Phil Starr

Just looked at the link. The Alto's won't really be 500W as that will be shared between the horn and the bass speaker. With a 2.5" voice coil the speaker will handle no more than 300W if you are lucky, less at low frequencies so think of this as the equivalent of a cheapish 300W bass combo. Alto sound OK but aren't really anything like top of the range, they are kind of best of the cheapies. The plastic cab is likely to resonate quite a lot with bass going through.

Firstly be reassured it isn't a bad idea or even a new one. It's no different from using a stage monitor either really. having given long complicated answers to this question in the past I've thought of a simple one. The bass speaker in the PA speaker is pretty much like the bass speaker in a dedicated bass rig. Cheap ones won't handle the power or deep bass well. Don't expect to get similar quality for much less than the cost of a bass speaker and amp. Any saving will only come because they are made in greater numbers. The bass output is limited by cone area in exactly the same way. So a single 10" cab won't do it, or probably all but the very best 12's, so you are going to need a pair probably, though you could add a sub. Bass speakers should be optimised for bass and often are voiced for bass. PA speakers may have a gentle roll off to give better clarity elsewhere or optimised in other ways for full range sound. They will almost always have a flat response which may not be to your liking, though i like the sound they give whenever I use mine. Like buying anything the best advice is to try before you buy to see if you like the sound.

In the early days of solid state amps a few designs would go into oscillation (like feedback/howlround but electronically, inside the electronics) If no load was connected they'd overheat and break in this state. My Exposure hi fi amp warns about this. I haven't seen that for a long time but I wonder if Orange are simply being careful, a bit like the 'may contain traces of nuts' warnings.

[quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1455911944' post='2983651'] Oh dear. Did you have words? [/quote]A few �� We were double booked though with a second gig about ten miles away with an hour between this one ending and the next starting. So mainly we just smiled,did our thing and shot off. The lesson was never to trust everything to a sound engineer without talking to them first. This was a festival gig and we were the fourth band on. She had grabbed the nearest lead to plug into the di and it had been on a vocal mic, hence the gating.

[quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1455831958' post='2982894'] I can't imagine there is a venue on earth that has a capacity of 2500 with monitors worse than your average 500 watt bass rig? The highest live volumes I've encountered have been practice rooms and the quietest have ALWAYS been the biggest venues! I've used a 1x12 cab in front of a few thousand people with no problems at all. [/quote]and that's how it should work! However I've had different experiences including one sound engineer who put a noise gate on my monitor with a 1sec delay on it. I got some strange looks from the rest of the band who missed the first note or two of every entrance!

Friend of mine has a mkIII with a matching 2x15. He's a skinny string player with no need for it. If anyone is interested I'll ask for a price.

[quote name='The Twickerman' timestamp='1455801674' post='2982546'] Hi all, until now I've only ever done pub-sized gigs, but later this year I'm doing a tour of larger venues (up to about 2,500 I think). I know I only need the back line so that I can hear myself, but I also know that, even in pubs, hearing yourself when you're the bass player can be difficult. The long wavelength of the deeper notes mean that room nodes are very problematic. I don't know if this problem might actually be less apparent in larger venues (I suspect it might), but I am wondering if my 115W Valve head/15" speaker combination will be sufficient to hear myself. I wonder if simply swapping to a 2x10" (with a horn) and ensuring it's drivers are directed towards my head(!) might be a wise "upgrade". Any comments? Thanks! - Nick. [/quote] Hi Nick, we probably need a few more details. First of all a budget? Secondly what sort of music you are playing and how your PA is being done? Are you relying upon the venues where it will be very variable or are you hiring in a PA with engineers. If the latter than you should make an early appointment to talk to the sound engineers who are going on tour with you, no point in spending if they are going to put you through the front line monitors. You need to have some input too, are you happy to let them control your sound or would you like to control at least your on stage sound? Assuming the worst, that the PA will be variable, then I'd go for a rig that will cover everything pretty much, and something that will be reliable, Having problems in front of 50 people is embarrassing but in front of 1000........ If you want something that covers all bases then something modular and at least 500W might be in order, hence the popularity of 4x10's. I'd also be looking for something with a reasonably clean flat response without necessarily too much lower bass extension in the speaker department. In bigger spaces you have more opportunity to find room resonances you didn't know existed. It's worth thinking about having an amp with a post eq output if you want some control of your sound. Most sound engineers like a DI straight off your bass, for the perfectly good reason that if the amp goes wrong they still have a signal, and that signal will be the cleanest they can get. They may then also mic your cab and mix that with the clean signal. if you want to control your sound and have a load of pedals you don't have to accept that, but talk to them and be assertive but prepared to compromise. Good luck, you'll get more detailed suggestions once people know a little more.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1455745363' post='2982131'] Phil is it the usual 250W into 8 or 500W into 4 with an extension cab? [/quote]If it is the same as the original kickback it is just into the internal speaker. You have to unplug that to go into an external speaker. My guess is that the internal speaker will be 4ohms and that the power will be limited by the current from the power supply. So I'd guess it's 250W into 4ohms but it's just a guess. Hartke just say 500W peak 250W rms.

Well from the manual they are actually 250Wrms, so only a little more powerful than the originals 3dB. There's nothing to indicate how efficient the speakers are so that the sound could be louder or the same. I still use my old one for smaller gigs and it struggles but just about does the job so an extra 3dB would help. Weight is 13kg for the 12" version so lighter than the old ones. Here's the link http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/combos/kickback-combos/kickbackkb12/ I'd be interested too if anyone gets round to finding one to try. The Fender Rumble combo is getting lots of love here.

Another for the Zoom B1ON. I don't have any problem with headphone levels with cheap Sennheisers HD201 more expensive HD595's or any of the other half dozen phones I've tried. Basically it's a little louder than the iPod, which doesn't mean it'll work with everything but it's OK with most. One thing you may want to consider is looking for something battery powered, there's enough leads already and it's nice to be able to sit anywhere. I get about 5 days practice out of rechargeables with my B1ON

Hi all. the plan is to have a cutting list and a step by step guide. The bracing will be drawn up later. I switched the design at the last minute. Mainly this was for two reasons; the slot ported cab was difficult to construct without a decent set of clamps and we found a significant resonance in the frequency response in the slot ported cab down to the speaker operating into a square section almost cubical space. In the end the tube ported cab was easier to build and since the whole idea was to make this as simple as possible I decided to go for the tube ported cab. The unbraced panels in the 18mm cab vibrated a whole lot less than the braced panels in the 12mm cab. The bracing adds a layer of complexity and so I'm going for the 18mm cab with some minimal bracing. I haven't braced an 18mm cab so I want to try that before finalising the bracing. Copying the 12mm bracing would add too much to the weight and be over the top for what are inherently fairly rigid panels due to their relatively small size. Basically I didn't give any details of bracing to the guys doing the drawings but they can go in later. I'll put enough into the write up for people to be able to build a slot ported cab or a 12mm cab if they prefer, it just won't be what I'd recommend. In the meantime if you haven't already seen it I suggest you have a look at this thread, where Beer of the Bass has built a very similar cab with the Eminence 12A-2's in it. Well worth a look http://basschat.co.uk/topic/276469-a-pair-of-1x12-cabs/

Any energy used in vibrating the cab itself is wasted energy of course. Since the amount of energy absorbed is frequency dependant the cab vibration will result in changes in the frequency response and a resonating cab is going to have an uneven frequency response. Most speaker designers are going to be designing to get as smooth a response as possible and even if you are going for a tailored response then it is hard to predict what a cab will do to the response so tailoring a cab by making it resonant is pretty nearly impossible. However non-flat cabs and music sometimes work well together. Guitarists go for highly coloured cabs to get their 'sound'. In a sense a lot of 60's and 70's cabs were 'experimenting' with this as they were often put together with very little theoretical knowledge and then just tested by playing through them. Some of those designs still continue and people love their sound, so yes theoretically and in practice there can be benefit in a non-flat, resonant design. Currently the trend in boutique bass cabs is to make them as flat as possible. Personally I think that is the way to go, with cab and amp simulators getting better and cheaper all the time. With a flat cab and some electronics you can have all the sounds from clean to Ampeg with a couple of lightweight cabs. Finally on bracing, There will come a point where bracing makes little difference to what you can actually hear, and all that bracing adds weight. Alex Claber has said here that the main aim of his bracing was rigidity rather than weight reduction which comes as a side benefit. Thick panels on small cabs are inherently rigid and mass is a useful damper of resonances so for a small cab you can have a successful speaker with minimal bracing. It's also critical how you do the bracing, you can simply shift the frequency of panel vibration to higher and more irritating frequencies in the worst cases. I think what BFM has said about a well designed thin walled braced cab being better than a poorly designed thick walled cab is absolutely fair but that adds considerable expense in manufacture. It might be better to spend that money on the drive unit and stick to a simple cab at a particular price point.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1455281383' post='2977733'] What's wrong with Artexed ceilings I'd like to know! [/quote] Hmm wonder if Stevie would like his cab in white

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1455225513' post='2977323'] Here we go: After a bit of experimentation I found that I much prefer the smoother foam rollers that came with my pound shop paint tray to the honeycomb textured ones which Blue Aran sell with the paint. The cheap foam rollers produce a nice fine texture, while the texture from the Blue Aran rollers reminds me a little too much of Artexed ceilings! [/quote] I agree, I managed to get a linen like effect with the cheap foam rollers. The Blue Aran ones are meant to give you the effect the big boys get by spraying their cabs. It's worth trying longer pile rollers too, the ones designed for emulsion paint, they give you a texture in between the two.

Glad you are feeling more positive. Just want to add my own encouragement to join a band. It doesn't have to be a gigging band, just a bunch of mates (or new friends) who get together to make music. I was lucky in that I was invited to join in with some friends who jammed every Friday after work as a wind down. I'd only been playing 3months and it had taken me that long just to learn to finger pick a steady eight beat, strictly on the root notes. (think With or Without You all on the E string). I've never felt so nervous in my life, I nearly fled) 3 hours later my life had changed, we'd made music! I'm still not great, well not very good at all after 7 years playing, but I gig most weekends now I've played in several bands and still can't believe my luck. Just making music in private with a couple of other people is a joy in itself. If you want an easy first step then go along to an open mic or two. You don't have to take your bass just listen, you'll hear some rubbish and some things that are pretty good. When you are ready see if you can pick just one song and ask if you can join in. Good luck

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1455178723' post='2976622'] I used to teach for a living. If you want to PM me I'll be happy to offer a bit of free advice about practice techniques, routines and schedules. No agenda, no pressure, no charge. [/quote] Does that apply to all of us

Well done on this, I'm confident you'll be pleased with the sound. I ended up with a 50Hz tuning too so I think that will be the best decision. Can't wait until you've tried it.

[quote name='The Hat' timestamp='1455042138' post='2975365'] I actually have a small Kustom amp, nothing special but like I say I know feck all about em. I'm intrigued by the B1on, sounds right up my street [/quote] [quote name='The Hat' timestamp='1455046123' post='2975425'] Are these effects boxes simple to use ? I look at some of em and I wouldn't have a clue what buttons to press [/quote] You know the sound of a practice amp then I started with a similar Peavey practice amp, OK for the price and size but as soon as you move on to something with decent speakers and a bit more power you realise what you've been missing. The effects boxes are simple enough to use, I just scrolled through the pre set sounds of my B1ON (ten banks of ten) until I found the sound I wanted. Now for practice it stays on one setting and it's just plug and play. One button turns on the drum machine/metronome and pressing both pedals at once turns the tuner on and off. The rest is fairly intuitive but you can keep it as simple as you like.

Yes, plan the flow of your sets and groups of three of four are about right especially if people are dancing. Most people seem to need a rest after about 10-12 mins so three songs with no gaps will keep them on the floor. Any gap longer than a few seconds gets them looking for their drink or starting up a conversation/checking their phone so gaps are a killer. I like to plan around what I think the audience ought to be doing and how to draw them in.

If you are happy to practice through headphones the B1ON gets another vote, they do everything you could want. For a basic little amp you could do worse than the Hartke Kickbacks, I use a 10 and it has a proper grown up sound which a lot of little practice amps lack. About £100-120 used. Not used the Roland Cube but the Cube guitar amps do the job so I'd expect the cube to be fine too. I wouldn't bother with a really small practice amp though, the sound is really not very satisfying so you end up practicing less which is kind of the point.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1455016130' post='2974969'] As a newcomer to this thread and with far too little spare time to read 550 posts on what is apparently a one-off design for a small bass speaker cab, can anyone offer a brief digest, ideally less than 3000 words? [/quote]Fair comment, but we've all had fun That's what we're working on now, the hopefully final phase where we actually write up the design as a 'how to' guide with some pics and drawings.

I love Basschat. There are four people freely giving up their time to produce plans and instructions for the build and just making it happen. Is it bass players? Many thanks to Garry, Luke, Marco and Ian.

Go for the B1ON even if you never use the effects it's a battery powered practice machine. Drums, metronome, tuner iPod mixing. I'm off to sit next to Mrs S, whilst she watches 'Call the Midwife' I'll be rocking out silently with the headphones on.

All my personal stuff goes into the bass case, including a folding stand. I run PA for the band. Leads go (all cable tied) into canvas bags, one type per bag. (mains, kettle leads, mic, jack) Seems messy but the soft canvas bags pack into all the odd spaces in the car you can't fit hard cases into and I just gather up the bags so it's a one hand carry. The bags are cheap too http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ladders+%26+Storage/d110/Tool+Bags/sd3241/Canvas+Tool+Bag/p66762

Quick update (I know, I'm a child with a new toy) I tried out the Tube 500 initially with my J, a Highway One fitted with a J-East Retro, I was frankly underwhelmed. When I switched to my American Deluxe P Bass last night it sounded great, lovely clean sounds, then I switched to my MIJ Thunderbird and that really came alive, much nicer sounds than with my old Hartke more articulation and just more detail. It seems some amps are just a much better match to one bass than another. I started with the Jazz because it is my best sounding bass, well so I thought until I heard the T'bird through the Mark Bass The band are in for a shock next gig. Now I just have three more speaker options to run through.......