4 Strings

EQ for clarity is, I suppose, the subject of another thread and I'm sure it would run and run. However, a lot of amps add from 0. ie, turn all the tone control (or graphic sliders) to zero and the amp goes silent. Knocking too much of anything off will not just sound quieter, it will be quieter. Some create their happy smile by just dropping the mids, their amp will be quieter than flat. Might need to up the Master at that point. (I realise when you say '3', you mean 3 O'Clock which is a hefty boost!) Of course the only real answer to be loud and punch through is to plug in a Stingray!

[quote name='chris_b' post='881935' date='Jun 30 2010, 01:55 PM']On an outdoors gig you aren't hearing any sound reflections so you'll sound much quieter than you expect. You might need to turn up but you definitely will need to add more punch in the way of low mids and mids. "I've never had a problem with my Acoustic stuff, despite only being 125w (4ohms) or 175w (2ohms)": This is a very small rig for an outdoors gig. "Ashdown is not as loud as 300w suggests": I think you are right. "Cheap speakers are not very efficient": You are right. "Guitarists with large valve amps need to be educated": Get your rig right first. "It was because it was an open-sided marquee, and in an indoor gig situation things would be different": You are right. My thoughts would be to get a quality 500 watt amp and a good 410 or 210. You will then be right for all types of gig.[/quote] Could try just adding the 210 to the bass bins (its all money in the end!) as a start.

If something can't be heard, my mantra for mixing is to listen to everything else to see why before making anything louder. Any 300W bass amp that's been honestly rated should be loud enough for all but big festivals it is likely the problem is elsewhere. I have a 350W rig and I can't go anywhere near it at much above half volume. Guitar valve amps are deafening from 30W upwards. With 4x12s being used, are they simply too loud or even just too bassy to allow your bass to cut through, ie you competing for the same frequencies as someone else? Is your own sound muddy and indistinct (PA bass bins are not designed to give distinction, just low down whoomph, the distinction stuff comes with the other speakers in a PA)? Is it 'clanky' and similar to the guitar frequencies? I would try amp different settings (if you use them), experiment with a different guitar if you can, swap the bass amps so you use the Ashdown with the Acoustic cabs. Meanwhile, setting about the long term task of getting the guitarists to turn down a bit. (My hunch is that its the bass bins you're using, either really inefficient in terms of sound/W or in terms of reproducing the sounds you expect/want to hear where you are standing, try different cabs.)

Well, looks like I need to have the mic pointing upwards, downwards, up high, down low....! Thanks for all this, seems there isn't a 'best' way so I'm gong to have some fun finding the 'best' for the day. I must say, I like the idea (also mentioned in an article by another chap) of moving my ears around and placing the mic where it simply sounds best! Just hope we can get a sound we're both happy with before to much valuable time has passed. Thanks again, any other advice, keep it coming...

That's great, thanks. Can you remember the difference in tone between the two? My only experience was of a student performance once and he had a piezo. It sounded very thin, it was all there, nice and crisp, but didn't give that lovely body in the sound. I suggested to use a mic (which the sound guy humbly did!) as well as the piezo and it made the world of difference. May have been a cheap piezo unit. We pointed the mic roughly at the F hole, as you suggest. The room is quite dead but I like the idea of the 4-5 feet away. A violinist once suggested this for his violin (well, 3 ft!). He said it allowed the harmonics to form without picking up too much scratching, which you wouldn't otherwise hear unless you put your ear to the strings. Not sure about the harmonics bit, but I trusted him, did mean absolute silence though as the gain goes up!

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='880015' date='Jun 28 2010, 04:21 PM']I think the hypothetical concept is getting lost now. Perhaps we should rename the thread... [b]Imaginary place with an infinite amount of possible amenities, excruciatingly and somewhat ironically the only rule is "you're only allowed one of your basses" bass[/b]. [/quote] Apologies. Really I should stay faithful to my Jaydee, but currently I wouldn't be without my 1979 Stingray. (Pic from previous owner, now has black scratchplate and generally shinier).

I wouldn't be able to take any of mine as they are all electric. If I was stranded from an ocean liner maybe the ship band had an upright I could pinch and spend my days learning to play properly. Otherwise it would have to be sea-bass only.

I have a little project which will include a bit of double bass recording. The player has a totally acoustic bass (no piezos etc) and I have an old, large diaphragm c ondenser mic and an SM58 type. The interface has two inputs. Doesn't need to be stereo, the track is an ambient sort with minimal instrumentation and playing. I therefore can't just use the old Precision with flats, I want that airy, deep sound with all the body of a db played with fingers. I'll have the bass and player in two weeks, I can have him for two evenings which are a week apart so I can't leave him set up in the meantime. I also don't have much time to experiment and he doesn't have much recording experience himself. Never done this before, any advice, experiences, pearls of wisdom etc would be gratefully appreciated.

Just a thought, why do you not connect the second cab from your amp instead of the daisy chain? Less contacts for the signal path and halves the signal going through the first lead. More reliable as if the first lead goes down the second cab is still running. (Impedance should be the same as the speaker through socket should put the second in parallel anyway.) Speakons are designed for speaker signal and connection whereas jack are general purpose. To this end its +1 from to the locking and extra contact area and also +1 for putting a speakon in your 2nd cab. No need for for more than one type of connector then.

[quote name='owen' post='879359' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:31 PM']I had never heard about these, I read a thread about them, watched some youtube vids and bought one within 18 hours. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM[/url][/quote] Thanks for the thoughts on these, look very useful for getting something like a db sound on a recording without actually hiring one and a player, albeit rather costly. I would think about one for quite a bit less. As a side comment, I notice the guy in the little video plays with his thumb and forefinger position rather like Jamerson's 'Hook'. Seems a natural position for people used to db playing to adapt to a bass guitar (or uke!) except the thumb now dangles in mid-air instead of being rooted on the edge of the fingerboard.

[quote name='owen' post='879359' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:31 PM']I had never heard about these, I read a thread about them, watched some youtube vids and bought one within 18 hours. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNPx6RS8PiM[/url][/quote] Thanks for the thoughts on these, look very useful for getting something like a db sound on a recording without actually hiring one and a player, albeit rather costly. I would think about one for quite a bit less. As a side comment, I notice the guy in the little video plays with his thumb and forefinger position rather like Jamerson's 'Hook'. Seems a natural position for people used to db playing to adapt to a bass guitar (or uke!) except the thumb now dangles in mid-air instead of being rooted on the edge of the fingerboard.

I think I fit in with most on Stevie Wonder, ie admire the musicians and the performances but can cringe a bit. I really like a lot of the songs but I Just Called makes me whince. I wouldn't have missed it, I love watching him and aspire to that elite level but I don't believe I have any of his records. For those that don't know it, its worth Googling the story of Nate's involvement with Stevie, great story. One of my heroes.

[quote name='Musicman20' post='879355' date='Jun 27 2010, 11:24 PM']On superstition it appears Nate took his bass off to play keys! It was really noticeable.[/quote] That's because Superstition has a keyboard bass, played by SW originally. Also, its in Eb, but then I think there's enough Eb in SWs set to make Nate detune his bass by a semi-tone, as I understand.

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='875452' date='Jun 23 2010, 02:30 PM']No-one will be able to shift big heavy speakers. The value will plummet. People will realise there is a sound difference between heavy and light. The heavy sound will become retro and cool. Price will skyrocket.[/quote] Absolutely, we'll have people talking about the original, thin tolex letting the 'sound out' from old heads. In reality there will always be a value for quality heavy stuff as bigger DOES sound better for bass - can't substitute volume (as in cu m) for depth and weight in sound - but only as long as its good in the first place. Just be circulating among fewer people than a couple of years ago. I must admit, I'm always more excited when I go to see a band, even in a pub, and see a proper bass rig. This one will ALWAYS excite me!

[quote name='Delberthot' post='870353' date='Jun 17 2010, 11:02 PM']They do look nice and compared to what I've been looking for are great value but are a bit jazzy for me - I may see if he can do me something more 'normal'[/quote] Just let him know what you want, he'll do as 'normal' as you like, put in straplock holes and any other detail you want

I must admit my first thought was, if you know little about Fenders, how do you know you want something as specific as you describe? But that's not my business. Lfalex's response is wise and, if you're anything like me, you won't be able to help yourself finding out tons of info about what you're after. Safest way is from established dealers (they may be able to find one for you too!) as they will not want to lose their reputation. For this peace of mind you'll not be paying bargain prices. Also safest is from someone who can be recommended (on here etc). Last place (for safety) is untried from ebay. If it helps, fakes are normally easily spotted by the collected detailed knowledge represented by those here and from stuff you can get on the net. Keep us in touch, ask on here for opinions on what you find and I'm sure you'll end up with a great bass.

Try this guy I recommended here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85940"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85940[/url] He'll make whatever it is that you want.

[quote name='Kongo' post='518570' date='Jun 19 2009, 04:40 PM']Buy the Ibanez, leave the Tanglewood![/quote] I would say 'try them both'. Ibanez has a great reputation for its expensive guitars (not so for some of the plywood cheaper ones) but tanglewood has only the reputation for the cheaper guitars. the Canyon 2 and 3 are not cheap (unless you can find one cheap somewhere, they are around) but really are very nice, I can't recommend them highly enough if you like that sort of bass. My lad has one, won't let anyone touch it - its round his neck most of the day anyway!. Its beautifully made, wide range of very good sounds and plays very nicely indeed. For rrp they are in the upper regions and hold their own, they sometimes crop for bargain prices in which case it would be a steal. If you can hack having 'Tanglewood' written on your bass they are definitely worth a try for, I believe, a pleasant surprise.

"As for amplification, my rig has been a gradual evolution over 25 years from cheap Laney gear, through lots of Trace Elliot, Ashdown, Mark Bass and finally onto Genz Benz. I don't really GAS for amplifiers. As long as they're reliable, light weight and faithfully reproduce the sound of my instruments, I'm not really fussed." I think this was similar to Victor Wootens 'recommendation' of Hartke.

See, now with active basses it all goes to pot (excuse the pun!). With my Jaydee its bass and treble at ~90%, middle at ~75%. With the Stingray its bass at ~75% and the treble either 100% with the Trace combo at church or 50% with the Hartke. ie even if the amp is 'flat' the bass isn't. I suppose that's why we choose our basses, we like their sound. Perhaps a better question would have been 'Do we vary our sound more by our playing or our eq settings? Definitely the former for me (although I must admit I love to whack up the treble on the Stingray for a bit of slap fun, not in performances though).

Yep, don't offer opinions unless it is somehow 'your' band. Just made that mistake recently, found out it wasn't 'my' band in any shape. Having had musicians do work for me on a project, I would say: - Turning up on time - Having the ability to do what's asked with aplomb but not with 'extras' - Only offering alternatives once the original idea is in the bag (and remembering who's project it is and not flouncing off if ideas aren't taken) - Discipline, would people please stop mucking about and stopping to make 'jokes' when there's work to be done. Funny things always crop up naturally, which is great, and there's always down time for fun. I hate wasting time. - Respect for everyone else involved. Arrogance doesn't last long as it is quickly followed by being on your own. Having others working for you teaches the priorities of what's expected and helps when you're working for others' projects.

"As a rule of thumb I try amps by setting everything at 12 oclock with all the bells and whistles switched off. If the basic tone I get pleases me I'm happy. If I have to swing on the knobs to get it somewhere like I'm not happy." I remember in a band a long while ago the keyboardist was offered an old Marshall 50W guitar valve amp and thought it would be a cool thing to use. To get it sounding neutral he was wanting to use a graphic eq in the signal path otherwise it was boxy sounding. I told him that to change the signal so much meant it wasn't the right amp. He agreed and bought a 200W Frunt (remember those!) bass amp I was selling instead, much better all round! (The Marshall was pre-master volume and so about a hundred quid, be ten times that now!)

There are quite a few differences to the Stingrays of the time apart from the extra pickup. The bodies are dressed away for the forearm and beer gut like Fenders whereas the early Stingrays were slabs, adopting the dressed bodies after a couple of years of Sabre production. The bridges are top loading (Stingrays of the time were string-through-body) and different to even top-loading Stingray bridges. The electronics were also different having coil taps and lots of other little switches with options for 3 band eq. If a Stingray is like having a 5litre Chevy then a Sabre is the 8 litre model. Its going to be powerful. I crave a good Sabre. I think its rather odd that MM didn't call it a 'Saber'. If you can possibly find one, link it to a Sabre neck (hen's teeth etc) or a Stingray neck (the necks are the same apart from a transfer) and you should have a very fine bass for yourself. (Can you see the serial no. on the bridge? Are there any stamps on the neck pocket?)

In my experience this is quite a recent phenomenon. Driven more by reducing change-over times than people not having their own amps. 'In my day' each band always brought their own gear, that was that. Was never asked to loan, never asked to borrow, this over 20 odd years, but then it was mostly two bands at the most each night. Nowadays, my lad's band gigs, on average, fortnightly, almost always with other 2, 3, 4 other bands on the bill. He (drummer) is almost always asked to bring only snare, cymbals and pedal, the rest asked not to bring their backline as it's 'provided'. Turns out, almost always, by the last band on. These poor sods have the free hire problem. I must admit, there is normally no problem, only once have I seen a guitarist complain about his amp afterwards only to find a button not pressed or something and it was fine. Its to do with smooth/quick changeovers, not bands with no gear. If someone was not prepared to loan (and this has happened, its their prerogative) then the promoter asks the next band down for whatever's needed. There's no requirement to lend, refusal to loan doesn't mean no gig, just means either a longer changeover or using an unfamiliar amp. Normally fine, not seen a problem, although I can certainly see how there can be and I'm glad I wasn't asked when I played these sorts of venues. If I was asked now I would be on hot bricks and would have to instruct each user on what not to do (for example not to plug the guitar in last etc) and conjure some respect. If I'd had the experience of the OP, it would have to be 'no'.