Phil Starr

That's true, they are really helpful and I know people here have used those designs. Unfortunately other manufacturers aren't so helpful so comparisons with the other ranges isn't covered. I guess that's the advantage of having a stable range of products. One up for the USA.

I've just weighed the 30l easy build and with a beyma fitted it's 11.4 kg. If you fitted the faital 320 it would save you around 1.9kg so 9.5kg and you might be able to save a further kg using poplar ply. If you got it down to 8.5 kg that would only be a kg more than the Barefaced One 10. It would be 2-3db louder too. So is it the size that concerns you? There aren't any definitive guides to drivers out there and that's why a group of us have been designing things on here on BassChat, it gives you the chance to build something with a high probability of success with a tested design. Designing speakers is not rocket science and there is all the information you need out there but it does involve a lot of knowledge. If you are looking for smaller than the 30l cab then you are probably going to be limited to a single 10. If that's what you absolutely want I'm sure people on BC would help you with that design process.

Is this nominative determinism? How light are you thinking? The long thread on Stevie's 1x12 design will give you a lightweight cab at about 14kg, that's not in Barefaced 1x10 category but it's an easy one hand carry. Alternatively you could use the Faital neo driver Stevie used in the 'Easy Build' 1x12 that I designed. that would not just be lighter but crucially would be an easier carry because it is so small. if you used poplar ply I reckon you could come in just under 10kg.

Just broken my normal gigging amp so am back to my spare, Hartke HA3500. My goodness it's a good sounding amp and the tone control options are second to one, don't worry about the power either even into 8ohms it's way louder than I need to match the rest of the band. Mind you those Peaveys are good, I don't think you can go wrong here.

That's probably why I'm still using the Mark1 cab. It covers up a lot of sins.

Reading through this I think a PA monitor could be right for you too this would be my pick at £300 https://www.thomann.de/gb/rcf_art_312_a_mk_iv.htm#bewertung Having said that I've used a really old Hartke kickback 10 for this purpose, you have to filter out a little bass with the tone controls but I found it perfectly adequate.

Congratulations you are lucky enough to work with a technically competent guitarist. He is moving in the right direction and you should all follow him if you possibly can. Old fashioned backline does work in the sense that the audience can actually hear the band and it is so technically simple it is (usually) set up properly. That's about it, the mix is only usually good in one spot in the room. Because the backline is producing all the sound for the audience it is loudest on stage making it way harder for the band to hear properly with knock on effects on how they play. It damages their hearing and the high sound levels are picked up by the vocal mics so a muddy delayed sound goes through the PA and degrades the audience experience. If you are happy to work towards it then the next step is to sort out FRFR monitors (just monitors really) for each band member and feed everything the audience hears to the PA. Our band use RCF ART310's as monitors, they are relatively small, just over £200 when we bought them and can even handle modest amounts of bass. That's cheaper than most bass combo's and if the whole point is to get the on stage levels down it should be enough. Bass spills back from the PA anyway so you only need the mids through your monitors. Putting bass and kick through the monitors does mean knowing they can handle it. Subs will help but they are over the top for a lot of pub gigs. You can get away with a single sub and most decent PA speakers now will handle enough bass (Think QSC/RCF/Yamaha/EV/dB etc) Obviously this might mean rethinking but you too could go Pre into FRFR and use that as a conventional bass amp if you have to for other bands. There is a long and informative thread on FRFR here on basschat. If funds are tight then you could move your bass amp forward in front of the mic line for a while. Times have changed, PA is much cheaper and more competent than 20 years ago, it makes no sense to be carrying huge backline. All we need now is quieter drums

It's a great way of doing things. because I experiment a lot with speakers I have a conventional bass amp but with my duo I use a Zoom as a pre and modeller into a couple of RCF 310's which also do our vocal monitoring. Sounds lovely and less to carry. you just have to remember there are no magic pixies. Two tens are two tens, you aren't going to get loud, deep and cheap at the same time so they have the same limitations as any other 2x10 as far as bass output is concerned but a couple of high quality PA speakers are going to match your Alain Caron. A couple of cheap ones not so much.

Another bit of phone footage then, Steve on keys didn't get the memo about black T-shirts. think he was going for a Dennis Taylor look.

I'd back up the love for the Ashdown, my first amp was a MAG and it proved reliable and did just what is said on the tin. I can also vouch for the fantastic after sales that Ashdown offer even on gear bought used, they really couldn't be more helpful. Having said that I own a Wharfedale PA system and it is nicely made, great sounding and reliable. It is quite old but even so when some idiot sound engineer used an incorrectly wired lead to pump 40+ volts of phantom power into the subs with the volume up full blowing the speaker Wharfedale came up with a replacement speaker, return of post at a very reasonable price. Again an old established company that treat their customers well. I've had a look at the bass speakers in PMT Bristol and they look to be really well made and at a silly price. My vote would still be for the used Ashdown though

I think that's fair Al. I actually spent a few minutes listening to those clips in the video jumping back and forth to compare like with like. With headphones and jumping straight back and forth there is a little difference. Our ears (actually our brains) are tuned to detect differences so A/B testing does emphasize change. Even so the held note at the end of the first bit of bass is so much cleaner with the Thumpinator. In a live performance with variable room acoustics and the rest of the band going I think the only differences would be a cleaner more defined sound.

I'll give it a go Al The energy going into the speaker is coming from the amp, about 4% is going to be converted into sound and the rest into heat. Most of the heat is transferred across the magnetic gap and ends up being dissipated into the air by the magnet assembly and to a lesser extent the frame. A smaller proportion is lost into the air around the coil and some speakers use the cone movement to move air through the gap to increase heat loss. All of the coil carries the same current but the bit in the magnet gap runs cooler as the distance to the heat conducting magnet is small. Having the coil largely out of the gap can lead to overheating so not a good thing. the other thing that can destroy a speaker with over excursion happens if the coil makes contact with the back of the magnet assembly. The HPF will have two effects, it reduces the electrical power below the cut off frequency which is good, although not usually a large effect and it will reduce excursion as you can see keeping the coil safely inside the magnet gap. It will also reduce distortion because the coil is operating in the linear part of the magnetic field for more of the time and by reducing doppler effects.

Ha ha, I was 55 when I started playing bass. I've been in bands pretty much ever since. I actually don't really get why people would play bass other than to be in a band. Music for me is to be enjoyed and shared. Bass in particular is about how music fits together to make a whole which you hope is greater than the sum of it's parts. It's rarely a solo or lead instrument and so much more fun when working with a drummer. Working with other people can be an issue, usually fun but sometimes really frustrating and you have to compromise; sometimes quite a lot So what are your options? Join a covers band? There is a limited choice of songs, you have to go where the money and audiences are but immediately you have a hobby that pays for itself, people tell you that you are wonderful when the reality for me is that I'm just about OK but watching a room full of people dancing to the rhythm in your fingers well that is a blast! You don't want to compromise what you play? Maybe you can't afford that level of commitment, 30+ songs take a lot of learning and keeping up to performance standard (I practice every day) and a gig can take 6hours out of your day which is a big chunk out of every weekend. Well it's still fun playing with other people. Just playing half a dozen songs over a few beers with mates is a nice way to spend an evening and you'll inevitably end up doing the odd jam at a party sooner or later. If your mates don't play then there are loads of open mics around. Go along have a listen and chat with anyone who plays songs you fancy a go at and see if anyone bites. Talk to the organiser and they might be able to match you up with someone. I run a kind of open session for people whose lives are too full to cope with proper gigging bands. It's tough to find time if you have a family and a job. There's loads of really good musicians who can play to a high standard but just want a run out once a month or even once a year, but it makes the hours of nurdling away on their own worth it and every now and then some of my musicians do go off and form bands. Good luck, get out there, persevere until you find what you want and yes, you may have to kiss a few frogs on the way

One of the nice thigs about Eminence is that they are forthcoming about their specs and how they are measured. If you go on their website then have a look at the frequency charts, as Bill says they are averaged but have a look at the frequency graph above (roughly) 200Hz and see if there are any big bumps and where they are. Any humps will push the sensitivity up but if they are frequencies you don't want then that isn't very useful and you may be tweaking eq to take them down. Ignore the low frequency response below 200Hz as that is determined by the test conditions they use. You asked the technical question. Sensitivity depends upon cone area, the strength of the magnet system, the mass of the cone, the resistance of the suspension to cone movement and the amount of the voice coil that is inside the magnetic field. All of these interact with other parts of the performance of the speaker. The cone needs to be heavy for bass but massive is harder to shift, the coil needs to be long for bass but that means it is mainly outside of the magnetic field so some of the power is lost. The mass of the cone and suspension change the tuning of the speaker at bass frequencies and so on. In the end a speaker tuned low and with good extension is going to be less efficient just because of the basic mechanics. You can compensate for this by putting in a really good magnet system to compensate. Hence the rule that you can't have cheap, loud and deep all at the same time

Ah but the bass to Stay With Me makes up for it

Ronnie was a bit of a hero of mine growing up. Always loved the Small Faces, I've always enjoyed a well written pop song and the band always had a sense of fun about them as well as being a great rock band. I briefly met Ronnie when I played the disco at a Slim Chance gig in Reading. They say never meet your heroes but he was a real gentleman, a lovely warm human being. Actually stayed and danced the rest of the night after the gig. Actually sent his girlfriend over to ask for a couple of songs, I wish I could remember what they were. Couldn't believe it when I found out soon after about his illness, there's no doubt about it, he was a wonderful person as well as a great bassist.

This is where the science doesn't help too much, different experts and different bassists will disagree about what sounds best. I don't like an instrument speaker to be too strong at 50Hz, Those frequencies are poorly heard and few people will notice if you simply filter out at 24db/octave at 50hz. Trading a little loss of the fundamental for less chance of exciting room resonances and cleaning up the onstage sound is something I would do every time. When I designed the Basschat Mk1 speaker a flat response down as low as possible was something people asked for. I've been gigging with that speaker on and off for a few years and I almost always eq out the low bass and then apply a little boost around 80-120 Hz to get the sound I personally prefer. At a recent bass bash we had a shootout which included a Markbass 12 with just such a response, half the room loved it and half hated it. It's a Marmite thing. I'd say though that you probably don't want anything bigger than a 3db peak at most, that's going to really colour your sound, that disqualifies the Emi in the small cab for me and the Celestion needs a bigger cab too IMO. WinISD will tell you the response, it can't tell you if you'll like it. The other thing to consider though is that most of the character of the speaker will be in it's mid range response where our hearing is very sensitive. It's worth your while looking carefully at the published responses.

And then report back on how it gigs

I'm looking at the 735's or the 732's probably. The 745's are just a bit too steep for me.

Just looked them up the 12" top is £950 and they use B&C drivers and some of their own. Cabinets are wooden not plastic. Yeah I liked the Elixirs, have you tried Blue Steels either way it's definitely worth it to have your strings at the sweet point in their lifespan for longer. I'm going to sell my PA and upgrade to RCF's I think. The 310's we use as monitors are perfect, just no trouble and sound great. The 735's and 745's are so pricey though..

Well I saw Skidder's band The Jefferson Archive last night. They were seriously loud (and seriously good I have to say) No backline apart from the guitarist's stack, everything going through the house's FBT PA with subs and Steve (Skidder) had his RCF on the floor in front of him as a monitor. The drummer uses a butt-kicker. The guy mixing (the manager of the venue and a musician himself) knew what he was doing and the bass and drums were really well forward in the mix and sounded immense. I've never heard the bass sounding better, absolutely full and rich but sitting nicely in the mix, really driving sound. Steve had some fx on his board but I didn't have time to find out what he was using. the Archive are a seriously impressive full ahead rock band think Zeppelin/Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac/Focus all of which were in their opening medley. Anyone who thinks that sound can't be nailed without backline, well they are just wrong. Mind you my Hartke did sound good the other night

5.9"

One last tip, open the project twice and change the colour of the second plot. Then when you make changes you can compare the results with the original plot. Then you can change the volume of the cab and the tuning frequency of the cabinet if you've gone for a ported cab. Win ISD calculates a maximally flat response with good bass extension (sort of) The problem is that you will usually want something more portable than the ideal for frequency response. You can do the same trick for comparing different drivers in the same cab as all the frequency curves and so on are displayed on a single graph.

Does the amp have any fx sockets. They can cause problems if they corrode and a bit of switch cleaner and wiggling a jack in and out may clean up the contacts. It's simple enough so worth a try