Phil Starr

I'd go for the advice of trying other stuff out, and using the advice of your buddy if he's willing to go out with you when you try. If you like the Hartke then you shouldn't just dismiss it. I have a couple of Hartke's and they are OK without being outstanding in terms of build quality. Very happy with the sound though. The thing is sometimes a bass amp just suits the acoustics of a room well. The shopkeeper might have used the Hartke because it sounded good in his shop. Make the Hartke the rig to beat and compare other rigs with it. If Korg are a problem then it might be worth thinking of buying used. A troublesome guarantee is worthless and a good used model will save you money. There's nothing inside the LH or HA series amps that a reliable tech can't fix so if you do have problems (I've only had one in six years) then you can get it fixed easily enough without unreliable distributors.

My band has broken up so I'm looking for a new band. There's plenty of ads out there, but what I don't get is why people are so bad at getting back to you. I've sent out a few emails to people advertising but over half of them don't even bother replying. These are ads that have gone up in the last few days, why advertise if you aren't organised enough to even send a 'sorry, post filled' reply. In other cases I've had a reply and asked about the set list, where do you practice, etc. only to have the emails dry up. A female singer who wanted a band who couldn't be bothered to tell me what style of music she wanted to sing, bands who went quiet as soon as I started talking about meeting and jamming/auditioning. I've had similar experiences when I was recruiting, people who would answer with an initial email who went quiet when a set list or a try out was mentioned. People who send you a phone no and then don't answer. It's bad manners of course. 'Sorry I've changed my mind' or the music's just not for me/ we've found someone else is easy enough to say politely and just allows everyone to move on but it's also pretty stupid, if you want a bass player you'd plan auditions before you advertised wouldn't you. If you have several applicants you'd organise to listen to several of them and pick the best match for your band. Is this just a run of bad luck or have others had the same experiences, is it just that musicians are disorganised?

Always a problem with Beyma and i looked hard for a decent alternative for that reason in the end the specs and end result made me stick with Beyma, I had to wait 6 weeks myself. The importers are LMC audio http://www.lmcaudio.co.uk/acatalog/LMC_Web_Catalogue_12__Drivers_53.html they don't have any SM212's in stock, but they are on order and Beyma are making a delivery 'before the end of the month' they are listed at £68.63 +VAT

Barnes and Mullins are now listing these for order http://www.bandm.co.uk/amplifiers-and-cabinets/bass-amp-heads.html

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457942726' post='3003098'] As different as amps that generally use the same power module can be... :-) [/quote]Fair point but personally I don't think the output stage is the biggest factor. I suspect the lack of 'heft' is down to inadequate power supplies and the 'tone' of the amp is down to tone shaping in the pre amp stages. My feeling is that it's all in the implementation, class D/SMPS power supplies are still in the early days and people are still rushing out 'me too' products, often with a mass of digital processing going on. Over time people will stop obsessing over lightweight and will buy on the basis of sound alone. Manufacturers will have to up their game in this area and the killer amps of the future will probably be class D.

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1457902484' post='3002909'] I recently rekindled my love affair with Trace Elliot after an extended search for "[i]that elusive sound[/i]" - found out that it doesn't come in a Class D package - only in equipment with "Trace Elliot" written on it!! Can't beat a good TE!! [/quote] [quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1457911269' post='3003027'] To the O/P, I'm not sure we're comparing like for like but none-the-less, that's a lovely rig.. A number of people on here have gone light cab / trace head route which apparently gives the best of both worlds. Personally, I'm happy with my heavy head and (reasonably) lightweight SWR boxes. Lightweight / compact / Class D doesn't interest me as I gig less than 10 (probably 5 at this rate) times a year, I don't have a glass back and am not ever persuing 'that' tone as I feel I already have it. [/quote] [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1457899429' post='3002855'] Are you comparing a 2x10 rig to a 2x15 rig? If the latter sounds bigger, I'm not surprised. [/quote] I think you have the whole argument wrapped up here. If you like the TE sound then TE is the way to go. It's coloured but if it's your favourite colour then everything else is a compromise. the same applies to Ampegs, valve amps or any other classic sound you might be after. There's nothing intrinsically wrong about Class D/lightweight amps but they are all different so they need to be auditioned just like any other amp All other things being equal small speakers will never be as loud as big speakers and cone area is important. Eight Barefaced one 10's will be louder than a single one. Taking a relatively low powered TC amp and using a 2x10 was always going to be at the bottom end of what is usable. Through a 2x15 it might have done what you wanted or a more powerful class D might have worked with the Eden cab. Neither was going to sound like your TE rig.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1457615725' post='3000135'] Aye, if the f'kers ever get back to you. I for one am getting real tired of being ignored and I'm not assertive enough to do the repeat emailing, just think we must be crap and I don't want to pester them further. Does nothing to dispel the perception that certain cities are like little private clubs, and unless you know someone, you won't even get a first look before your email gets deleted. Either that or as I previously alluded to, we're actually crap. [/quote] Be reassured, no-one knows you are crap until you've played their venue The problem is that there are so many bands chasing so few spots and with email it's easy for a venue to get hundreds of speculative emails. Most venues book up 6 months worth of bands at a time and will spend maybe one morning booking for the next six months, an email will be forgotten unless it arrives on that day. They don't really listen to CD's either in most cases. They'll also book back bands they know are reliable, because bands are less reliable than builders and most venues will hold on to people who do the job with the least hassle. You need to build a personal relationship, it's also worth getting a card in there as they lose those less quickly than emails or CD's. Most of our gigs came from cancellations by the regular band. If you put on a good show they'll ask you back, it's that first booking that is hard.

Only one site I know that gets us regular gigs is Lemonrock, Unfortunately it is a bit geographically limited, it started in St Albans and took over a West Country website early on so is strong there. It is expanding across the whole of the South West and around the home counties and is starting to expand in the North East. If you go onto the site statistics http://www.lemonrock.com/statistics.php then you can see it is expanding outwards and there's a chance it might become the 'go to' site across the country. It hasn't reached North Wales though so no use to the OP. The trouble is that it is so easy to set up a website and there are too many 'me too' versions. If nobody visits them then they are useless and with so many packing in to a limited field few are reliable ways of finding gigs or bands. All you really need in the absence of Lemonrock in your area is a website where people can see and hear your band, then I'm afraid you have to use all the old fashioned methods to direct them there.

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1456962822' post='2994148'] Wood can vary considerably in grain, colouration, density and imperfections within the same plank let alone between species. To me it looks like one of the many species sold as "Mahogany". That's based on colour and grain - no idea about the species unfortunately. [/quote]I'd go with this, I've seen a lot of sapele and meranti sold as 'mahogany' and the truth is that they cut down a lot of forest trees without anyone identifying them and mixed woods can end up in the same batches in the worst cases. A lot of tropical hardwoods have a reddish colour and this sort of grain, which depends as much on how the timber is cut and the growing conditions as which species. My experience of a good timber yard is that they will help you identify stuff even if they haven't sold it to you. Even then they may not be completely accurate, tropical forests contain an awful lot of species!

I'm probably not very far from your dad. I started playing bass from scratch at the age of 55. I know I'm not alone in these pages. To start off the mechanics took me a long time to get on top of, probably best to start with either a pick or finger style. The other think is that it is difficult to do much practice at first, you can't do much so doing everything you know ten times over only takes a few minutes. Whether you are going down a formal theory route or just learning by ear and tab spend at least some time doing something rewarding. Choose a simple song your dad can play all the way through, preferably one he likes. I started with Gloria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0aHmMfZTEw followed by U2's With or Without You and Gimme Some Lovin' Secondly the best thing for any bass player is playing with other people. I can't imagine anything better than playing with my son, but playing with anyone else is just a blast if you never expected to be doing it. If you play in bands you have all the contacts to make that happen. I found that playing along with CD's and tab worked well. I found the Hal Leonard series good, that's where Gloria and Gimme Some Lovin came from. Wish him luck from me and tell him to stick with it, it took me six months before I could do anything useful on bass but it will come in the end.

Just a last update in case my comments about 'underwhelmed by the sound' is putting anyone off. I gigged the Tube 500 this weekend for the first time. January and February have been a bit dead and we had a pub cancel on us so it's been a long wait. Firstly for the class D sceptics and the 'heft' merchants there is no shortage of volume or bass, deep or otherwise from the amp. Secondly for those wondering about the tube pre amp I gigged with the balance firmly towards the solid state input, but the difference really is so subtle that I don't really think the audience would have noticed. I could afford the extra £50 but so far I don't think I'd miss the tube pre amp, early days but it's very likely if you went for a Little Mark you'd be perfectly happy. I think what I've not liked is the midrange character of the MB amp and I've missed the graphic on my old amp. I find graphics very intuitive to use with my science teacher approach to everything. You've really got to learn the sound of the tone controls on the MB pre amp and for me the bass controls aren't centred on the best frequencies. Boosting anything below 50Hz just ends up exciting room resonances IME and the critical frequencies for a bassier sound seem to be 80-150Hz, so a 40Hz centre is too low for my liking and the low mid control is too high for me. In fact I ended up with the controls set flat as most MB users seem to do. I then set the VPF (middle suckout) to about 10.00 o'clock and added just a touch of VLE (Vintage loudspeaker emulation) at about 7-8.00 o'clock. This gave me a fairly dark sound with a nice solid thump, much less lively and characterful than my usual sound but probably better suited to most of the ancient rock covers I'm forced to play. Think P-bass with dirty old strings, this is with my American Deluxe P and through my 15" Deltalite based cab. The end result was a less bass forward sound than I usually run (I do the mixing) but I have to confess a much better overall sound for the band as a whole than we often get. In fact the overall sound was probably the best I've recorded, which may be down to room acoustics and the placing of my little Olympus recorder but was noticed by my better half out in the audience. I'd also done an hour's run through in the morning of the gig and got a really nice, more modern tone out of my 12" cab with the P. So in conclusion this is definitely a decent giggable amp, even if I would still swap for the sound of my Hartke 3500. However weight, and the reliability of a newer amp make up for that. I've a long way to go before I can just dial up the tone I want and the big lesson is that reviewing an amp or even auditioning one is so dependant upon what you use it with. Different amps, cabs, basses and room acoustics will complement each other or fight each other so take all the advice you can but take it with a pinch of salt as well. Who knows if I get on top of the eq I might even get to love this little beastie. Many thanks to all those who've offered advice. Phil

Depends upon the gig but if it's a long way from home or a big event I take my Hartke kickback as spare, it works as my monitor and has a DI out so can feed the PA. the rest of the time I have the mixer amp salvaged from a Yamaha Stagepas set up. This gives me a four channel mixer, spare PA amp and spare bass amp if needed. I suppose in an emergency even one of the guitards could use it with a pedal or two. It's my gigging swiss army knife So far I've never needed either.

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1456909575' post='2993348'] I love Cant Stand me Now, but not sure the BVs are strong enough. Was wondering if Don't Look Back into The Sun would work? [/quote] Never persuaded my lot to play it but yeah, why not? God I miss playing that stuff, just good fun.

Check out The King Is Dead from the Decemberists, their best album to date IMO, not a duff song on there. If you like Creedence then the long Road Home https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTQCNntGEs&list=PLf6-wYiizn9POW9iD7ev3PiQYb4B6CfWp is a good start.

Persevere with Bang Bang, it went down well for us even though the initial reaction was 'I don't know that one' it is a fun song and the audience will get it. If you've got the second vocal then Can't Stand Me Now, Libertines would go well, good chorus song. Loads of Greenday songs that are just as well known as Basket Case, I always wanted to do Holiday and American Idiot goes a storm. When September Ends and Boulevard if you want a change of tempo. None of those off piste though. how about 40 days and 40 nights, The Enemy?

[quote name='MarkG3' timestamp='1456417441' post='2988844'] The stacked is interesting, my problem with that is I like running the pickup really low so the strings and pick don't hit them so not sure with the stacked if I could get it low enough. So understood that everyone's take will be different and different styles etc but out of the three which has the most bass/low mids with the least treble? [/quote] Without knowing about those pups in particular it should be fairly simple. The more turns in the coil the greater the impedance and the more that will cut your treble. The more turns the greater the output and the greater the DC resistance so just go for the one with the highest impedance/resistance. Of course you may find you don't want it that dark but the only way of telling is to try.

Hmmm, I've just bought a Tube 500 and I'm so far unconvinced. The 28 day return is coming up so I better make my mind up. It sounds OK, plenty of volume and well, OK. That's it really. I much prefer the sound of my ancient HA3500. The MB is clean and punchy but has a slightly boxy sound to it which I can eq down but which remains somehow. Interestingly it works much better with my J bass than my American Deluxe P and with my 15's better than my 12's or 10's. Unfortunately we've had a quiet period for gigs in the last four weeks so I've yet to use it in anger. It also sounds better with my B1ON feeding it, but I don't particularly like pedals normally. I bought it because I tried another BC'ers LM111 (thanks Stevie) with my bass and speakers and that sounded great, as did Stevie with his band and his own rig. Of course I've had years getting exactly what I want out of the HA3500 and it's the sound I love but I'm a little underwhelmed by the MB Tube so far.

it looks like they are saying they contain the same speaker but one is in a smaller cab. Most of a speakers 'character' is down to the mids and highs and these will be the same. Putting a speaker into a reduced volume will change the bass response. If it is 'undersized' then it will have two effects on the bass response. There will be an increased output in the upper bass around 100Hz and then the bass response will reduce and roll off more quickly below that so the output will be reduced in the deep bass. Most bass cabs do this because a) the sound is quite pleasing the cab is easier to carry c) it's cheaper and smaller. It's also the sound we are used to hearing. We don't hear deep bass very well so most people hear the shrunken cab as 'bassy' or 'punchy' whereas the reality is there is more deep bass from the larger cab. that's what they are trying to describe.

It's good if you are playing covers to talk about these things so good on your guitarist. My problem with band members is that so many, guitarists in particular, don't ever listen to the originals properly, they'll listen to a verse and chorus work out the chords and play that, ignoring any fills, pauses, extra bars etc removing a lot of what makes the song more interesting then they'll tell you the song is dull! I've no objection to playing the song differently. In fact I think as a covers band you should either go for a note for note interpretation or deliberately move it away from the original. I just think it should be changed as part of a thought through process rather than a couldn't be bothered approach. If it's just a little off it sounds naff to me, as if you basically don't care. As to All right Now my band told me to play the Christina Aguilera version which I duly learned, only to find i was the only one who had bothered to listen and break it down. So if you ever stumble across me playing right through the song.....

There's nothing inherently wrong with class D amps. Make a decent recording of an Ampeg/Trace Elliot/70's valve amp and play it back through a really good PA and if it had 'heft' then that will still be there, much louder if the engineer likes it that way. The PA will probably be operating on class D amps but they may be capable of 000's of watts. So it isn't class D per se, they certainly don't need to be gutless and they'll handle any amount of bass. Lack of 'heft' then isn't to do with class D. I don't like the term because it is meaningless but so many people perceive a lack of something. So what are they missing? Well it could be distortion as some people have said or it could be a non flat frequency response, but emulators should be able to get most of that back. The plugins used in recordings do a fairly good job nowadays, they may not exactly match an Ampeg stack but I'd venture that most of us are capable of being fooled once it is in the mix. So, if I'm right what we are talking about is the implementation of class D. Plus perhaps some placebo effect (if an amp is heavy enough it will have heft!!!). With class D the designer can offer you almost limitless power at low cost in the amplifier stages. The question is how much capacity to put into the power supply. You are probably only going to need it for peaks, too much power and you'll be blowing the speakers. Why put an expensive power supply in if you are only needing it for a few milliseconds now and again? For PA amps it is much simpler, distortion is the enemy, mainly they operate in a predictable environment so an amp that delivers 300W continuously but will peak at say 1000W makes good sense. I suspect a lot of the power output stages of the current crop of lightweight heads are borrowed from modules developed for PA with a bass orientated preamp/tonestack grafted on. It may well be that some or all of the top five brands of lightweight amp all suffer some restrictions in their abilities to deliver continuous power built into their power supplies or their protection circuits. I can't see how Class D amps are inherently worse than AB amps though.

I'd want to be very sure they weren't stabbing the previous band members in the back. If it's time to move on and they have talked it through with them then fine, I just can't work with people I don't respect. Band members don't need to be best mates but playing with a bunch of S***s is no fun. As to covers, you just have to make your mind up. Play them with good will, as well as you can and you'll get great audience reaction and regular gigs. It's really good fun IMO. If you are going to resent the songs then why play in a covers band?

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1456303254' post='2987467'] So if you don't need a cab with a given amp does this mean you can connect a cab rated below the minimum recommended ampedence. [/quote] Nooooo! No cab means an very high/infinite impedance and so no current from the amp Low impedances draw very high currents potentially damaging the amp.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1456303609' post='2987473'] I believe the three Musketeers are doing a 2x10 build soon so wait a little while and you will benefit from their knowledge and experience. [/quote] Happy to give anyone a preview if you just want dimensions.

If you are going for Neo then the basslites are a good recommendation. I see you've found the Eminence website designs. As you can see from there the bass at -10dB does depend upon the size of the cab, and you'll need Bills bigger cab to get that. My opinion is that it's not the most important thing for playing live. Don't look at the Fane Sovereign 10's the 10-125 has a terrible set of specs and the 10-300 just sound really dull as well as being quite heavy. I've a soft spot for Fane but the sovereign 10's aren't good.