4 Strings

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1357745566' post='1927698'] But not as different as you might imagine. There has been various examples (I think, some even posted on here) where someone has played the same line on different basses and we have to guess which bass is which, results are quite surprising. Our hands and fingers tell us one thing, while our ears are more easily fooled. Amazing how some people have such hard time accepting this fact. Fascinating [/quote] Please, do look at the Jaco clip at the timings suggested. The Jaco sound is a fretless Jazz. He plays his Jazz with a fretted neck and also some other bass, sounding totally different. All sounds like Jaco though (if you're familiar with Jaco,that is, I chose him because most bass players would be).

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1357738642' post='1927499'] what I play is totally different to how I sound, some people seem to be confusing the two. [/quote] No, the point is that they are linked. How you play would be more to the point.

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357734664' post='1927380'] Meaning that given any instruments Metallica would still sound Metallica. And the same goes for any band. [/quote] Quite. Regardless of how the neck of one of the guitars is sawn.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1357732641' post='1927332'] To a bass player maybe, but to a band the split is probably closer to 80% fingers and 20% the rest. To an audience the split is 80% singer, 20% the guitarist and "what bass player?" [/quote] Have a look at those bits in the Jaco clip, 90% player, 10% gear.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357725359' post='1927148'] The better the instrument, the easier it is to play. [/quote] Should that be the easier it is to play, the better the instrument?

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1357680660' post='1926774'] I think we're violently agreeing here. I dont know anything about cameras, but I guess there may be an aspect of getting the best results that is a combination of skill in setting up and skill in using the kit? [/quote] Great to violently agree! There is, and you are a right. I think, tbh, I was rebelling against the amount of posts, articles, opinions etc that are expressed regarding ash vs alder, how molecules in wood line up with resonances making older electric instruments sound better and people going to pains to have a bass in a less hardwearing finish all to achieve differences in tone I'm pretty sure will always escape me (and, frankly, I don't mind if they do). These are subtleties which would be massively out-weighed by simply improving bass playing and playing like a fab player such as Seth Govan, where you can hear the quality of his playing so much more obviously. If I want to sound as good as Seth, I need to play something like as well as he and put in something like the same amount of hard work, there's no shortcuts, for example, try the exercise at 12.45 in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZSa9niKKE4 More wholesome that reading opinions about bright sounding maple fingerboards. (Regarding sounding different on different gear, if you're interested, go to 14.00 and listen, that's Jaco, his Jazz is even fretted, for what is recognised as 'Jaco sound' needs a fretless, but this is still unmistakenly Jaco. (He's not going to sound much different on a cheap Jazz copy.) Now go to 44.45 or so when he's playing that horrible looking fretless. Often, untypically for the Jaco sound, on the front pup, sounds different but still sounds like Jaco. Its got more knobs and probably expensive wood and pups, does it sound better than his simple Jazz? Does it sound more, or less like Jaco? How about at 1:18:00 when he's go that fuzz thing going?)

[quote name='Mikey R' timestamp='1357647698' post='1925848'] Saying that choosing and maintaining your kit isnt important is total rubbish. [/quote] Is that why no-one has said that? We've established we don't say 'what a brilliant game from Ronaldo in his Nikes', it's just Ronaldo. Neither do we say 'Oh, that's Nigel Kennedy and his Stradivarius', its just Nigel Kennedy, nor do we say 'what a beautiful Constable with his sable brushes', its a Constable. Ansell Adams' stunning photos are from creative use of his camera and (perhaps moreso) his playing around in the dark room. However, who knows what make of camera/enlarger/chemicals etc he used? Who cares? Just look at the photos! I'm sure they were taken and developed with the best he could afford (after all, a photo needs to be sharp before anything else - unless intentionally out of focus etc - just like a bass needs to have correct intonation and stay in tune before anything else. But why do we rattle on so much about cameras when all that lives is the photos? A great photographer is going to take great photos on an i-phone. Give a beautiful Olympus to most people and you'll get snaps. Nice and sharp, but snaps. Shouldn't we be putting our efforts into playing our basses better rather than playing better basses?

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1357646237' post='1925801'] Come to my studio and plug your fingers into my bass, 25 pedal set-up, bi-amp rig, and see if you think you still have "your sound" [/quote] You're right, it would sound like me playing through your electronics. No doubt wouldn't sound like me playing through my own stuff but I do doubt I would sound like you. Unless that was my intention and I eventually got good at it.

The lack of dynamic range, the music being loud and blaring as opposed to being natural and dynamic.

Is it to do with our ever higher speed of life? Gone are the days in my life when I stretched back in the apex of the speaker set up and enjoyed an hour or so of listening to music. I probably listen to more music nowadays but its Spotify to accompany my work and MP3s in the car/ipod etc. More but less quality. With so much compression on modern 'recordings' there's less benefit in a lovely sound system compared to recordings such as the Dave Brubeck album mentioned earlier.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1357556474' post='1924274'] I think the aesthetics can be hijacked by comments, and therefore ruined for ever more, for example: Bongo = bog seat, Corvette top horn = nob. It's impossible to unsee this sort of thing once it's been pointed out. [/quote] Not unless you're particularly weak. The Bongo/bog seat type thing is all fun, I still think they look great. It's the unexplained prejudgements which are difficult to get rid of. I wouldn't like the Corvette because its a Warwick, which is a ridiculous view but one with which I'm emburdened.

I quite like it when new body shapes have been designed and try to break the mould. What I don't like is the excess of designs/constructions like this: [url="http://www.thelowend.net/gallery/images/benavente/newhotness/sca8-jo.jpg"]http://www.thelowend...ess/sca8-jo.jpg[/url] The words 'get a life' and boring music of similar excess spring to mind. Very judgemental and sweeping, I know, but what's the point of this thread otherwise? (can't upload pics for some reason)

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1357314364' post='1920865'] Cheers guys, will enjoy the bass as it is for now... [/quote] This.

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357497142' post='1923574'] Isnt that quite obvious? Maybe I have too high expectations on people. [/quote] So you agree, bass tone - mostly about the player isn't it?

I don't think I'm speculating too much about the comparative abilities of Ronaldo in sandals and you and/or I in football boots. Of course he doesn't play professionally in sandals, why would he? I was agreeing about the bad instruments thing, the Dunnery reference was about him being able to play the cheap guitar rather than its tone. If he can do his whizzy thing he's happy rather than relying on subtleties of tone. I think I'm being unromantic, I'm saying we will all sound better if we go and practice and learn more rather than having strong opinions about details of construction of our gear. Mornats' post reinforced the point very well.

No, sorry, still disgree. Ronaldo will still be way better than you or I put together even if he wore sandals and we wore the latest from Nike or whatever! Holdsworth will be way better than you or I if he used the guitar you have there, regardless of what we used. Just because he's world class (got to agree with you there, he is!) doesn't mean he can't play his solos a cheap guitar, in fact makes it more likely that he can. (Also, typing the Americanism 'period' after a sentence does not mean the sentence is correct.) Here's Francis Dunnery talking about his cheap instrument - go from 1:20 on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI5QCem2fx4 To him the instrument is ALL about the playability (and not the pups etc). Put him on a strat shaped thing from Argos and he'll still be amazing! Its him that sounds great, not is guitar. I sat in a living room gig by him, he just used an acoustic to wow us all.

[quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357488758' post='1923318'] A good instrument in bad hands is equally bad as a bad instrument in good hands. Everyone should have an instrument according to their level. Harder things will be even harder on bad instruments. I've never seen a genius shine on an unplayable instrument. [/quote] I disagree, a good instrument in bad hands sounds like an instrument in bad hands, a bad instrument in good hands sounds like, well that. These are not equal, Seth Govan will sound tons better than me no matter what instruments we are playing, he just plays better than I do and knows ship loads more than me. There is no way these scenarios are equal. I have seen a genius shine on a cheap guitar, Francis Dunnery was famous for his wizardry on a Squier in early It Bites. It wasn't unplayable, if it was it wouldn't really be a valid example, bit like putting van-Persie in clogs. Actually, maybe footballers are a good example, you would never say Ronaldo's skill is all about his boots.

So, if its all in the fingers and the player ability being more important than the gear why do we have 16,000 topics (with quarter of a million replies) in the Bass Guitar and Amps sections but 1600 topics in the Theory section? If you consider nearly 2,000 in the 'Gear Porn' but 129 in the Groove Library you'd be forgiven for thinking being a bass player was more about having than playing.

[quote name='yann' timestamp='1357479642' post='1923114'] I'll have to disagree with this,or make it more clear: A good player can make a bad instrument sound "somehow good",but will never sound like he would with a good one! A bad player will make the best instrument sound like the cheapest.... Bad (or too old) strings make the best inst sound like a bad one too! But "tone" comes even with an open string,and good or bad fingers will give the same toneon an open string: The one the inst has itself!! [/quote] So Jamerson's Funk Machine sounds like a bad one? A bad player won't make a good instrument sound like a cheap one, just will sound like its being played by a bad player.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1357419300' post='1922513'] Don't forget that if you go to a gig (or listen to a recording) there's thousands of pounds worth of digital trickery and a sound engineer between you and the real musicians. I'm not sure where you draw the line. [/quote] Depends on the gig! Almost every gig I go to has a few people between me and the real musicians. Regardless of the recording techniques and equipment etc can still tell the bass player easier than the bass.

Went to see The Fellowship (with Guthrie Govan and co.) a week or so back. Not seen them in a little while, and was reminded what a fabulous Jazz Bass tone Seth has. Thing is, I know if I bought his set up it would sound like me. Regardless of his SWR rig, the valve preamp, his fine Custom Shop Jazz etc his tone comes from his playing. Yes, it sounds like him playing his Jazz bass, as opposed to his Warwick, but, frankly, that would be difficult to tell without looking. Another pub band bass player I used to see regularly swaps between a Stingray and Warwick, in his hands its pretty difficult to tell which us which without looking. JJ sounds like JJ on a Precision, Entwistle like Entwistle, Macca like.... etc. I'm not arguing about the basic sounds of basses (I can generally tell a Jazz from a P from a 'Ray from a Rick) but the tone is largely from the player. I'm also careful in my choice of gear and settings to get the tone I'm after for various projects, but in the end it sounds like me on the bass. Jaco on a Jaydee or a Jazz sounds like Jaco. I can recognise JJ more easily than I can recognise a Precision. I can recognise Macca more easily than I can tell you if its his Hofner or Rick. Seth sounds so good because he is streets ahead of me as a bass player. Surely a week spent practicing and playing is going to improve my tone way more than choices of wood/valve/bridge etc. Apart from the tone that comes from the relative clumisness or otherwise of my finger dexterity if I'm able to provide a passage in Dorian mode to lift the spirit of a song, (should my theory rise to this level!) or provide a Latin fill then surely I will be making much more of a contribution and influence to the sound than if I have a single cut body (or even a 5th or 6th string). Shouldn't we all be getting on with some serious study and practice rather than spending our time and money concerning ourselves so deeply with minutiae of guitar/amp/speaker construction?

Given mass (and batch) production makes it more likely to occur doesn't it? Whether its from the same piece of wood or not is another thing. If Fender serial numbers go up by, say, 100,000 a year, this is over 300 guitars a day, or one every minute and a half for an 8 hour day. Still amazing to find one with the same day though!

'Scooped' is not a word I'd use to describe my Streamliner. Maybe using it through the BF cabs makes the difference.

Use mine pretty much flat with a Compact or a Midget, perhaps a little bass off to reduce boominess, for mid I use it at 200Hz and boost it a little to add a little punch.

I'm trying to think how your wrist touches anything when playing.