Phil Starr

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1442177600' post='2864973'] Are you suggesting that OGWT was actually playing live and not miming to a prerecording? [/quote] It was a two hour program, whilst the use of pre recorded material happens it's pretty obvious to a musician when someone is miming. I've no idea of how things were mic'd up or perhaps DI'd but I'm happy it was recorded in the studio for the main part. Some of the bass sounded OK, if a little old school thumpy, much of it was awful, truly awful. I understand that some of what I heard may be down to poor recordings but for me the simpler explanation is that people were struggling to get a good consistent bass sound with what we now see as classic gear. The funny thing was I only noticed after about half an hour of listening, I was hearing what I expected to hear and I'd tuned in to have a couple of hours of happy nostalgia, of great songs, loon pants and long hair. Once I noticed the bass sound it became a 'thing' I couldn't ignore. I think I was as guilty as anyone of a rose tinted memory of times past and that we perhaps don't recognise how far our tech has come.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1442184563' post='2865039'] The workhorse video recorders of the broadcast industry were the Quadraplex Ampex VR2000 and the RCA TR70 which both 2-inch tape. The video was recorded transversely across the tape using a 4-headed scanner. Audio tracks were longitudinal and somewhat rudimentary by modern standards. The BBC used mainly VR2000s. Here is the brochure. Have a look at the audio specs. [url="http://www.digitrakcom.com/literature/VR2000BbrochureWEB.pdf"]http://www.digitrakc...brochureWEB.pdf[/url] . Initially there was no electronic editing so the only way to edit was by developing the tape to see where the control track pulses were and then physically cutting and splicing the tape to make a simple cut. Anything recorded prior to the mid/late 1970s was on one of these machines. By the mid 1970s the Quad machines started to be replaced by the C-Format 1-inch VTRs and then in the 1980s by the Analogue Betacam SP Cassette Recorders. Finally in the 1990s recording started to become digital and proper full-bandwidth audio was possible. [/quote] Thanks that is genuinely interesting, though the biggest restriction seems to be on the top end, and -2dB 50-15kHz wouldn't affect the bass too much. Certainly the improvement of sound in the mid 70's and again in the late 70's early 80's ties in with what you are saying. Personally I suspect some of the engineering techniques might have been more significant than the recording gear. BBC and a lot of other sound engineers were notoriously trained as technicians first and foremost, and had little feel for rock music, though this would have changed rapidly over the period of time we are talking about. I would imagine OGWT would have attracted those people who were interested in the music and a team developed. Other people have assumed that there was a deterioration in the sound when it was sold/licensed across from the BBC to Yesterday. I assume the BBC would have digitised the material from their masters and this is what was sold, I can't imagine they sent the master tapes.

Yes I know that there may be a lot of issues about transferring recordings, recording technology et al. I tried to recognise that up front without being too long winded, a first for me probably but the bass tones in particular were bad, guitar keys and vox sounded so much better and were presumably suffering the same sonic journey. Yes, I suspect the cabs a lot. I was designing and custom building gear back then, as I do now and I know how the tech has evolved, but I like to think I'm objective and I was still shocked how poor the bass all sounded. I'll see if any of the performances are on youtube if I get time.

Just been watching The Old Grey Whistle Test, sounds of the seventies on Yesterday and I was struck by just how poor the bass sound is in almost every song. All using classic gear which we now rave about. Valve amps and stacks of large speakers. The possible exception is the Ampeg Fridge users that sounded OK at least some of the time. Now something could be lost in translation of course but these were top bands, using then state of the art gear and recorded by the BBC. Almost nothing I heard would pass muster in a pub covers band today in terms of sound quality. In my memory it all sounded fantastic but the reality was that the bass in particular sounded awful in early seventies live recordings. So, was the gear really that good?

Watching this with interest.

Jack plugs are often a bit temperamental. The contacts get dirty, the spring arms bend and jack plugs actually vary quite a lot in size so some plugs and sockets won't work well together. If you've had the socket replaced it isn't impossible it wasn't a duff one or that it wasn't soldered in properly anyway. You've nothing to lose by cleaning the socket, I've even done this with a jack sized roll of 600g wet and dry gently rotated but it sounds like you need to get someone to at least check the soldering, if they are going to resolder it might well be worth replacing the socket anyway as the cost will be mainly labour so a new socket will only add a few quid.

Love your set list, I used to play it pretty much lol. Really miss Dirty Pretty Things, fun bass line compared to the dinosaur rock stuff I'm playing now. We did Gold On The Ceiling too, Jimmy Eat World How about Basket Case American Idiot Local Boy In The Photograph In The Morning; Razorlight Golden Touch Buck Rogers Monster; The Automatic Bohemian Like You Don't Look Back Into The Sun Can't Stand Me Now London Calling (old punk era songs go well with the up tempo stuff you are doing)

If I get time today I'll see if my mate Andy at Axe Music can get hold of one.

The King is Dead, Decemberists. Just full of joy and some lovely work by the bassist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDO4bzFWewk&list=PL559E1711B07598F1

Good advice, I think it's all clear but just in case... I've made the basic assumption from the 'wedding band' bit that you have a good sound out front and a regular sound engineer. From that I've assumed the FOH sound is 'right'. We don't often use the bins but when we have I do hear a lot of enhanced bass. If I was engineering you with this sort of a set up I'd be looking to get most of what the audience hear coming from the PA and getting the sound levels right down on stage, that helps you hear more and cleans up the sound because I get less backline coming through the vocal mics. A good engineer working regularly with a band however will work with the band to give them what they want of course, so long as the physics allows that to happen. If you have an engineer then just chat to them between gigs to see if they can achieve something that works better for you. It may need little more than a tiny tweak of eq on the PA and the same on your bass amp. If you are doing the sound yourselves then all the options the others are suggesting, basically cutting the deep bass from the subs are where to go. On a positive note the few times I've played with my preferred set up (as a bass player, not a sound engineer) with about 40% of my bass coming from the stack and 60% though the PA with a gentle bass roll off on the back line and the opposite boost on the PA it sounded lovely on stage and off, and I could hear everyone else

you are best off replacing it with an identical speaker especialy as it works as one of a pair. It is almost certainly made specially for Laney, so contact them. Failing that it might be worth contacting Celestion, They have an email service branded as Dr Decibel and are pretty helpful. Laney first though.

Sorry it's bad news, there's little you can do as bass frequencies are radiated 360 degrees and as much will go backwards as forwards below a certain frequency. The sound from the speakers is what you are hearing so a blanket won't help. The only solution is to think of your bass stack as a means of monitoring rather than as part of your sound. Use a kickback or a wedge as your on stages peaker, or find some other way of pointing the speaker at your ears. Then roll off the bass so you are only really getting the mids and tops, If you get it right this will combine with the bass you are getting from the subs and give you a balanced sound, the audience will hear you through the PA anyway so you don't need to worry how it sounds out front.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441548095' post='2859687'] Driver size has no bearing on frequency. [/quote] Troublemaker Good advice so far, I can only add a few teccie bits. Deep bass is dominated by reverberation in most venues (the deep bass bounces off walls floors and ceilings and this reinforces the directly radiated sounds) This means you'll need less deep bass in most gigs than you would use practising at home. All speakers start to beam the sound in a narrow cone once the sound has a wavelength less than the diameter of the speaker. For bass this means all the mids are beamed. If you don't point the speakers at your ears you won't hear yourself. On the plus side you can hear more without disturbing the balance by pointing speakers at yourself. (or by pointing the guitarists speakers away from your ears ) When sound levels are high your ears adjust to protect themselves against damaging middle frequencies making everything sound muddy. The best way of hearing more is if everyone turns down. Good luck with that! You'll get better at picking out your bass from the mud just by practice. Just like eavesdropping on an interesting conversation the other side of the room, which I never do of course.

I'm assuming this is just about sharing our thoughts about gear? I kind of think anyone who plays music in public to entertain other people is one of the angels, at least until they demonstrate otherwise! We play in pubs mainly, anything from 20 people to a few hundred. We play all the standard cover band fayre that most of you have probably played too at some time. So we are nothing special, and the pay is crap as you all know. That's just context. This isn't a functions band or anyone young enough to have dreams of 'making it'. I take spares of everything that would stop us playing to every gig, spare leads of every type, the monitors would double as PA speakers or bass speakers and my 'get out of trouble' bit of kit is a little mixer amp borrowed from a broken Yamaha Stagepas PA that will run the PA or double as an instrument amp. I take a spare bass, which I've never needed. Both of our guitarists take spare guitars. I reckon that anyone performing in front of an audience owes that audience a bit of respect. You do your best for them, that means taking decent gear, not necessarily expensive but reliable and at least good enough for the job. I'm lucky in being able to afford to do this, my kids have left home and money isn't tight any more, I wasn't always in that situation and my backup used to be a soldering iron and a tool kit to me the important thing is taking it seriously enough to do your best. I usually have two MIA Fenders with me. They are far better basses than I am bass player and the cheapest Squier would be plenty good enough as a backup, but I get a lot of joy out of owning and playing them.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1441302046' post='2857785'] I'm a regular at open mics, playing acoustic guitar and singing, my singing has improved no end since I started doing them, then my partner joined me on drums (just a snare, hi hat and crash) gives us a common interest (playing music at a pub ) we actually played our first festival at the weekend ( a very small unpaid festival) but neither of us would have got anywhere if it wasn't for open mics. The band I play bass in also got a gig after one we did, someone came up afterwards and asked if we did gigs, no I said but my band does. I don't really understand the hostility to open mics, they're good fun if you enjoy playing live and your playing is bound to improve. [/quote] This, I've been invited to play with other bands at open mics and got gigs for every band I've played with. One of my bands was 'grown' at an open mic. We learned three songs a week and played them at a local open mic until we had a full set, then played our first gig at the pub that ran the open mics. With other friends I've been invited to play at other longer more controlled sessions and even to play on a local radio station. It's also a chance to play stuff the band don't like and to play with people I wouldn't get to play with any other way. If you go with other band members it's a chance to talk without the pressures of a gig or rehearsal. It's all good for me. I've a real desire to perform and a high tolerance of the less able musician so I guess it was always going to be my sort of thing, I understand that if you are a professional musician gigging several times a week it wouldn't be for you but I've never understood the sneering you sometimes hear,

[quote name='anaxcrosswords' timestamp='1441320824' post='2858005'] Well, that was interesting in the weirdest way possible. The guy I’d agreed a few songs with was supposed to meet me at 7:30. As I needed an ATM I set off slightly early so got to our rendezvous about 5 minutes early, just in time to watch him being arrested. I kid you not. Still, had a great night! [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1441322439' post='2858016'] Didn't he come up to the required standard then. [/quote] Brilliant

For the use you describe flats are definitely worth a try. I've noticed problems tuning old strings by ear, I hear off tones, so just as I get there I start hearing other overtones that aren't in tune with the string I'm tuning to. On the digital tuner I can see this happening, the initial note may be in tune but if you leave it vibrating for a couple of seconds it wanders off tuning and eventually settles down to a frequency slightly off the initial one, In extreme cases I see the tuner deciding there is an entirely different note being played, often the fourth above, even when I am damping the other strings. It's reassuring to see a machine seeing what I am hearing. My theory is that the accumulation of dirt on parts of the string means that the mass of the string varies along it's length, the fundamental will be unaffected but the harmonics will be affected when the dirty and massy part of the string is vibrating most. If I am right then when you fret a dirty string the part nearest the bridge will be heavier because of the dirt from your picking fingers, that would lower the note it sounds and explain the need to bend the strings to raise the tone. I've run no controlled tests though and never read anything about this so this is all just conjecture. Has anyone else noticed this? It's much more noticeable on old skinny strings.

New cables sometimes don't work, in this case someone may have not tightened a screw or over tightened it and broken the wires. Simple to check and yes, it is +1 and -1 you need. If you are gigging it is best to carry a spare of every cable, but beg, borrow or steal another speakon and that will eliminate the suspect lead, or not.

After looking at a thread on here I got one of these. http://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-amp-instrument-wireless/pid16092/cid761/line-6-relay-g30-digital-wireless-guitar-system.asp the Line 6 G30. In the end the only question ws whether to get the G50. As everyone says the battery cover is a bit naff and the clip could be more secure, a velcro cable tie would be better but it's been a hundred percent reiable, never had a dropout and is better made than I expected at the price. I use some 2200mAh rechargeables and carry a spare set plus a backup set of Alkaline batteries, The rechargeables last the whole set and then go on and do another 5 hours at home but I make sure they are topped up for every gig (I must put them on for tomorrow in a minute) The sound is cleaner than using even a short high quality lead and the freedom is great, I've even wandered out of the pub and onto the beach at a gig in Teignmouth, a bit eccentric but you've got to try it once

Most bass cabs are pretty coloured, the only way you'll do this practically is to DI through the PA and use another PA speaker as your onstage monitor. You'll have to choose carefully though and probably spend a bit. Many PA speakers have limited excursion because they don't really handle all the bass without a sub, though I suppose you could use a compact sub and a top if you really wanted to go for it. I used to use the basschat 12 in their PA version with a fairly decent horn and it is the best sound I've ever achieved, the problem is knowing which PA speakers have high excursion bass drivers, though if they are active speakers with DSP built in at least you won't blow them.

You guys are making me so jealous

The reality in most of the country is that if you play covers you can gig regularly and get paid, but it can be a grind if you don't enjoy it. Playing 2-3hrs of songs means a lot of hard work refreshing the set and keeping all the songs in the air plus the 6hrs away from home for each gig. It isn't for everyone and not worth an average of £50 if you don't love it. For anyone playing originals the opportunities to gig live are more limited and pretty much something that the under thirties with hopes of success will do. If not then music becomes a hobby, and I'm not looking down of that at all. Lots of musicians a lot more skilled than I are playing at home, releasing music on the web and doing the odd cameo at open mics or other one off 'events'. Gigging dominates my free time and affects my family too, I couldn't do it if i didn't love it. One other alternative suggests itself though. Your musical tastes seem to be for the music of your youth. So many pub bands do the same stuff that you are giving up but there is a market for stuff other than 70's pop/rock. All the audiences want is familiar stuff they can sing and dance to, so you could try to put together a covers band to do the type of songs you like more. You seem pretty clear about what you want to do musically. The things you need to decide are; will I miss performing to an audience, and will I miss playing with other people. Good luck

Sorry I lost track of this because of the holiday period. I'm assuming you have a cab for the Delta as otherwise you wouldn't know it was mid heavy (the peak I mentioned) and the behringer is a new introduction to the thread. You seem to have a range of 15's and a single 12. It's just about impossible from raw data to predict how two speakers will complement or clash with each other. You just need to try all the combinations. My advice is to keep an open mind but also to keep notes. Try them in different rooms if you can and with different basses if these are available. Have a bass playing friend along too to do the listening tests if one is available. If you were designing a cab you wouldn't start like this but with a sound you were aiming for and the intention of finding a driver that would match your design. Mixing speakers isn't wrong in any technical sense but it's more cookery than science. You might stumble across something that tastes (sounds) great but it might be horrid, the only way to test is to suck it and see. If you end up with something that sounds good then it is good. It is fun to try things but most people who swap drivers and cabs around like this are still doing so in twenty years time looking for the elusive perfect match. For most people the best thing is to find the cab that sounds the way they like and buy two if they want it louder. If you are a born tinkerer though you'll have more fun just trying every combination under the sun. Have fun

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1441021846' post='2855362'] I wouldn't worry about it get out there and get playing in a band, its great fun and for me what it's all about I've never had any complaints about my playing and my isolated bass tracks are full of squeaks and strings slapping the fretboard etc... It's inaudible in the mix and if you tired to cut it all out the track would probably sound dead and lifeless. Also, you learn proper muting techniques etc as you go. Go for it, you're probably just as good as the rest of us [/quote] This

Good luck tomorrow.