Phil Starr

Hope this doesn't count as a necropost, but I'm a little embarrassed at how long it has been. Sorry people, especially those who have offered to help. Anyway there's some news. I spent one of the most enjoyable afternoons I've had for years in Stevie's Garage running tests on the prototypes followed up by a session with a bass or two listening to the speakers, family commitments meant it was too short a time actually playing. Basically we ran two tests, one was a simple frequency sweep and we then removed a driver and ran a check on the t/s parameters to see if the provided figures were accurate. The two prototypes were set up slightly differently, one tuned to 40Hz and one to 50Hz. Stevie will be along later to put up the actual data but the headlines are: Beyma's published data is pretty accurate, Qts was slightly lower than spec and Bl correspondingly higher, Vas was lower than spec. All this means is that the speaker is better suited to an smaller cab and a better match for the 50l cab we designed. Of course we only tested one unit so there may/will be a manufacturing spread but Beyma clearly aren't puffing up their figures. It's also a nicely made unit. Frequency response was pretty much exactly as expected, possibly less of a bass hump than expected due to the low Q of the driver. The speaker was substantially flat over most of the response with a noticeable but minor peak around 2kHz and the -10dB points were at roughly 40Hz and 5kHz.. There was a measurable difference in the bass between the 50Hz and 40Hz tuning with about 2dB more bass between 40 and 100Hz with the 50Hz tuning. If you remember we discussed this during the design process. I preferred the lower excursion at 30Hz of the lower tuning and Stevie preferred the extra bass and power handling of the 50Hz tuning. Well it showed up in the tests. Into the listening room and we tried out two very different basses through the cabs. Fender American Deluxe with Elixirs and Highly modified Yamaha with Flats) I won't say too much about the sound as I'm hoping Stevie will pull no punches but they produce some nice clean deep bass with a pleasant 'flutiness' due probably to the 2kHz peak. You could hear the difference in the two tunings with the controls flat but it was very easy to dial out with a touch of eq on Stevie's Little Mark III. I marginally preferred the sound of the 50Hz tuning and I think stevie had a small preference for the 40Hz tuning but I'd suspect this would change depending upon the bass you use and the room acoustics. Anyway, Stevie has the data and our conclusion is; the design does what it says on the tin, and the sound is something we'd be happy to share with other people, It's a better cab than most mid priced commercial offerings. I'm going to build the final cab and photograph the process and release the design.

TBH it's probably uneconomic to repair unless it's something really simple. If you reckon the value as roughly half the new cost then that should give you an idea of how much you should be prepared to spend. If all the amp tech did was to try the effects output then it might be something really simple like an internal fuse or a dry solder joint. Your best bet is to get a quote/estimate for a repair and/or possibly to ask your Father in law to take a quick look. If there is no joy then sell it on and let someone else try. The trouble is that it is getting on for an hours work to take the amp out get it on the bench and then to put it back. Until that is done the tech will have no idea if it is fixable and what is involved.

[quote name='bassbiscuits' timestamp='1435091471' post='2805446'] Only ever tried Epiphone and Tokai versions until quite recently, and found them pretty hard work - weighed a tonne, fairly uninspiring sound and cumbersome to play. Looked immense tho. Then I got a chance to try a real thunderbird at the Midlands Bass Bash, and it was fantastic - slim, responsive, and actually pretty lightweight in comparison to the boat anchors I'd played before. I need to spend more time getting my head round thunderbirds, as secretly I still think they're epic basses and by far the coolest looking instruments in the universe. [/quote] For me this is the essence of these frustrating instruments, and the reason the Epi's don't work for me. The ergonomics of T-birds are truly awful. They neck dive like crazy and twist away from your body. Playing them for a lengthy time makes muscles you didn't know about start aching like mad. Even with a wide strap the weight goes entirely on your left shoulder and the bass feels unstable. the only time I used it for a full gig (2hrs+) my left wrist ached for days after. I find my fretting hand is holding the bass as well as fretting it. The joy is that the Gibsons are really light and have a superslim/fast neck, there's a tendency to chuck them about a bit when you are playing and that adds to the energy of the performance and the fun factor. The Epi's are heavier so you lose that, I guess if you are built like an ox then it may be less of an issue. I actually think the Epi's sound great and the QC is probably better than Gibsons but the extra weight kills them for me.

It's a bit Through The Looking Glass really, the question is, how widely do you define tone and perhaps, how important is tone. If tone is everything outside playing the right notes at the right time then technique probably is more important than the bass you play. Even if you define tone more narrowly as the sound coming out of the speakers then the speakers and the amp have roughly the same effect on sound as the bass you use, give or take. If I hand my gear over to a more experienced bassist they get sounds out of it I can only dream of. Even listening to two equally talented bassists playing the same gear will give you differences in tone. Equally playing at home My J Bass has a much nicer tone than my more expensive P-Bass. On stage with my current band I think the P works better but I don't suppose the audience notices or cares. Listening to live recordings of my band I couldn't swear to you which bass I was using in most of the songs. I no longer bother swapping basses at gigs for such marginal gains as the dynamic of the gig is more important. Of course we care about tone, if you want to play music you should take it seriously, but hours spent on the bass will improve your sound more than hours spent shopping surely? So to answer the OP it's all a factor but if you've got decent gear then most of how you sound it is down to you. If you have the money you can buy marginal improvements but narrowly defined tone is only part of how your sound.

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1434621526' post='2801204'] Thanks, but I'm specifically not asking about an amp. Well I suppose I am, but not in the sense of a large heavy black box covered in carpet or tolex. The smallest simplest (cheapest) way to get a line level (NOT mic/XLR) from a bass into a (line) mixer. [/quote] Active DI is the cheapest most simple way. Might be worth looking at the Zoom B1ON at about £35, you could get an active DI for maybe £25 but this little baby gives you a whole lot more to play with (Amp emulation, pedal emulation, tuner, drum machine, metronome) You'll need a splitter lead if you want to feed it to your amp and the PA though.

He's fiddling with the controls on the bass altering the balance between pups and varying his picking a bit too so it's a not very scientific test, but interesting nonetheless. I bought a 2003 Gibson a couple of years ago as it was going cheap. Monstrous sound and such a fast neck but I was playing a lot of acoustic stuff at the time and sold it on. Since joined a rock band and was missing it so I tried the Epiphone Pro's . Much heavier, and a more chunky neck than my old Gibson, a bit like moving from a J to a P-bass. The sound was different too as shown in the video. I've since bought a Japanese made Burny (Fernandes) T-bird. The necks a delight, same dimensions as the old Gibson but much better finished. The bass weighs less than the Gibson and a lot less than any of the Epiphones It's got a hell of a thud but slightly less top than the Gibbo. It sustains well just like the Gibson. I suspect very overwound Pups used. You don't really get that aggressive edge the old Gibson had. If I gigged it a lot I'd probably change the Pups but the moral is that if you want a cheap but good T-Bird then it's worth having a look at the Japanese copies.

4x vocals, what else is going into the desk? If you are putting drums in then a separate drum mixer is always good anyway as you get the drums balanced properly but then set the level them in a single channel. If not get an active DI for one of the other instruments or look to run off a DI from one of the instrument amps, most bass amps have a line level output. You can often use the effects output if there isn't a dedicated DI out. Some vocal monitors also have a line level output.

[quote name='stuckinthepod' timestamp='1434539495' post='2800524'] We play it and people love it. Don't worry, play it. [/quote] funnily enough we were discussing this last night. There's a bit of humbug here from both sides. Bands play BS because punters love it. They don't play the song to educate people or 'keep the issue' alive. Most bands and audiences would have no more idea of what the lyrics say and mean than say, Lady Marmalade where ironically the only bit they get is the French Given the rest of the Stones output at the time it was probably just meant to be a sexy song, I don't suppose Jagger would write those lyrics now. Fortunately they wrote a load of great songs so there is no need to look at it and I wouldn't play it, but wouldn't get in a huff if someone else does. Most singers in cover bands have no idea what they are singing about anyway. We were talking about Blurred Lines and Rockstar as being a bit too dubious to do when BS came up as another example of songs we'd think twice about. Leader of the Gang anyone?

I'm surprised the speaker ever worked well if you used an instrument cable. They are screened cables and only suitable for very low currents. 1W would be too much 65W far too much. Get a speaker cable, please.

Hi Jenny, there could be a number of problems. Getting your volume right should be fairly simple. You have volume controls on your bass and on the amp. The trick is to match the drummer in volume, if you are louder than him then obviously the band can never sound in balance as he/she doesn't have a volume control. The second thing is that you may be having trouble picking yourself out of the mix when playing live and turning up or just pulling harder on the strings when you can't hear yourself well. I have a problem of increasing volume by simply picking harder as the adrenaline kicks in, so I set my levels well back in the soundcheck. I think you haven't been playing long and it takes a while to get used to hearing yourself in a live situation. EQ is always problematic for bass, the acoustics are different in every venue and some venues accentuate bass a lot. You need to eq at every venue I find, The 'gutless' thing may also be down to eq. Our ears are more sensitive to the frequency extremes at high sound levels, so you need a bit more bass added as you turn the volume down. This is a function of how our ears work and nothing to do with particular amps or speakers [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves."]https://en.wikipedia...3Munson_curves.[/url] Reset the eq when you turn down. I don't know where you are in Dorset but we play a lot of small pubs. I'm 200m from the Dorset border. I use a small combo for those venues. You can use the full rig but why bother carrying in all that gear if you don't need it and stage area is often tight so a smaller amp is useful. You have great gear and I'll bet it sounds good at home when you have the time to set it up properly. I don't think you need to change it but to spend a little time to set it up to get the best out of it. Hope this helps.

[quote name='stevebasshead' timestamp='1434324430' post='2798693'] Been double booked a few times and even triple booked once! One pub told us we got double booked because they kept two diaries, one upstairs and one downstairs. There are lots of good ones of course who know their job and are very band friendly, but there are some where I wonder how they manage to dress themselves in the morning... [/quote] Bad luck Modman, we've had the usual double bookings but never actually on the day. Pubs closing down and not telling anyone is really common too. I've not had a rant about just how badly run a lot of pubs are for a while. Unbelievable really. How many pubs ever publicize any of their events at all. I used to go round pubs for bookings to find the majority of them had no internet connection at all, never mind a website. When was this distant time? Three years ago. When you do find a website will it be up to date? They usually have a blank events page, even if you know you are booked there, contact details are often incorrect, menus five years out of date, and so on. Try and find out which pubs locally have a quiz night on, good luck with that! For most pubs advertising a gig is down to a board outside and a single poster inside. The only people who see it are their regular customers. It's great for them to spend £250 entertaining a few regulars but given the nature of their business financial suicide. I've invited friends to see us when we play in their local and most of them were completely unaware that there were regular gigs there. Most pubs seem to want to keep their plans secret until after the event. One local pub has bands every other week, they never advertise so no-one knows if it is a band week or an empty lifeless pub week. Why? There's never much in the way of creating an event either. Happy hour or a meal deal, to get people in for an hour or so before the band, perhaps a drink offer on gig night or whatever. Simple things like considering where to put the band, clearing a space, having a power point, access for moving gear, safety issues around heavy speakers and trip hazards are completely unregarded at most venues. There's often no consideration of the music. Why book a dance band if their is nowhere to dance? Why book a rock band into a pub which normally has quiet acoustic acts or a pop band into a bikers pub. A bunch of 20 year olds playing screamers to a bunch or 50+ drinkers doesn't work too well either. Who are you trying to attract with your £250 investment? Which bands would best serve that aim, not a question ever asked in my experience. Also look what is going on in other venues around you. One of my bugbears is towns where all the pubs have a band on Sat nights and inevitably share the limited audience, but no-one does anything on a Fri. Now I've sympathy for a lot of landlords, they work long hours and there's no training. Why should they know about promoting music events? But a pub running bands once a week is investing £13,000 in a year. they wouldn't do this without thinking it through in any other area of their work, so why not talk to people about music if you don't know enough. So many pubs are failing to attract enough customers to survive. Bands are running low on venues and audiences, but people are always looking for things to do and the standard of pub bands has never been higher. Pubs that stick with regular music and do it well are usually rammed on a weekend. Internet sites that will promote your events abound and are cheap or free, there's no excuse for running a secret event, if in doubt then ask the bands for advice. Why don't breweries and Pubco's offer training? Grrr

Quacking I can do, lol. that's the problem . Thanks for your help everyone, any further advice welcome.

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1434033225' post='2796140'] FromFrFr It sounds like it could be an issue regarding relative pitching. Good singing is largely a mental process (no doubt, some will disagree...), and if you've heard yourself back through the monitors to be able to pitch correctly initially, you should be able to retain the memory of the relative pitch.... If, on the other hand, you could not "align" yourself to start with (i.e. you were not sure where the note you were singing "should" be pitched), then it sounds plausible that you will be off-key when you can finally hear yourself, having not previously established a link between your vocal pitching and the other instruments. I guess just to add to that, securely knowing where the pitches without simple reference is hard and may take years of practice!! [/quote] Hmm, of course that could be going on as well. I've only recently realised that as in all things practice is important. I'd assumed because so many people can hold a tune with little or no effort and I can't that no amount of practice could help. I now know that is wrong, but even so my inability to sing without monitors makes practicing pretty difficult, singing in the car for example just reinforces bad habits. Something else is going on though which is about my hearing, whether by ear or by brain and I'd love to know if anyone expert in this can point me in the right direction. You're right though in pitch security being important.

I'm hoping someone here teaches singing or knows enough to suggest some reading I can do. The temporary fix is a personal monitor like the little Behringer or Mackie ones. I've no pretensions of ever singing a whole song but various bands want me to do more backing vocals.

All my life I've been told not to sing. Recently however I've accidentally stumbled upon something that has completely thrown me. If I sing through monitors I can sing in tune. If I turn the monitors off it sounds hopelessly out of tune to me, but in tune to everyone else, turn them back on and my voice is still in tune. What the hell is going on? It seems I can't hear my own voice properly. It works the other way too, if I start singing without monitors it sounds in tune to me but the monitors (and the rest of the world) show it is way out. Please, please if anyone has an explanation I'd love to hear it. If I understood it there might be things I could do to find my way round the problem.

Yeah strictly speaking the Bose style columns aren't line array speakers but a line source. The thing is that having the speakers behind the mics will give you feedback problems at higher sound levels than having them out of the mics sensitive spots. because they have a better controlled directional response and a more even response than horns they give you a few more dB (or gain before feedback) than conventional speakers but they don't perform magic and the sound levels you can get away with are limited compared with a conventional system. I used them once and it's nice to hear what the audience hear and have no need for separate monitors but once the drums kick in they don't really cut it. Good for acoustic acts.

Why GAS? Millions of years of evolution as hunter/gatherers. Our advantage as rather weak, rather slow moving, large mammals was adaptability and foresight. Picking up stuff that might come in useful later, gathering more than our immediate needs and trading our tools for something slightly better whist hanging on to the old ones as long as possible could make the difference between life and death. People with those traits survived and the feckless died. Now we can't help ourselves, it's why my wife has 60 pairs of shoes but only two feet, and why I bought a Thunderbird. You did ask

There's two issues here, what do the strings sound like and how slowly does the sound take to change. I love the sound of two week old Rotosounds. The new sound is just too much like they are trying to climb out of the cab and attack for my taste but there's a golden month when the sound is fab. I changed to Dean Markley Blue Steels, They don't sound quite as good but last a whole lot longer. I used to change Roto's about every three months and I get a year out of the Blue Steels which sound better a year old than the Roto's at 3 months. I've a set of the Elixirs as a try out on one of my basses at the moment, fitted at Christmas. The sound was less bright than the Blue Steels I fitted at the same time, warm but not unpleasant, Six months on the difference isn't as great so I'd say the Elixirs are going to outlast the Blue Steels, at a cost however. One set is on a P bass and the other on my J, so the sound is different anyway and you can't take this as a detailed and objective test, but this is my experience of their longevity. IMO it is worth paying twice as much for strings if they last four times as long and sound better for most of that time. If I was Graham Maby or Mark King I'd have Rotosounds on my practice bass for a fortnight then I'd gig them for a month and replace them. There are other reasons however why they sound much better than me

Well there's loads of ways to organise things but it doesn't look as if anyone has thought of one in this case. Wait and see if the OP gets back to us.

You've probably all seen this but it tickled me this morning when someone tagged me on FB http://mic.com/articles/120137/science-suggests-bassists-are-far-more-important-than-most-people-realize?fb_action_ids=10153347200353834&fb_action_types=og.shares

[quote name='DorsetBlue' timestamp='1433407169' post='2790757'] Each band to provide their own pub level vocal PA. [/quote] I think there must be some misunderstanding here. This isn't really a festival but more like a village fete where someone wants to give the kids a chance to play. Is that right? In any case what they are proposing isn't really a practical proposition. This sounds like someone who has been delegated to do a job they know very little about and doesn't want to take on a huge task. I used to run stages at festivals. Even a small pub PA is going to take 30mins to set up, assuming nothing goes wrong. If the people setting up don't know much about equipment, or are setting up an unfamiliar system then an hour to set up would be a more realistic target. That's not allowing for carrying the gear up to the stage. We gig 20 times a year, I've been running PA for forty years and we still allow an hour to set up our gear for pub gigs. That's not allowing for the previous band to take their PA away. An hour between bands means no audience. If you want to have a quick turn round of bands the more gear you share the better. I also wouldn't attempt this without at least one competent sound engineer and the ability to mix the sound from out in the audience. The other thing is that you will need a bigger PA for an outdoor event. Without walls and ceilings the sound is radiated 360 degrees, distances to the audiences are bigger and there is usually a high level of ambient noise, generally you'd aim for at least an extra 6db of sound. You'll be able to hear well enough but you'll also be able to talk over the band at only slightly elevated levels if that helps you picture the sound you'll get. I'm not one who is throwing accusations of cynicism at the organisers but they really don't know what they are doing. Get together with the other bands and sort this out between you or go back to the organisers and tell them to find someone who is competent to take responsibility. I'm assuming this is a charity or some sort of community event, if not then walk away might be the best advice. If you want to go ahead because your colleagues lad needs to get a chance to play then it might be possible to get a local band to set up their PA for the kids and run the sound, it won't be Glastonbury but at least it won't be a shambles and it wouldn't be too expensive to hire. One last thought, you can't put a load of electrical gear out on damp ground safely, have they thought about a waterproof stage and about electrical safety or even an electrical supply?

There really is no point in using subs for vocals. They are only providing reinforcement two octaves below any sound going into the mic. The only possible source of low frequency sound is from vibration through the floor and mic stand, handling noise or picking up sound from the drums and bass, all of which might muddy your vocal sound. Most mixers have a subsonic filter to keep these sounds out of the audio chain often at about 80Hz. Make sure these are switched on to keep energy sucking and unwanted noise from the PA. Similarly going for 15's isn't a solution, with just vocals the volume is determined by the mids and highs so more bass isn't going to make much difference. If anything you'll probably lose a little mid output and some dispersion so they'll be less loud and less clear. I'm staggered that the EV's are struggling, these are not inconsequential speakers and should be capable of going pretty loud. How loud is the rest of your band?! you'll have to spend a lot to get better than the EV's and you say money is tight. How do you know they are struggling? Do you venture out into the audience space to listen to the sound they are hearing? How do you run your vocal monitors? There are a couple of other things you could look at. Are the EV's DSP controlled and if so how is this set up? There may be some limiting circuitry which is cutting in to soon. How is your sound eq'd, a small boost to the mids might help punch through, or cut the bass and turn up, I know some of the EV's have different DSP settings for different types of music and venues so look to see if some of the other settings, if you have them, are more suitable. You could also look at using some vocal compression, this 'squashes' the sound cutting the peaks so you can bring up the average sound level without driving the PA into distortion. Compression may increase feedback problems though.

It varies from place to place across the country, how good you are and I think we're all assuming covers bands. Down here there are a lot of small rural pubs and so fees are lower. Nevertheless £200-250 for a competent band with all the right gear seems about right for a pub gig. £400 for parties or larger gigs. Weddings are more but it depends upon what they want. If they are happy to let you just get on with the usual set then it shouldn't be more than other parties but they rarely do. Usually you have to set up hours in advance, they'll use your PA for speeches so someone is stuck to the mixer all evening and you can't pack up until everyone has left. They'll usually want a say in what you play and you may have to learn a couple of new songs. You can't spoil someone's big day either so everything has to be perfect. Given the audience may range from 8-80 you'll need a wedding set. There are bands who specialise in weddings and functions, for the rest of us I'd only do a wedding if the bride and groom had heard us and liked what we do. Under these circumstances where we aren't really providing the full wedding service I'd just go for double our 'normal' fee. There is an element of supply and demand. As someone has said, if you aren't getting the bookings then you are asking too much. Start edging the price up once you have a full diary.

Don't really understand the problems some people have with start ups. Musicians generally tend to have bigger dreams (fantasies maybe) than the general population but that is also true of many established bands. Finding the right people to play with is often our biggest problem but it isn't unreasonable to expect to kiss the odd frog before finding your prince is it? Just talking to people uncovers most of the dreamers. If they are over 20 and haven't gigged regularly then you know they are just bedroom players. If they are a gigging band then you should be able to see the gigs advertised somewhere and be able to go and see them. At the very least there ought to be some websites advertising cancelled gigs. My latest band was a start up but all the other members had been gigging, for most cases for years. The singer was less experienced, but boy can she sing. Most of all the attitude at the audition was open minded and cooperative with no big egos and a couple of songs just flew. One audition to see if a project has legs? That doesn't seem to be a lot of effort to me. The things I'd now look for in a band are people who have organisational skills and someone who goes out and sells the band/gets the gigs. That's the skill in short supply. If the band has a decent set list and long list of bookings then someone has done the hard work, if not you need to find out who is going to make that happen at the audition stage unless you ae prepared to take that on yourself. Musicians are easy to find, bandleaders less so. There's plenty of warning signs. Have they booked rehearsal space, sent out setlists, suggested audition pieces, chord sheets and recordings if they are an originals band. Do they turn up on time, what's their gear like, how do they respond to suggestions? Are they interested in learning one or two of your songs? The advantage of a start up is that you can expect more of an input into the music. Join a gigging band and you get the gigs at the cost of having to learn their set, their way in a few weeks and then sticking to it for a long time. With a start up you might have a couple of months of rehearsal but with more chance of playing stuff you really enjoy. I don't think one is better but both suit some people more than others.

Most of us go through this I guess. What comes next defines us as musicians. When my first band (all friends) folded after five years I started my own band with one of my mates, this folded after a couple of years and the usual hassle over material. It's rare for any two musicians to completely agree over direction even in a covers band. I saw the writing on the wall with the second break up and joined another band with strangers which so far is looking really good. Most of the musicians in the folded bands haven't played since, hence the defining moment. Several much better musicians than me have gone back to being bedroom players. Being unwilling to compromise music means they are unlikely to play in bands again. My advice is to start looking into either building your own band or joining an existing one. It's not clear from your post but are any of your last band willing to try and make something new? If not keep a look out for bands needing a bassist. It only took me a few weeks to find a new band even in a rural area so I'd be optimistic. Good luck