Phil Starr

Wow we used to have hair

First of all apologies, I have said that I'd write up all the builds as a proper instruction guide and life just hasn't let me get round to it. Last night for example we were rehearsing a new dep drummer, it's always something. I probably spend too much time on BC to be honest but it is fun. Feel free to PM me if you can't find what you need.

Not just me then I buy six way extensions from Lidl then rewire them with a long, more flexible rubber coated black cable from electrical wholesalers or sometimes Screwfix. Four of these, one to run the width of the stage area and two to run up the sides (plus a spare). They are pretty much the first thing I lay down when setting up at a pub gig and everything runs off them. They've been sized to cope with the biggest stages we play on and have to be black.

More speaker area equals better efficiency so more air is moved for each watt. There are other benefits too; each speaker is sharing the load so you can push the amp up a little louder if it goes there without overloading the speakers. That really helps when you push the amp hard or if you boost the bass with your eq. 450W into four identical speakers will be louder than 500W into two. Secondly with each speaker handling less power the coils run cooler and running speakers hot means you get something called power compression as heat changes their impedance. Finally and probably the most significant benefit the taller your stack the better you will hear it. So, there are benefits. The downside is as you say, cost. Those are nice speakers and should be capable of matching a drumkit unless your drummer is a monster. They are also capable of damaging your hearing if you don't wear plugs, so is more volume a great idea? Probably not, it looks like they are 4ohms so simply adding another speaker with your amp is problematic as it won't deal with 2 ohms. Adding another cab of 8ohms gives you a mis-match and one cab, If you add 12's as you suggest, will change your sound entirely and unpredictably. The sound might be better, more likely worse but it will be different. If you want the same sound but louder then add matching speakers which will mean two 8ohm cabs and more expense. Honestly I'd live with what you have unless you no longer like the sound or are regularly struggling for more sound. At the very least that gives you time to really look around or until the GAS subsides.

Hi John, welcome to BassChat. You've probably seen the classifieds here, you have to pay a subscription if you want to sell but anyone can buy of course. You can check people's reputations on the site but as a marketplace it scores pretty highly for trustworthiness. We are all enthusiasts and want others to be enthusiastic so we look after each other and anyone who abuses that trust soon gets the message. I've yet to have a bad experience, most people are more than helpful. If you are new to bass it's worth asking for advice and giving your budget or even asking if something is a good buy. You'll get warnings about anything that is poor value and lots of suggestions what to look out for.

Don't knock it until you've tried it My duo have just moved to using programmed drums. In our situation it is so liberating. Like a lot of guitarist/singers his timing was awful, that's fine as a soloist because the voice and guitar change pace at the same time but it makes it impossible for anyone else to play with you. I spent gigs just concentrating on the 'dramatic' time shifts. I've also played with the usual mix of drummers who often speed up or drag on the beat. Playing with a machine completely frees you up to concentrate on the audience and your own playing. The click track tightens up the whole band and the audience react to that because it creates that trust in what you are doing and dancing is so much easier if the beat is reliable. For me it just feels as if the music flows out rather than being forced, more natural in a funny sort of way. Of course it's not for every song or every band, and there is a learning curve, but is it robotic and a barrier between you and the audience? Absolutely not

You're being quite modest here Steve, the Pretty Things were quite a big deal for people of my vintage. One time rivals of the Rolling Stones in the art college scene around my part of South London and Jagger and Richards were part of their family tree. Sadly I was just too young to be allowed out to the gigs at the college in Bromley. Rosalyn was an early favourite of mine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Things

Dave I have to say going for a digital mixer whichever you choose is such a step up, just being able to store the mix for your bands is worth it but you get so much more. Once you've worked your way along the learning curve you'll love it. have fun.

Hi Smanth. this looks like two questions to me. How do I get a good sound out of a battery powered amp? How do I make best use of the amp sims on my pedal board? Getting the sound out of your pedal board through your Boss Dual Cube is going to be quite compromised. It won't be as flat as a PA speaker but it is hard to think of something commercially available that is battery powered that will. Power is an issue with just 12V to play with a conventional amplifier will only really give 5W, it is possible to bridge the amps (basically using two amps in a push/pull arrangement) to get 20W and there are amps out there that will give you 4x20W commonly used in car stereos. Beyond this you can use switch mode/digital electronics to turn 12V into a higher voltage to give more power. The cheapest way to do this is a car amplifier module as David has suggested. It was what he had in his combo at the SW Bass Bash. It did sound good. Using amp sims means using a flat response speaker to get the best out of them. Typically the sim just mimics the frequency response of the original system so adding a few db of variation from a non flat amp just undoes some of the good work. However don't let the search for perfection be the enemy of the good. Using a non flat bass amp with a sim might mean it doesn't sound exactly like an A****g but if it sounds amazing who cares You talked about the Bass Chat designs Two of them look good and would be great driven by your pedals and David's car amp. The House Jam combo https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/455858-house-jam-micro-cab/ which I designed with the 6" speaker is what I use for portable work with a Warwick Gnome, It's the size but not the shape of a large hand bag. The response is flat from 80Hz-8,000Hz which covers most of a bass guitar but with a bit of bass missing as you'd expect from a tiny speaker. This is it, recorded on a phone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_J8r5QAu3g The other build option would be the 10" lockdown build that Stevie designed. https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/445743-basschat-easy-build-lockdown-cab-project/ It's a lot bigger but still an easy one handed carry. The response is a lot flatter than many so called FRFR bass speakers and it's the speaker I use most of all. Both of these would work really well with a 100W car audio amp running off a 12V battery Hope that helps

Hi Jake from the GK Legacy manual Theoretically the power should double as the impedance halves but like most amps this one won't quite double the power into 4 ohms. I would imagine the limit is the power supply current. If the power supply is limited to 800W then ultimately so is the amp so you'll get roughly 800W into anything lower than 4 ohms.

Sorry I should have said message me if you had specific questions. I've not been following this thread closely and only check in if someone quotes me or tags me. It's probably too late as you've ordered the XR18. It's a good choice and scores over the M18 on flexibility every time. I wanted to report back on my practical experiences with the M18 a year on, as the last time I said anything I'd only just started using it and was still thrilled with my new toy. Now it's just another tool for the band but it has just gone on delivering with quiet efficiency so I'm still pleased with it. I've never tried stereo monitoring but you can do it by using two aux channels, there are You Tube videos on this. I've never used the headphone output other than as a monitor for the main mix or to troubleshoot a single channel so I can't answer your implied question on how flexible that is as an extra monitor channel. If you wanted more than three stereo channels at the same time I'd be looking for something with more auxes and probably that means more busses. The M18 saves settings to the mixer. I've used three generations of iPad with it Originally my wife's gen 2, then one of the new ones which still has the headphone out and for backup my duo partners even more ancient one, they all work smoothly without a dropout so far. I remember trying out the software before I bought it and not everything worked without the mixer present so maybe that is why you crashed when using it. I've had zero problems so far and a lot of updates are for security reasons and operating offline would remove the need for a lot of these. I'm not someone who looks down at Behringer, I had a Behringer mixer and PA amps and they were great and problem free. A previous band had the X32 which was fabulous if somewhat large for a pub band. I didn't have to operate it but set up times seemed interminable when we used it. I think a rational choice between these two is simple. You are trading the ability to record multiple channels and flexibility in the Behringer for simplicity and slicker software in the M18 plus a reliable router, so less to carry. Behringer also sell add-ons so you can add in a control surface with real sliders and the P16 if you want to extend your monitoring abilities. I really thought seriously about the Behringer but realised all the extras were things I wouldn't use down the Dog and Duck and extra complexity was a trade off against quicker set up times and concentrating on playing not tech. make no mistake these are both great choices.

I don't understand why you haven't asked Ashdown directly. they really are very helpful

I looked at all of the available options except the Zoom which was released later than the others. The M18 is a lot less versatile than the others being designed for just one job but on the plus side it does that job really well. It's designed for the gigging band. Everything (router, power supply) is in one box and everything works. I've never had a dropout from the router even when I forget the external antenna and it will work from a couple of rooms away, though at gigs you always have line of sight Rock solid. On top of that it sounds really good, I didn't get to try the others for sound but when I swapped out my old Yamaha MG mixer there was a really noticeable improvement in the sound from the mics. The control software is where it really scores though, everything is where you would expect it to be and the workflow is well thought out for a gigging band. Nothing is more than two clicks away, the panic button to get you back to FOH is on every screen and all the buttons are big so hitting them when playing is a breeze. All of the volume sliders have a 1db tap feature so just tapping the slider adjusts it up or down a notch so no chance of clumsy over adjustment when you are tweaking in the middle of a song. Everything like eq and compression have a 'simple' setting so you can have fully parametric or bass,mid,treble on the tones or a simple one knob compression if you want or full control if you prefer. (at a recent gig I got a friend of a friend and a professional sound engineer to mix as he was at the party and looking bored, he was trying to beat the programmed one knob compression and reckoned it was well implemented). Best of all everything you need to twiddle is big on the screen so easy to see and adjust under live conditions. Basically there is real attention to detail and for a small live band it is really well sorted. The down side is that they have made some decisions for you. There are two dedicated instrument channels and they are the only ones with high impedance inputs and the full suite of amp and speaker sims. We use external multi-fx anyway so I've never used them live. There are only really eight true mic channels (none of my bands have ever used more than four vocal mics so not an issue for me, but you'd struggle with a choir) We have electronic drums but I personally wouldn't use more than 3 mics on a kit anyway, just for set up time issues. The issue is that if you were using the M18 with a new band you'd have to plan where you plugged things in, you can't treat all the input channels as the same. For me it's a machine for a particular job, I play in a duo and have never played in anything other than 3,4 or 5 piece pub bands. I rarely have anyone mixing FOH and set up and break down time needs to be quick and simple. I'm playing bass, mixing and dealing with all the technical stuff for the band so simplicity and functionality is king. This just works for me, for a small gigging band with a band member mixing it's a no-brainer.

Remember that these are only a small step down from the LFSys Silverstone which is a £600 speaker and which outperforms the Barefaced BB2 in our Bass Chat shootouts.

I was also going to suggest an elf/gnome/BAM also but a BD1 21 offers a much cheaper option and will sound really quite good. (aha see you don't like the BD121) In between those two options is the Zoom B1-Four which also offers cab and amp simulations and a tuner amongst other things. If you can't get a good sound out of these then something is wrong.

They do add a little bit of magic to your sound don't they? A bit like salt and pepper they are an all purpose seasoning, not changing the dish dramatically but just making your bass tastier I don't think there is a straight answer to your question of a best fit. I use the DI out straight to the PA, that is what the audience hears and a flat response/FRFR speaker (LfSys Silverstone) for my monitoring if I need it. my theory is that I want to hear pretty much what the audience is hearing. I use in-ears when I can and that also gives me a clean sound. I quite like the clean sound coming out of my bass and the SansAmp does all my tone shaping. I use the blend control to just add a little seasoning to my sound so it's quite subtle, just enough to get me into the mix.

There is probably no other rational place to be. Morality or even taste aren't subjects for objective measurement or double blind testing, there isn't an objective right or wrong so people who are 'certain' that no song with the sexism/racism/whatever 'ism you choose is acceptable if it is a good 'toon' are displaying no more insight than those who wish to cancel those who offend their personal creed and sense of decency. It's only reasonable to struggle with this and the interesting bit of this debate are about where the lines are for each of us who are also wondering where to set our personal lines. Playing in a band means compromise. No two people share the same moral space IME so the chances of four or five band members who have nothing in common other than music agreeing on every song are pretty long odds. There are very few artists or songs that are completely repugnant amongst thousands that are wildly popular and fun to play so it isn't a big issue. It is interesting though to discuss with those who like me are 'indecisive'.

I'd completely forgotten about this cab. It will be great to hear what you think of it when completed. Good luck with the build.

I can't remember what the cable was that you sent me for my guitar lead John but it is super slinky and reeks of quality. I don't know how i can have pride in owning a bit of wire but it is lovely.

I played until quite recently, village cricket which is the lowest level but fun. Vicious game really; that ball is hard and it's a legitimate tactic for the bowler to intimidate the batter by aiming at them. I'm a modest bowler but still sent people off to the minor injuries unit at hospital every now and then. Had a few injuries to my hands too so I played Sundays to avoid having to play bass with recently bruised or broken fingers. Funnily enough Cricket is what brought me to bass playing, I wasn't very good but the team won when I played and not so much when I wasn't available. Now I'm the musician that fills a hole in the team, and they can't do it without me either

All of the above, plus a bit more. When you turn the volume up our hearing changes the way we hear different frequencies boosting our perception of bass (and also the extreme highs which aren't relevant to bass) so to keep the same sound you need to roll bass off when the volume goes up. Being close to most bass speakers means you get less of the midrange than the audience as the mids and highs are directional. If you go out front you might be pleasantly surprised at what the audience are hearing. Tilting your speaker and pointing it at your head will help as will raising your speaker to head height. If you can then push the bass out through the PA and just use mid heavy on-stage monitoring for yourself. In terms of sitting in the mix and occupying the 'correct' bit of your sonic space have a listen to some of the isolated bass tracks in You Tube. It's quite a shock to hear how tinny some recorded bass can be yet still sound good in the final mix. And don't worry, we've all found this out the hard way and welcome to Bass Chat

Love the band Al

A lot of us use the Zoom B1-four https://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-b1-four-bass-multi-effects-pedal/924373 £80 runs on batteries or USB, sounds great, mini jack input for playing along, cab and amp emulation, tuner, metronome, drum machine etc, etc. and of course it is a multi-fx unit you can use at a gig. I've been using my B1ON the predecessor pretty much every day for years

They lost me a bit when they talked about the "air between the amps and mics" being responsible for the change in sound. That's too fairy dust for me. I persevered and it looks like this is just the guitarist and with the amps he's running stereo but with the modeller in mono. Um it could be that guys To be fair when you look at how they mic'd the cabs you are going to get different tones as you move the mic around and mics aren't flat response and they had to change mic's at one point. Then they talked about mids and bass (on the guitar) and the different eq they were getting. Um, no eq available in their modeller? This was comparing apples and pears and yes, they are different! the other thing is that this is a touring band with not just one sound person but separate mixing for FOH and monitors and probably a team of engineers, I can't see any stage monitors so presumably they are still using in-ears. Come to that the bassist didn't seem to have a bass amp and they didn't talk about that or what the keys were using for amplification. They still had the on stage problems with the volume of the guitar amps and this was "outdoors and on large stages" not the Dog and Duck.

We seem to have wandered off your problem @Lozz196 Sorry to hear about your back problems So the on stage sound? Is that just as a monitor for you and maybe the band, or is this to fill the room because sometimes you can't go through the PA? I suppose I'm asking how loud you'd need to be. Also what is your potential budget? A lot of the active PA speakers are quite heavy. I've gigged with an RCF 310 and that's about as small as you can usefully go but they are over 12kg, most are bigger and heavier than that.