Phil Starr

Like most things musical it is down to both taste and physics. Play a bass straight through a flat system like the PA and it sounds OK. Play electric guitar through the PA with no FX and it sounds very ordinary to say the least https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8dZwXnMrRU The technical side is simple. We don't hear bass well and loudspeakers are very inefficient at turning electricity into sound at bass frequencies. Simply you need to move a lot of air. An AC30 is bloody loud a 30W bass amp is a practice amp. Roughly speaking you are going to need at least 10dB more power which is 10x as much. You might get away with 15 or 20W of valve guitar amp through a loud driver at a pub gig but this translates to 150-200W of bass amp. A 200W transformer is heavy, two of them in each valve amp. High power valves like KT88's are expensive and you'll need at least four. If you want a clean uncompressed bass sound you'd want some headroom too so that means either really efficient and large speakers (8x10's?) or 400W+ amps. You need lots of thick copper wire to make a transformer so weight saving is difficult. Toroidals are lighter but there is a bottom limit. You could use a switch mode power supply (I suppose theoretically you could use a switch mode output conversion if you wanted to lose the valve sound, but what would be the point. ) Valves will always be more expensive to manufacture than solid state devices and so there is a limit to how much you could shave off the prices, no-one is going to start to mass produce them again. There isn't a cheap lightweight way of making a 200W valve amp I'm afraid, and there never will be.

How about something like Dakota, it's a fairly simple verse/chorus structure, four chords (the way most cover bands approach it) and pretty much eight to the beat. Audiences love it so you'll feel good about it and the band will already know it. Gimme Some Lovin Spencer Davies is another where the bass is really simple but an important part of the song, the first song I played in public. I'd second asking for a set list being easier all round though. they may even have one on their website so try stalking the band

Lovely man, one of life's real gentlemen. I remember the first time I heard him, he came on introduced as a 'plectrum guitarist' in the open mic section of our local folk club in 1969. The host was a bit of a joker. I still cannot believe the sheer amount of sound he got out of the guitar that night, brilliant. If one of those gigs already booked is down my way I'm definitely off to see him again.

Amps aren't really serviceable in the way things with moving parts are. There are parts which are more likely to fail than others but nothing that can be serviced, unless you are using a valve amp where valves can be replaced and quiescent currents re-set possibly. If you are dealing with a vintage valve amp then we know that the capacitors fail over time so a 're-cap' can be a good idea but that is more re-build than service. The idea of servicing a solid state amp that is working perfectly is a nonsense, equally if you know it is playing up then you need to have the fault identified and the part replaced before you dream of gigging with it. I wouldn't even use switch cleaner on something working as you could disturb a bit of dirt which would create a problem as a worse case. If it is crackling and you can find the bit that is doing it then it's a minimal risk DIY job, so try a bit of contact cleaner if you are happy to give it a go. Here's the thing Everything works perfectly................don't fix it Something is wrong...........................fix it I hate the idea that non technical people shell out decent money to a tech who should be straight with them.

I've got the Line6 G30. No problems at all but the battery door is as naff as everyone says. Studiospares have an offer on the Sennheiser version https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/Mics-Wireless/Sennheiser-XSW72-E-CH70-Instrument-System_473530.htm

I guess Mansons were one of them. Bit of a drive but Andy in Axe Music, Axminster is really helpful. http://www.axe-music.co.uk/

I tried the Alto floor monitors, the new concentric ones aren't as good sounding as the Wharfedale EVP's or the Behringers though they are smaller and probably do the job. With the personal monitors I tried the Behringers and the Mackies, nothing to choose between them I thought but I'm upgrading my Behringer to one of the TC Voicesolo. The behringer/mackie/WPM-1 can be mounted on the mic stand but the stands are then completely unstable. You really need them on a separate stand. The Voicesolo is more stable as it clips to the stand.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442680822' post='2868747'] I miss the one Fender that I've owned, a Highway One Jazz. It was just a nice plain, simple bass that played well and sounded like a Jazz, but somehow the whole package was satisfying. [/quote] Love my Highway One Jazz, in Daphne Blue. When I set out I thought, no point buying Fender, you'll just pay for the name. Then I went into Mansons in Exeter to while away an hour or so whilst my better half shopped for clothes, Tried out the second hand but unused (bought for a daughter who didn't use it) Highway and it just felt right, still does. £400 too so a bit of a bargain.

It's always a struggle but the difference when you get it right is a complete step up in the sound for you and the audience. Go at it systematically and try and engineer in the solution from the start, all your gear interacts on stage so you need to make it all work together and the more complex it is the harder you have to work. Once you have a plan then you can buy a bit at a time to add up to your complete system. In answer to your question, go active. in fact, unless you have a sound engineer go only for monitors where you can reach the volume control from the stage, ie on the front of the speaker. You really don't need to be carrying extra amps and have extra cabling nowadays and the active stuff will work with any mixer. I used some active PA speakers for a while and they were good but with the knob hidden away on the back it was a pain if one of them needed adjustment because of feedback halfway through the set. Who in the band needs to hear what? Anyone singing needs to hear their own voice in the monitors and most people want their voice to be louder than everyone elses. The only way to do this is to have personal monitors. The little ones on stands work well because putting them close to the singer means they don't spill out into the other singers sonic space too much. We use the Behringer B205D's, they work and we've only had one of the three give a problem, which was fixed by Behringer. We put the mic in these so people can control their own volumes, then send the signal to the desk. The problem then is the singers can hear the vocals but the rest of the band can't, at least not very well. We use a couple of floor wedges for the rest of the band, The drummer has his own monitor if stage space allows. Again I use Behringer's, the B1320's. They actually sound pretty good with vocals, a touch too bassy but a bit of bass cut works to correct this. Nicely made to be fair and no problems to date. They won't go as loud as EV's and the like, despite the huge power claims but they go loud enough that they can cause feedback so no extra volume would be any use unless we suddenly start playing huge stages. They were on offer at the time at DV247. The big disadvantage of this approach is that giving singers the chance to adjust their own volumes doesn't help the feedback control. I'm a fascist when it comes to gear so my band are fairly good. The other issue is that with five monitors running it can be hard to locate the ones causing any issues, but you learn your gear over time. The real solution to feedback however is to turn down on stage and persuading drummers that dynamics and attack are not the same as volume. Good luck with that

I solve this sort of problem with my Hartke Kickback 10. I bought it for acoustic open mic's where there isn't space, time or need for anything bigger. I use it a lot more than I thought as it will just about do for rehearsals and (rock) gigs in small pubs so long as you don't boost the bass at all. They don't make this model any more but you can pick them up used at about £100 so it isn't an expensive solution. Other makes are available I just haven't tried them. I don't think I'd go for a bigger combo because size and weight will be an issue again. However I'm with you in wanting the right tools for the job even if I can make do with what I have. If cost is no problem (how does £1000 sound) Then the AER Amp One would be perfect for you. The other alternative would be to buy a lightweight 1x12 or 1x10 to go with your amp.

I started off with a parbar system. The usual thing with four LED par cans on a stand with a footswitch. The plus is they look good the light level is about right for a pub band and they are quick and easy to set up. the munus is they aren't stable enough on the stand to take a shove from a drunk, so the places you can use them are limited unless you have them on stage, which is more clutter. It's often hard to find the right spot for them, at the side they stop you from seeing the rest of the band and from behind they leave you in shadow as far as the audience is concerned. The pre programmed flashing or fades are all a bit too fast for a band. Since then I've acquired an ADJ ultrabar 12 [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iXdQjxtNmg"]https://www.youtube....h?v=9iXdQjxtNmg[/url] this sits behind the drums uplighting the wall and is pretty stunning, I'm going to mix that in with a couple of colour washes and some white as described above as soon as funds allow, these will ensure we can be seen, see what we need on stage and give some movement whist taking up minimal space. I'll use the Parbar on the audience when space allows. The Led lighting is moving on apace, prices are tumbling and we've moved from dozens of 5mm Leds to fewer 10mm then Tri Leds and now COB Leds, with an increase in brightness and colour intensity each time. The tech is improving fast so it might be worth hanging on whilst you research your needs.

Hi I researched this pretty thoroughly for our female vocalist. Here's what I found. The Shure SM58 is rather outdated, it is dull sounding and more prone to feedback than modern mics.Shure updated it to the Beta series a long while ago but such is the demand they still produce the SM. A bit like making the old Beetle next to the VW Golf. For feedback control you need to look at a super cardioid or a hypercardiod, they have a tighter pickup pattern so don't pick up reflected sounds and cut feedback better. However, feedback is also caused by poor mic technique. With a super cardioid you need to be right on the mic's sweet spot or you fade out. If your singer is sensitive to this she'll freak out until she gets used to it. My new female vocalist hates the AKG D5 for that reason. It's great at rejecting feedback though and sounds fab. The SM58 is a cardioid which is why it is loved, it's very forgiving and you can forget about mics and concentrate on singing. The Beta 58 is described by Shure as a super cardioid but it isn't really tight so you can treat it as a cardioid. If you want the same but better sounding go for that. Or the Beta 57 which is the same gubbins in a different case and a slightly different sound. If you want a modern sounding cardioid go for the Sennheiser E935, which is what I use, having criticised singers for poor mic technique for years I find I can't address the mic properly and play bass at the same time. It is very neural sounding. There's a group of mics around the £80-120 mark most people end up with AKG D5,D7 Sennheiser 845,935,945 Audix OM5, OM7 EV ND767 ND967 Shure Beta57,58 To be honest they all sound great but slightly different, for feedback rejection look at the AKG's Audix and the EV's, The Akg D5 is a bargain especially with the sound it produces, I've tried them all but the Audix's. If you can afford more then you are in condenser territory, you get much more detail in the sound a sweeter sound but at the extra cost and your mixer will need to provide phantom power unless your TC does. The Shure Beta87 is magic.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1441959768' post='2863210'] it's tiny! (and I love the way it looks ) I want to hear these minibeast! Especially with that very same amplifier [/quote] You know Rich (Grangur) I'm not sure whether to love you or hate you. I've been saving up for a AER Amp One as a go to for small to medium gigs but my Hartke has been making a few odd noises so I was going to look at a LMIII as a replacement/backup. Can't afford both but this rig would be cheaper than the AER. So I have to think about it. BUT, buying a speaker instead of building one, well that really goes against the grain. Any chance of you passing this way again, with your rig? The J East Retro is sounding lovely by the way.

Let us know what you do

[quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1442342161' post='2866257'] Point taken. While it wasn't perhaps entirely serious, I only asked because I seem to have played at quite a number of local festivals round South London this summer where the standard of stage management and available resources is a bit of a crapshoot. They seem to be usually best set up for singer-songwriters with just an acoustic guitar, although someone else has been booking bands like ours for the stage. I've become quite adept at getting the gear on and off stage in quick order; put my rig together before going and then just manhandle it to where it's needed in one piece. Bringing a couple of our own mics and stands with us has been useful on occasion, too. You just have to learn to live with less than optimal cable runs in these circumstances. [/quote]Yeah it's tough, though it sounds like you are quite organised. Beware, that's the first step to cable nazi. If you care about the music and the audience though.... The nearest I get to this situation nowadays is at open mics where we play as a duo. I carry spare mics/leads/stands and a mains extension (white 4way) on top of bass and my little Hartke Kickback.

[quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1442336151' post='2866175'] Curious how the 'cable nazis' deal with a half hour slot on a bill with a load of other bands and you have about two minutes at each end of the slot to set up and break down while another band is doing the reverse on stage at the same time... Do you still take precious minutes out of your performance time to get your cables just so, or do you simply not play these kinds of gigs? [/quote] This is really a question for those regularly gigging bands that carry their own PA. As someone who used to organise the sort of gig you refer to I found fixing everything down was essential to a quick handover. All the leads were colour coded to so if one of the bands swapped a mic or a lead I could spot it from FOH. Fortunately I've never had to play at this sort of event.

I'm loving the responses, thanks everyone, I've just replaced all our white mains leads with black and am busy swapping out some of the 1m mains leads for 3m leads. I've recently cut my 10m mic leads into two and have just bought 4x3m leads. I went wireless about a year ago. I was thinking it was just me. Any more suggestions welcome.

Looks like we are all in similar places. I too am the cable nazi. Dads comment about the 9.00 pm issue rings so true. We've had situations where "you can't set up until Jethro has finished their sticky toffee pudding" or until a match on Sky ends. Then there's no time for a sound check never mind taping stuff down. I'm not completely happy about gaffa tape either, it makes a real mess of your leads when it is warm and the adhesive melts/softens. Mains leads are expanding too now we are using active monitors, mains powered pedal boards and our own lights. They used to be back line only.

I wonder what you all do about the mess of leads on stage? They look awful and constitute a trip hazard for band and audience. The problem for most bands is that every venue is different and usually far from ideal. Leads that are too short in one venue are too long in the next etc etc. On top of this one band member or another will always turn up late and pull out a 50 metre mic lead they wrap around every item on stage, before dumping the excess 35m in front of the monitors or at the foot of the mixing desk. Sorry, serious question, I shouldn't rant. What do you do? I'm considering making up a wiring loom of some sort or perhaps just a couple of short multicores with a stage box each, one for front line and one for backline. Anyone tried this? Any other suggestions for tidying the mess?

[quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1442222892' post='2865185'] Whistle test was never two hours, and in early days certainly used pre-recorded backing tapes (the Who, Lindisfarne come to mind). [/quote] this was a compilation

There are so many reasons for pain, you are going to have to work through them. There may be something wrong with you, a trapped nerve or bony spurs in the channel the nerve runs through, these press on the nerve when you compress your shoulder with the bass. See a doctor for advice just in case. Spread the load with a decent strap as everyone is saying. Check the balance of your bass, it should sit without moving in a perfect playing position with no neck dive or twisting. My P bass does this but my T'bird doesn't, constantly supporting it and twisting it back makes my left shoulder ache after 30 mins or so. I'm using muscles I don't use very often to support it and they are under continuous tension all the time I'm playing. It rarely comes out at gigs. Strengthen you shoulders, buy some weights go the the gym or work out other exercises. I'm a little weedy guy and extra strength helps a lot with shoulder pain. Basically I don't get it any more, except with the T'bird The advice on relaxation and technique is good. If your arm isn't relaxed it is going to ache whatever you do. Check in a mirror whilst you play to see what positions you are forcing that arm into. Keep experimenting with strap lengths, raising or lowering the bass by as little as a cm might make a big difference in the tension in your arm.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1442177600' post='2864973'] Are you suggesting that OGWT was actually playing live and not miming to a prerecording? [/quote] It was a two hour program, whilst the use of pre recorded material happens it's pretty obvious to a musician when someone is miming. I've no idea of how things were mic'd up or perhaps DI'd but I'm happy it was recorded in the studio for the main part. Some of the bass sounded OK, if a little old school thumpy, much of it was awful, truly awful. I understand that some of what I heard may be down to poor recordings but for me the simpler explanation is that people were struggling to get a good consistent bass sound with what we now see as classic gear. The funny thing was I only noticed after about half an hour of listening, I was hearing what I expected to hear and I'd tuned in to have a couple of hours of happy nostalgia, of great songs, loon pants and long hair. Once I noticed the bass sound it became a 'thing' I couldn't ignore. I think I was as guilty as anyone of a rose tinted memory of times past and that we perhaps don't recognise how far our tech has come.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1442184563' post='2865039'] The workhorse video recorders of the broadcast industry were the Quadraplex Ampex VR2000 and the RCA TR70 which both 2-inch tape. The video was recorded transversely across the tape using a 4-headed scanner. Audio tracks were longitudinal and somewhat rudimentary by modern standards. The BBC used mainly VR2000s. Here is the brochure. Have a look at the audio specs. [url="http://www.digitrakcom.com/literature/VR2000BbrochureWEB.pdf"]http://www.digitrakc...brochureWEB.pdf[/url] . Initially there was no electronic editing so the only way to edit was by developing the tape to see where the control track pulses were and then physically cutting and splicing the tape to make a simple cut. Anything recorded prior to the mid/late 1970s was on one of these machines. By the mid 1970s the Quad machines started to be replaced by the C-Format 1-inch VTRs and then in the 1980s by the Analogue Betacam SP Cassette Recorders. Finally in the 1990s recording started to become digital and proper full-bandwidth audio was possible. [/quote] Thanks that is genuinely interesting, though the biggest restriction seems to be on the top end, and -2dB 50-15kHz wouldn't affect the bass too much. Certainly the improvement of sound in the mid 70's and again in the late 70's early 80's ties in with what you are saying. Personally I suspect some of the engineering techniques might have been more significant than the recording gear. BBC and a lot of other sound engineers were notoriously trained as technicians first and foremost, and had little feel for rock music, though this would have changed rapidly over the period of time we are talking about. I would imagine OGWT would have attracted those people who were interested in the music and a team developed. Other people have assumed that there was a deterioration in the sound when it was sold/licensed across from the BBC to Yesterday. I assume the BBC would have digitised the material from their masters and this is what was sold, I can't imagine they sent the master tapes.

Yes I know that there may be a lot of issues about transferring recordings, recording technology et al. I tried to recognise that up front without being too long winded, a first for me probably but the bass tones in particular were bad, guitar keys and vox sounded so much better and were presumably suffering the same sonic journey. Yes, I suspect the cabs a lot. I was designing and custom building gear back then, as I do now and I know how the tech has evolved, but I like to think I'm objective and I was still shocked how poor the bass all sounded. I'll see if any of the performances are on youtube if I get time.

Just been watching The Old Grey Whistle Test, sounds of the seventies on Yesterday and I was struck by just how poor the bass sound is in almost every song. All using classic gear which we now rave about. Valve amps and stacks of large speakers. The possible exception is the Ampeg Fridge users that sounded OK at least some of the time. Now something could be lost in translation of course but these were top bands, using then state of the art gear and recorded by the BBC. Almost nothing I heard would pass muster in a pub covers band today in terms of sound quality. In my memory it all sounded fantastic but the reality was that the bass in particular sounded awful in early seventies live recordings. So, was the gear really that good?