Phil Starr

https://youtu.be/o6rBK0BqL2w Nice tune as well.

I've no information about any of the gear you are using, so you'll have to look it up for chapter and verse. This is a kind of primer/rule of thumb about pre amps. I hope it's enough to help you get things sorted. It's all about gain. A bass gives out around 1/1000 of a volt. A lot of pre amp circuitry operates at around 1/10th of a volt (a gain of 100 in other words) most power amp stages take about a volt so there will be another gain stage of about 10 somewhere. Obviously these are approximate figures and different manufacturers have used other options. Obviously you don't want to go into distortion and the Vpp (volts peak to peak) is just an expression of how high that stage can go before distorting, it doesn't say anything about gain. Some fx are designed to go into the guitar input and give out a few mV, most go into the fx loop at around 100mV, 1/10th of a volt. Others might be capable of driving a power amp direct. So, my guess is that you need something that gives you a little extra gain of about x10. For experimentation purposes a PA mixer will give you all the gain you need, beg, steal or borrow one of those, once you have the sound you wnat you can then look for a cheap pre=amp stage that will give you the little bit of extra gain you need. There will be fx capable of driving a power amp directly though, but you need clean gain not something that is designed to distort at higher levels.

Well sometimes it's good to try to help, that site with the circuit diagrams on is great, thanks. Unfortunately there's not much I can offer. The volume and tone is all handled electronically so you'd need to break in to the circuit after the master volume. On the plus side the noise is unlikely to be coming from the pots as they aren't directly handling the signal. My guess for the noise is that it is coming from the DSP as it is only happening when you play. Is it affected by which amp sims you use or the opto comp?

You are going back to a time when 25W was a high power speaker and 50W was pretty exotic. Speaker coils were wound onto paper and stuck down with very simple adhesives. At any higher power the paper singes and the glue melted letting the coil distort and rub against the magnet. A 100W amp cost several weeks wages. I remember Goodmans bringing out what was the first affordable 50W 15" speaker in this country. If you wanted a 100W speaker until then a 4xsomething was the only way. It also raised efficiency to the level where 100W was enough to fill a large auditorium. You are also going back to a time when speaker theory was pretty much unknown. Thiele re-published the theory we all use in 1971 and it took a while after that to be widely adopted by music speaker designers. Partly that's why there are so many bonkers designs from back then, no real theory. Basically the reason we don't use 4x15's is better glue

Yes, we should probably have started another thread though I am sure interested other people are looking in. I'd always recommend measuring the inside diameter of a pipe anyway. Then winISD will recalculate the length for you. You could look at three 75mm pipes as well they'd have a similar area to four of our smaller pipes. the other source of ports is the cardboard tubes that come inside rolls of carpet, carpet warehouses will let you have them for free as they are just waste for them. You could also try re-tuning the cab to 40Hz to see how that affects the excursion. Don't forget to check the maximum power chart too as you will lose out there at frequencies a little above the tuning frequency. I don't like octavers on the bottom notes, in most of the rooms I play they either can't be heard or excite room resonances and make the band sound bad. One way round this is to use a HPF filter like a Thumpinator that will take out the lowest frequencies but leave the octaver to thicken up the notes when you are playing higher up the neck.

The air velocity isn't the problem so much as the excursion which is causing it! Air velocity will lead to some noises from your ports but the excursion will destroy your speaker. The reality is that your speaker won't go down to 30Hz at high power and neither will most commercial speakers. If you check out most of the designs on the Eminence website you'll see they usually recommend using a high pass filter to stop subsonics getting to pretty much any compact design using a ported cab. In normal use there isn't usually too much signal coming out of the pups at these frequencies even with a 5'er but when cabs fail it is often down to someone pushing these frequencies through in an attempt to get 'more bass' 63mm tubing is ordinary gutter downpipe http://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-downpipe-68mm-x-2-5m-black/25256 Their 68 is the outside diameter.

Change the cable or at least the plug. The vibrations may be moving the plug around but it is the steady force of gravity that is pulling everything in one direction, so supporting the weight by tying the cable onto something is a good temporary fix. The jack socket may be damaged but there is a fair bit of spring on most sockets so there's a good chance it will be undamaged, but stop using the over sized jack. If you continue to have problems then you have to get a tech to change the socket for you. You can't really gig if you know your kit is unreliable. It shouldn't be much more than the cost of opening the amp up.

I don't see why a combo is difficult to comprehend, even though it isn't my normal choice the idea of plug and play with light weight and the sound of your choice is appealing, why not? I can't see Alex doing this soon though. I used to manufacture custom speakers back in the 70's. One of the retailers I supplied persuaded me to produce amps. The multiplication of both suppliers and processes killed what had been a growing business. I was completely under capitalized and that along with the increased workload finished me off. If you are small it makes much more sense to stick with what you are good at. Maybe if you are big too.

The reason it pounds better is the extra speaker, for all sorts of reasons. Cone area, speaker placement and sound reflections off the room. It almost certainly isn't anything to do with the amp as you now know.

[quote name='hrnn1234' timestamp='1480069131' post='3181403'] Well, evidently there's a difference between monkeys like me clicking buttons and people who knows their stuff! The bump you predicted is quite visible (colors are the same as in the previous graphic I posted). Still it seems the speaker could perform quite OK. I was thinking in getting the Beyma from Poland, as it would be a bit cheaper but, I could maybe attempt this build. Even if it fails horribly it would be a cheap lesson. And goes without saying, thanks all of you for sharing so much knowledge! [/quote] Ha ha, when I started it was all algebra and slide rules, every calculation took so long you tried not to make mistakes and were very conservative in what you did. Chienmortbb just recently described speaker design as being like squeezing a balloon, every time you tweak the design somewhere something pops out elsewhere. I think given the time involved and the expense of the cab I'd pay the extra for the Beyma, you can see what it gives you on your graphs, it is also better finished than the Thomann so you'd hope it my be a little longer lasting. [quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1480080755' post='3181510'] Just a quick addition to say I'm still happy with the version I built from the information/specs in this thread, and using the new version of the Beyma driver. In fact I'm twice as happy now as I was last time I posted, as I've finally finished the second cab, and used it at a practice the other day. I was taken aback by the difference the second cab makes. I wasn't really sure what to expect, and was anticipating perhaps a bit more volume. What I actually got was oodles more bass than I expected - I usually run my Ampeg PF500 with all the EQ at 12:00, but by the end of the evening I'd backed the bass off to about 09:00. I can safely say that there is absolutely nothing lacking in bottom end for a four string player, and I think I understand some of the comments from others who've played your prototypes, Phil, that the flat response might sound odd to people who are used to a bit of a mid hump from many commercial cabinets. [/quote] Yes I had the same experience, Two of them create a lovely creamy bass but I ended up rolling it back the same way so as not to excite room resonances and swamp the rest of the band. I glad you were happy enough to build a second cab.

That's as predicted 80l is a big box for a single 12, put it into a 50l box and you should see the hump appear. I'm assuming you put Le into WinISD which is why you get the roll off at higher frequencies. The software doesn't 'know' the frequency response of the speakers so it is just calculating a theoretical frequency response for the whole system. It's only really very accurate at the bottom end.

No, it looks good value, the W variant has a bigger magnet and a roll surround and it's resonant frequency is consequently lower. I wouldn't use it without a horn and crossover though, it cuts off early and has some nasty breakup resonances. I couldn't find any t/s parameters though. The A would be better for bass, the frequency response looks good and Xmax is excellent for a cheap speaker. The drawback is the smaller magnet which means damping (Qts) is quite high. I suspect in a practically sized cab it would have a significant hump in bass output around 100Hz. as many cheaper commercial bass speakers do. If you struggle to model the cab yourself let me know and I'll have a look for you

Guess Shaky is just another man in a covers band who wants to be doing originals

We have this in a pub we play in Taunton. Molly Malone's if you are of that parish. The solution I settled on was to angle the PA diagonally just a little to spill sound further down the pub but essentially to play to the room. The problem with everything rotated 90 degrees and a full mix through the PA is that the sound doesn't appear to come from the invisible band tucked round the corner. If you aren't set up for a fully mixed sound including miked drums it isn't worth investing for a one off gig, though that would undoubtedly be better. One obvious thing, operate the PA in mono everything panned centrally, if the speakers are pointed at different angles.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1478459929' post='3169184'] Give it time - unless there's a subtext you haven't shared, then there's no great hurry is there? If they're nice guys and you're enjoying yourself, keep it going. Don't forget that there is actually NO LAW against being in more than one band at the same time! Enjoy ... [/quote] I thought this was the right advice straight from the start. The fact that the guitarist obviously is prepared to work hard is a plus and them being nice guys a bonus too. I've never entirely enjoyed the music chosen by the rest of a covers band but if you play with others then 25% of the songs being 'you' is about par for the course. I've been out in the wilderness for the best part of a year, never again. Don't put out your dirty underwear until you have clean. the people are fun and the music undemanding, it isn't stopping you looking for a gigging band and you only need to make a decision once you have a clash. If you are bored stupid after a few more rehearsals then decide to leave. There's no rush. FWIW I joined just such a band three weeks ago, wished I'd done it earlier. This weekend I auditioned for a gigging band and I'm not sure I'd have got through the audition without the match fitness playing with the other guys gave me. Now I have a gigging band to work at and a fun band for fun. One day a week learning songs for one and six for the serious band, that's given me some impetus. If one band collapses then I still have places to go and if the fun band improves, and it is already, it might become my gigging band. I'm vowing never to have a single project again. I hope it isn't selfish, I'll never miss a practice, turn up unprepared or let anyone down for a gig and they can't do it without a bassist.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1478463499' post='3169234'] I've felt like this and I'm nearing that age, the trouble is I think it might be me that makes the bands dodgy! [/quote] Love it

All of the above. If like me you are a tinkerer nothing will stop you and we'll be happy to talk you through it. If you are someone who should never be let loose with a hammer then all you will do will be to downvalue your cab at best and the sensible advice would be to sell and buy what you want. How sensible is an 8x10 anyway

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1479735355' post='3178820'] Well partly it's a question of more displacement. Partly it's a question of a bigger low end - of whether another 2 x 10 ( 4 x 10 overall) will give me more low end overall then adding a 1 x 15 (2 x 10 + 1 x 15). A Stingray pumped through aluminium cones, with plenty of current gives me enough bite, but I really want to fatten up the lows a little when playing loud. TBH, having heard (on many occasions) Shellac's Bob Weston playing into his usual 2 x 400 Crown mono power amps > separate 15" Dietz cabs and again into an SVT 8 x 10, I'm not sure there's that much in it once you have surplus headroom and a big propagating surface. 2 x 2 x 10 would be easier to transport, that's for sure. [/quote] 2x2x10's are going to be enough to drown out the drums, you don't need any more volume than that. Mixing a 15 in will change your sound but unpredictably, 15's don't necessarily go deeper than 10's it depends upon the model. generally when you mix speakers you lose a little of the character of both and get a 'smoothed out' sound, but as I say it is unpredictable and you'll only find out after you buy.

Rich, I'm worrying about you. I don't think it's a problem playing just for the joy of it, I know at least as many musicians in your position as ones out there playing in bands every weekend. It's all good. You are right to realise it's about priorities and few of us can have everything we want, especially without a decent job. there's a wistfulness about your posts though. There's nothing to stop you from being an occasional band member. There's always people out there in the same place as you who need a bassist but will play anyway. I started playing with a bunch of teachers for example. They'd got too old for the Fri after school five a side/twenty over cricket in the summer and formed a 'band' just to unwind. They ran for years just for fun and the odd song at school 'do's'. I still currently play with a neighbour and another guitarist he's roped in. They'll practice without me if I can't make it, there's never any criticism, it's just fun. There's also an old (very old) university mate I play with four or five times a year. We hit the open mics sometimes but it's just fun to play and talk. He retires soon, we might form a band, go out as a duo or just keep doing what we do. I suspect you are way better than I am, there are people who would love to have your help and you need do no more than dip your toe in the water. Good luck

If you are going to play then you need to replace the strings, new strings transform the bass and make them more exciting to play. Generally speaking roundwounds are what you should go for as a beginner. The big choice is between steels which are generally brighter and nickels which are more mellow. There is overlap though, not all steels and nickels sound the same. Steels tend to be rougher on your fingers and nickels hold their tone longer usually. The market leader steels (rotosound) really don't hold their tone long though some people like the tone of old strings. I'd say go for some decent nickels and see how you get on, then when the time comes to change go for some steels and then you'll know. Homing in on 'your' strings is just one of the pleasures that await you and we can all get really nerdy about it. Think of anglers discussing their favourite lures.

I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone else has said, all worth investigating but I want to open up another possibility. You mention your hearing early on. If your hearing is suffering a bit. (Who on Basschat isn't?) You also talk about altering your tone a lot. This is ringing alarm bells because surely you ought to set tone for the band, not for your own monitoring. You need to sort this in a way that works for both. Firstly boosting the bass and treble will always make picking yourself out harder not easier. It's the mids we need to pick out our tone from the mix and boosting those or cutting bass in particular will help you pick yourself out more easily. If you are boosting bass to get the sound you need for the band/audience then hold off and trust the P to deliver in the mix even if it sounds thin to you. The sound signatures of the P and J are very different, hearing loss if you have any is likely to hit a few limited frequencies, mainly in the mids and highs. Again it is the mids that are crucial in distinguishing sounds. Another factor might be the Quarterpounder. All of these overwound pups have a high inductance that cuts the top end at 6dB/octave above a certain frequency, simply an inevitable physical consequence of all those turns of wire. If that is at a frequency you are already missing a little... Two strategies you can try before reaching for the credit card are pointing a cab at your ears a little more or shifting a little of your sound into the PA (or a little more if that's what you do already). Turn up the mids/highs on your monitors to get more articulation and the boost the bass through the PA by the same amount to restore your sound. Or buy some in ears. Oh, I didn't like the sound of the TC and went for an MB Tube which I love, mainly because I never have to touch it, it just makes my bass loud.

You could try feeding a signal straight[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] into the fx return next time the fault materialises ideally from something like a Sansamp with a bit of gain. This would tell you whether the power amp section is still working. It probably is because of the hiss but worth a check, apart from the fx loop problem i can't suggest anything simple as a solution. Intermittent faults are the worst.[/font][/color]

It would be worth ringing Ashdown who have always been good at customer support, even when I rang them when their offices were flooded a few years back!

Eminence do make custom drivers for others and although there might be saving to be made the ratio between lightweight neo drivers and heavier ceramic ones would remain. There's also the question of demand. As well as weight there is also the question of size, Why carry a 200l cab when a 50l one does the job? Why take something that needs a van for transport when you could use a cab that fits in your boot. The reality is that modern speakers handle more power and amplifier watts are cheap. 500W into a 2x12 is going to be louder than a drummer and easy to carry. That's not to say there is no place for a lightweight 4x10, just that only a few people are going to want one and so only the boutique manufacturers are going to be able to make money out of building them. That makes them niche and expensive.

You are spoiled for choice. Playing along with songs of your choice and the right level of difficulty has long been one of the ways of practicing, It's fun but easy to persuade yourself you are better than you really are. Once you have a song nailed drum machines are great tutors. Keeping great time and counting bars are the things that benefit and you can develop improvisation skills just by changing the beat but keeping the same chord structure as a song you know well. Learning fast songs at a reduced speed and building up tempo is good as is repetition of a tricky lick to get it nailed and smooth There's so much stuff on the internet including some decent online tutors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic1yWJNhxXQ https://www.youtube.com/user/devinebass https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGyPWBc1GFIxRaoWrfR_vRA Don't forget Ultimate Guitar which has midi files of many of their tabs that you can play back at any speed and mix the bass right up and everything else down. I find the best way to do most of this is with a simple mixer and headphones which will take the output from any source with a headphone outlet and mix your bass and that signal. I use the Zoom B1ON which also has a tuner and a built in drum machine https://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-b1on-bass-effects-pedals/104730, it does loads of other stuff too