Phil Starr

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473787852' post='3133155'] I'm not saying all of the tone of the instrument is determined by the pickup. Clearly, woods, construction etc make a huge difference be instrument acoustically but surely that all becomes redundant once you use the pickups? Prime example, if you have a jazz and solo the bridge you wouldn't retain the low end response and resonance that the wood type brings to the acoustic tone. It would be manipulated by the voicing of the pickup (if it transferred into the pickup in the first place) surely? [/quote] I'm not sure what you are saying here. The pickup will respond to the bit of string above it, filtered by the inductance of the coil and the capacitance of the wiring etc. How that string vibrates will be affected by anything attached to it, the neck and body of the bass and the termination of the strings, the nut or the fret/fingerboard and bridge. So though I've probably oversimplified all of these will affect the tone.

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1473669897' post='3132024'] Without wanting to stir the hornets nest, I'd first suggest trying different cabinets. Maybe the TH won't play ball with them because of their own short-comings. Speaking from experience of MarkBass 10's, I'm afraid that I found the 2x10 cabinets lacking in punch and nasal! Really sorry, I know that's not what you want to hear! Exceptional configurations I have tried with the TH500 include the Berg Cn212 that easily held it's own un-miked - a single Hartke 4.5XL and my current favourite and go to cabinet, the Big Twin II. My only disclaimer is that most amplifiers run out of steam eventually and if you are trying to get your amp to deliver more volume than the cabinets are actually capable of outputting (Sensitivity and SPL), then yes you will lack punch. Get more sensitive cabinets or add more speakers, because a bigger amplifier (say going from 500 watts to 800 watts) will actually only add a few decibels to your overall volume. [/quote] [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1473670848' post='3132033'] This definitely isn't a dig at you Dood, but it's funny how, in this this world of micro amps, we're used to talking about upgrading from 500w to 800w without batting an eyelid. This would have been pretty much unheard of when old-school AB amps were the norm, unless you were a touring pro. There was just no need for it. It makes you wonder what's [i]really[/i] going on under the hood of the Class D's. *cough* TC *cough* [/quote] This is getting to the nub of the issue I reckon. I've no doubt that if you took a 3000W class D PA amp through an 8x10 and drove it from a Sansamp then you'd be happy with the 'heft'. I really don't think there is a problem per-se with class D. There seems to me to be a couple of problems 'under the hood' though. The first is the problem with the power supplies, also switch mode and also lightweight. I think too many of these are probably underpowered and are unable to provide the 500W for more than a few thousandths of a second. Fine for a PA amp where you want undistorted sound but for a bassist regularly driving into distortion it'd feel like the class D amp was running out of steam. Of course there were class A/B amps with underpowered power supplies too. You get what you pay for here as well so it wouldn't be surprising to find expensive lightweight amps have better power supplies and seem punchier. The second thing is that going lightweight only makes sense if you trade in both speakers and amps. It's pushing it to get enough sound out of a little speaker and you need something fairly exotic to get enough sound out of a 2x10. You are going to get an awful lot more decibels out of an 8x10. With a mid-price 2x10 you simply don't have the headroom to start giving 6dB 0f bass boost for instance so if your preference is for that sort of eq you are going to have problems. So I think dood is right, it's the speakers that need some thought, or perhaps the speaker/amp combination or even the speaker/amp/bass interaction.

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1473260022' post='3128438'] Zoom B1.on + £20 Seinheinser headphones + an audio source, could be an MP3 player, tablet or laptop [/quote] You are probably bored with this answer by now but this is what I use, I get about a weeks use out of rechargables too. Happy days.

Ha ha I know how loud you play Steve. You'd obviously set off a room resonance somewhere. You might also have been getting some feedback off the sub. Reversing the polarity might have fixed that but left the room resonance so that you only lost some of the effect.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1473336405' post='3129224'] He's not wrong, y'know, and the same applies to bassists, too (as, indeed, to all musicians...). Technique for technique's sake is very rarely what's required. Who was it said 'Less is more.'..? Wise words, usually. [/quote] The first 40 seconds of All Right Now have often been said to be the most effective bass line ever.

how do you know your drummer is at the door? he knocks twice and comes in late

There's a lot to think about but in the end you don't get many flat response bass speakers, they are musical instrument speakers and a non flat response might be pleasing without being 'right'. There's a few considerations: the beta has a huge peak above about 700Hz peaking between 1000 and 3000Hz. That complicates the crossover design, if you already have too much output at 2000Hz then adding in a tweeter at that frequency is going to create quite a peak! Conventionally you'd probably use the crossover roll off to reduce that peak and then roll in the horn so that the response was flat at the crossover point. Electrically the two drivers would be crossing over at different points but the aim would be to get a more or less flat response. You'd also need to take into consideration the phase response of both speakers. The horn is going to be much more efficient than the Beta meaning you'll need to use some resistors to pad down the power to the horn whilst keeping the impedance seen by the crossover at your target value (8ohms probably) You need to decide if you are just going to use a high pass filter to the horn or a full 2 way crossover so the two speakers won't both be producing the same frequencies to avoid some of the problems above. Stevie has some software to design a crossover and may be willing to help you design what you need. Alternatively you could buy a ready made crossover which will work but not exactly match the drivers you will be using. It'll split the power for you and you will probably be OK with the sound even if it isn't exactly hi fi. You can use plenty of calculators on the internet to pad down the horn by whatever no of decibels you choose so that won't be a big problem. I notice that blue Aran do a 3.8kHz crossover that seems to have some padding built in for the horn http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BMAFD2CXFE&browsemode=category. The other consideration is that you need to match the horn to the needs of electric bass, there's almost no output apart from fret noise above 4000 Hz so you may not find too much of an improvement. A mid range driver may be more effective than a horn designed for a PA speaker.

[url="https://youtu.be/9oQsKRyihEA"]https://youtu.be/9oQsKRyihEA[/url] You've probably all seen this but .....

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1473202216' post='3128031'] I started off with the usual parbar system. They provide a lot of light for the money but are more appropriate for a disco than a band. They are also top heavy and flash through their effects faster than you would probably want if the band rather than the lights are meant to be the main attraction. I then bought a 12way lighting bar [url="http://www.americandj.eu/en/ultra-bar-12.html"]http://www.americand...tra-bar-12.html[/url] which sits on the floor behind the band casting light up against the rear wall it's still too fast but really effective, takes up no space and concentrates peoples attention on the band. If you want a single light then this is what I'd go for. Combine it with a couple of static lights to let the band see what they are doing and you'd have a great little set up. [/quote] Just to give you an idea this is a single 12 way bar behind the drummer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyCpTuErSR8 It needs some light from the front to throw something onto our faces but I reckon what you have would do that nicely.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1473271867' post='3128595'] Wood - how bright are those little led par cans? What sort of flood angle? [/quote]The ad says 40 degreees

I started off with the usual parbar system. They provide a lot of light for the money but are more appropriate for a disco than a band. They are also top heavy and flash through their effects faster than you would probably want if the band rather than the lights are meant to be the main attraction. I then bought a 12way lighting bar http://www.americandj.eu/en/ultra-bar-12.html which sits on the floor behind the band casting light up against the rear wall it's still too fast but really effective, takes up no space and concentrates peoples attention on the band. If you want a single light then this is what I'd go for. Combine it with a couple of static lights to let the band see what they are doing and you'd have a great little set up.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1473074120' post='3126534'] The old Motorola piezos sound great if you do use a crossover. The problem is most people bought Motorola's hype about not need if a crossover. Used correctly they have far less distortion than a typical compression horn. I will be building the 1x12 very soon and intend to put a piezo in it. If you are happy for me to try it and post my results in the 1x12 thread I am happy to do it. Sorry for the thread derail. [/quote] Sadly Motorola stopped making these years ago, another firm started making them but when I looked about 5 years ago these also weren't available in the UK, though I think there were some stocks in the USA. All I could find were cheap Chinese ones. Interestingly one Piezo horn driver I bought at the time has a crude L/C crossover built into it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-10cm-Replacement-Piezo-Horn-High-Frequency-Tweeter-Speaker-Drivers-Parts-320W-/121346021132.

[quote name='Kevin Dean' timestamp='1473068179' post='3126475'] Thanks very much for your kind offer , I've got a couple of friends that run PA hire companies & they are giving me some stuff to try out . [/quote] That's great, they should have active crossovers which will allow you to try all sorts of configurations at no cost other than time before committing to a build.

In that situation a piezo tweeter might be worth trying, they cost pennies and don't need a crossover. The down side is that they don't sound great but if they are just your personal monitor for the synth they might just give you enough to save you spending a fortune. There won't be a huge effect on your bass sound either. Power handling isn't great, they are usually rated in the maximum voltage they can handle 25-35V rms which equates to around 100W at 8 ohms, synth puts out a lot of power into the horns. The simple solution is to wire two in series ( I can hear Stevie and BFM flinching here as this is sooo wrong acoustically) It will work though I've got a box full of these in the loft , if you want to try and are happy to pay postage pm me and I'll send you a couple gratis. you can try them just resting on the cab and build a box after if you are happy with how they sound.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1472674754' post='3123226'] I got Mike Rutherford, but I have no faith in the process as many of my real answers were not among the options presented. [/quote] Another Mike Rutherford, I suspect that wanting to answer properly may be what puts us there

I'm concerned you are continuing to give yourself electric shocks. Depending upon a few variables it could be fatal. Please stop. I'm a little surprised PMT are taking things so lightly, your relatives might sue if you are killed. It could be anything from the wiring in the house to having any or all of your electrical goods being faulty but with no test gear and your current (!) level of knowledge you need someone to come and check. I've an idea what it is but I'm reluctant to suggest anything in case you decide since the previous shocks didn't do any lasting damage that one more won't hurt. Get someone in who can test what voltages you are dealing with, where they come from and how good your earth circuits are. Good luck and don't use up any more of your nine lives. Seriously.

Bill's right, they tune your cab to the best frequency for your speakers, without them the bass response will be all over the place, more importantly the power handling of your speakers will be reduced and you could end up damaging them terminally if you operate them at high volumes with lots of bass.

Functions are like this, they usually pay better but they are more hassle. You usually end up offering mics for speeches for Uncle Albert to do a 'turn' or you may be asked to provide a background playlist for the break. the people booking you are usually good people but have no experience of working with bands. Yes they should have asked but if they have transgressed then it's probably just because they don't know the system or as suggested that a polite request got lost in the Chinese whispers of it getting to you. It's no real biggy to provide one mic and tweak a knob or two as you have the PA there anyway. It'd be more hassle if she brought her own PA. £350 sounds like a good sum for a first gig. Relax

Hmm, I don't think it's going to be as easy as you think. You'll need two things in place to use this sort of set up to make it work, a crossover so that only the bass goes to the TC and an amp to drive it, though i guess you have a bass amp?? You could easily enough drive the bass amp using the tape output or you could remove the jumpers from the pre out and use the hi fi version of the effects loop. However you are going to find the TC is so much louder than your hi fi that it isn't going to be easy to get a good balance. On top of that bass speakers don't go as low as hi fi ones generally so you'll get more bass but not deeper bass and less realistic sound. All in all you'd probably be better off looking at a proper hi fi sub woofer with all the electronics built in. Maybe go and ask at your nearest Richer sounds or other hi fi stockist.

Hi, it looks like they've changed the design of this speaker again. I've just compared today's spec sheet with that of 2008 when I bought my speakers and one from about 4 years ago and on each the specs vary by enough to need a redesign of a suitable cab. The latest specs claim an improved excursion (Xmax) of 5mm compared to 3.2mm a few years back but Qts which is important in fitting the cab to the speaker has gone up to 0.65 from 0.5 in the latest version http://www.fane-international.com/prod_details.aspx?pid=534 . This means it is no longer suitable for a ported cab and in a sealed cab will have a bit of an upper bass hump and reduced bass extension. It has a pleasant sounding hump in the upper mids though and might sound quite nice as a 4x10 or 8x10, sort of Ampeg like. It's not far off being a clone of the Eminence Alpha 10. The 10-300 seems to have been a more stable design but has a very flat response making it a bit colourless as a driver in it's own right. This is from personal experience. It has a really well controlled bottom end but I'd only use it with a horn of some sort if I wanted to use it for bass. It has a huge magnet for a 10 so weighs quite a lot as a 2x10. Shame as the 2008 version of the 10-125 had a great sound for bass and I still use mine in a 2x10. I'd currently go for the Beyma SM110 as the best value cheap 10" speaker.

The majority of bands and solo acts tend to use a variant of the 12" + horn as a PA with subs if they put kick and bass through the PA. That's because it is currently the sweet spot for power price and portability. You've got to realise that most 12" drivers will only handle about 300W. That's down to two things, how much heat they can dissipate and how far the cone can move before distorting or damaging something (Xmax and Xlim). So anything that claims 1000W into a 12" driver is misleading you. With class D amps you might get a little extra power for a fraction of a second which helps with undistorted headroom and with DSP (signal processing) protecting the speaker then you shouldn't get any overshoot of the cone. So it's kind of true that some of the new actives are 1000W (or whatever) but but that is only for brief periods and they aren't actually any louder than an old fashioned 300W PA. As someone has said look at the SPL levels and you'll find most of the better PA tops claiming 127-130dB (that'll be peak levels) which is bloody loud and good enough to do vocals and almost everything else for a pub band. For price and portability they'll do most acoustic acts a good job too.

If they say it's analogue then it probably is analogue. Anyway here is my guess as to its workings. You can do this with an ordinary torch bulb (with huge bandwidth restrictions and distortion due to hysteresis/time lapse) connect a bulb to your speaker output and it will light up in time with your playing. As one or two people have already pointed out it was commonly used in the past to couple/decouple and compress a signal. A lot of old 70's disco sound light machines ran off the speaker jack and used this technique to decouple the speakers and act as a bit of automatic volume control. Using a led would give you a much faster response time and you'd just drive it off a pre amp circuit at the guitar end, hence the battery. At the other end you need a light dependant resistor or transistor to turn the signal back to an electrical one, hence the second battery. For me it's just a gimmick though. None of the 'problems' with guitar leads have ever worried me in practice and my very ordinary G30 radio connection works great too. Long term I'm not convinced of the stability of an optic fibre and connectors gigged every night and chucked into a lead box at the end of every gig after being wound up by the drummist.

That 8.25mm Xmax won't be definitive. That could just be down to changing the way Xmas is calculated. If you've got the new version then check the cone mass you used as that is definitely higher. I hope in a way that you have the new cone. You like the speaker and it would seem you've tried it out for us.

[quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1470085240' post='3103227'] Hmm... Two questions spring to mind: (1) Will I be able to tell if my two drivers, one bought in late April and the other earlier this month, are different specs? (2) If they are, will that have any impact on how the cabs sound as a pair? [/quote] might be worth a few emails to the retailer and/or Beyma. Are there any serial no.s on them?