4 Strings

Don't know if this is of interest, here's the guts of my lad's e-bay Selmer TnB. Not great condition, worked but made a shocking noise if you put too much bass through it. Had a few mods done, had the common screen resistor changed for individual ones, had a modern kettle lead put on and a good service. It is now earth shockingly loud, no problems and brings in a satisfyingly warm grind to the tone when it's allowed to stretch its legs (so the lad says anyway!) It's now a prized possession. Point to point looks, to be honest, a bit of a mess, but seems reliable enough. [URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/2013-11-19135159_zpsf8da8f9b.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/2013-11-19135159_zpsf8da8f9b.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/2013-11-19135032_zps6dabc12d.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/2013-11-19135032_zps6dabc12d.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/2013-11-19135053_zpse4b91349.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/2013-11-19135053_zpse4b91349.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/4Strings1/media/2013-11-19135125_zpsdb646dcb.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o760/4Strings1/2013-11-19135125_zpsdb646dcb.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

For what it's worth, I'm with everyone here, save some more for what you want, even if it's s/h (they're over £500 new, right?), one will crop up. They seem a lot cheaper if you're prepared to import yourself. I would doubt you'd match your Ampeg sound with just a bank of eq. Bit like trying to match the complexities of taste in Whisky with a bank of artificial flavouring. Might get close to tasting like Whiskey but you're looking for Laphroaig. Why not ask the rehearsal studio of they're willing to sell?

Plenty of ideas for Barefaced, they were thinking of pa speakers, I understand, I think a keyboard combo would be good. Our keyboard player used my Midget T + Streamliner for a gig last night, it sounded fantastic, much, much better than his powered keyboard wedge.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1405334907' post='2500833'] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Une palourde, peut-être..? [/font] [/quote] [size=4]La Palourde Ivre?[/size]

Talking of fanbois, I hope my Streamliner lasts for ever! Thanks for the review, I've wondered more than once 'what if...'. I've currently got this in mind: http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/products/bass-guitar-amplifiers.aspx (fanbois, should that be pronounced 'fanbwah' and is french for a culinary delight?)

If you've got a couple of hours! (I'm privileged to be able to have it on while I'm working) http://www.mixcloud.com/sohoradio/free-seed-on-soho-ep-10/

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1404899691' post='2496742'] Berry Gordy only wanted sales and it's a wonderful accident of circumstance that inspite of this his company was putting out a quality of production, writing and playing that has hardly been matched since. On the other hand the Funk Brothers had a very poor view of the quality of some of the stuff they were required to record. [/quote] Totally agree with your post, except this bit, Berry was right on top of quality, part of their weekly meetings. The Stax guys thought of Motown as being the polished end of the scale. And it was. Stax musicians were largely blues based, Motown jazz based. I love both equally.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404821129' post='2495976'] Great isn't it. If you haven't already it's worth checking out session guitarist Dennis Coffey's website. He goes back to the Ric-Tic days and has some great stories of those days at Motown and being a Detroit session musician. [url="http://denniscoffeysite.com/"]http://denniscoffeysite.com/[/url] [/quote] Great, thanks, on it now!

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1404809595' post='2495820'] Bob Babbitt on what happened regarding recording credits and payments (who played what). "War" is an interesting little mess.....lol.... [url="http://bobbabbitt.com/Bob_Babbitts_Site/Whos_Playing_Bass.html"]http://bobbabbitt.co...aying_Bass.html[/url] [/quote] Really interesting, thanks. Clears up who played on 'War' at least! Now he's mentioned it, Bob's playing is a little cleaner than Jamerson's and was more disciplined (in that he repeats accurately, whereas Jamerson seems to be able to play something slightly different every repeat!) exemplified here. I would take whatever Bob said.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404809423' post='2495818'] I don't think people do forget that Motown was a factory as every book i've read or documentary i've seen mentions the production line methods of Motown as a major part of it's success. I agree that there was a lot of cash-ins and a lot of filler especially on LPs and also Motown artists recorded numerous versions of the same song time and time again just to fill space on albums. Here's two Detroit production lines in full flow........... [media]http://youtu.be/17yfqxoSTFM[/media] [/quote] Just fab! Bet you wouldn't be able to do a vid like that nowadays.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404806758' post='2495783'] In the book Standing In The Shadows Of Motown - The Life & Times Of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson by Dr Licks 'I'll Be There' is listed. You've obviously spent a lot of time on these basslines but wondered if you've played 'Darling Dear' by the Jackson 5. It's in Dr Licks book and is my favourite Motown bassline of all time. [media]http://youtu.be/076hAabSqN0[/media] This was on the 3rd Jackson 5 LP released in 1970. [/quote] Thanks for this, I haven't, def Jamerson, let loose a little! I'll be There may have been recorded after they left Detroit (I don't know) hence sounding rather different. I could be swayed either way on that one, happy to accept Dr Licks as knowing more than me!

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1404809037' post='2495814'] In your opinion - still formulaic and trite throwaway pop music as far as I'm concerned - and that goes for ABBA too. [/quote] Formulaic, throw-away, both. Neither trite, though. (Not that keen on ABBA, but still recognise them to be great songs and very well performed).

Isolated version of Can't Help Myself Note the bass drum pattern varies. Not the most interesting song to play live(!) but note the rhythm is 'and one' with the pronounced dynamic on the 'one'. (Couldn't attach the track, but here's Suchow's copy on You tube which, rather oddly, starts with a picture of James Jamerson Jnr) [media]http://youtu.be/5ZUFGe06Ylw[/media]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1404740816' post='2495245'] Here's the full list... 20. Jimmy Mack – Martha & The Vandellas – 1967 [color=#ff0000][i]Jamerson upright[/i][/color] 19. Uptight (Everything’s Alright) – Stevie Wonder – 1966 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson. [/i][/color][color=#ff0000][i]Weird timing[/i][/color] 18. Papa Was A Rollin’ Stone - The Temptations – 1972 [color=#ff0000][i]Not Jamerson, plectrum anyway.[/i][/color] 17. What’s Going On – Marvin Gaye -1971 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 16. My Cherie Amour – Stevie Wonder -1969 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson (just listen to it, expert playing!)[/i][/color] 15. I Can’t Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch) – The Four Tops – 1965 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 14. My Guy – Mary Wells – 1964 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson upright[/i][/color] 13. The Tracks Of My Tears – Smokey Robinson & The Miracles – 1969 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson - I believe, but not typical sound[/i][/color] 12. Reach Out I’ll Be There – The Four Tops – 1966 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 11. I Want You Back – The Jackson 5 – 1970 [color=#ff0000][i]Wilton Felder - just as amazing![/i][/color] 10. Stop! In The Name Of Love – The Supremes – 1965 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 9. War – Edwin Starr – 1970 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson?[/i][/color] 8. Baby Love – The Supremes – 1964 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 7. I’ll Be There – The Jackson 5 – 1970 [i][color=#ff0000]Doesn't sound like Jamerson to me[/color][/i] 6. The Tears Of A Clown - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles – 1970 [color=#ff0000][i]Bob Babbit (UK version)[/i][/color] 5. My Girl – The Temptations – 1964 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 4. Dancing In The Street - Martha & The Vandellas – 1964 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson (mainly by assumption)[/i][/color] 3. Ain’t No Mountain High Enough – Diana Ross – 1970 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] 2. What Becomes Of The Brokenhearted – Jimmy Ruffin – 1966 [i][color=#ff0000]Jamerson (sound is a little different but would put money on it, the playing, grace notes etc very Jamerson)[/color][/i] 1. I Heard It Through The Grapevine – Marvin Gaye – 1969 [color=#FF0000][i]Jamerson[/i][/color] I suspect a fair chunk of these feature James Jamerson - can the Motown bass boffs here provide a definitive list of those that definitely do (or don't?) [/quote] I'm not a Motown boff, but I have spent a long time on these basslines and, I think, know a Jamerson when I hear it, so above are my suggestions of which are his. Of these I would grant Carol Kaye could have played on Papa Was A Rolling Stone, but none of the others. Would welcome any other suggestions.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1404744488' post='2495305'] I've read a lot on 'who played on what?' but i don't think there is a definitive answer. If there is i haven't found it yet. Of the records listed Bob Babbitt always said he played on War and Tears Of A Clown while Carol Kaye is thought to have played I Can't Help Myself. Wilton Felder was also around at the time of the later recordings. I think it's fair to say that the majority were played by James Jamerson but who knows? [/quote] Bob Babbit played on the UK version of Tears of a Clown, Michael Henderson on the US version. You can get both on Spotify, you'll recognise the UK version. Henderson's sounds a bit messy to me in comparison. I asked the great man himself while he was alive and manning his website about the two versions and he was kind enough to reply. I have an isolated version of Can't Help Myself, while it's a written type bass line with virtually no space for timing/fills etc (Carol Kaye territory) it is definitely Jamerson. The sound, the strange dynamics, it's all Jamerson and sounds nothing like Kaye's playing - although that's no proof. Edit> Just found the message from Bob, he notes Tony Newton as playing on the other track, not Michael Henderson, my mistake.

[quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1374961172' post='2155354'] The salesman said they'd bought it from the bass playing brother of a fairly well known British jazz guitarist, but much to my embarrassment I've forgotten who it was. [/quote] Was it Seth Govan (bass playing brother of Guthrie Govan)?

Not sure Milty was just saying 'less is more', but that played well sounds great. The likes of Duck Dunn are not going to teach you many new licks but really love to hear him play, can usually tell it's him even if anonymous. Not found anything from Duck that I can't physically play, but I never sound as good as him.

Jamerson gets his punch and effective 'loudness' from string dampening. No dampening lets the notes ring, everyone tells you to turn down. Dampen with your palm (or sponge if you're Jamerson) and you can give an enormous punch but it's not perceived as loud. Great for definition. I too am a big fan of his, studied him for a Motown tribute band, changed my playing for life.

[quote name='kurosawa' timestamp='1404297216' post='2491206'] Had to sell everything to feed the kids during this divorce. Just picked up a used $80 Peavey Milestone II, 8 lb, 2.8 oz (alder body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard) . It's better than most, but still not as loud as I'd like. Loudness seems to indicate wide dynamic range, so I think loudness tops my list of desiderata. [/quote] If you mean the unplugged loudness, I would say the opposite. It's the body resonating to the strings you can hear. The resonance absorbs the string vibration, i.e. one big dead spot. The perfect bass may be a granite cliff, no sympathetic vibration of the body, very quiet acoustic sound, long sustain, no dead spots.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1404222459' post='2490449'] Works for Jens Ritter: [/quote] hmm, certainly makes a point!

Use plywood, much stiffer and lighter, what could be better?

Thing is Lozz, it doesn't even need to do what the combination does, I'm just using the Midget on it's own for almost all gigs (I've used the Compact on it's own too - the only time I've used both was for the hell of it not because I needed them). Would like to know if there's been anyone has experience of the Midget and Super Midget.

Get a handle (and the all important instructions) from Alex for £8. Thanks Rev, thinking rather too hard about swapping my Midget (and maybe Compact as well) for a Super Midget.

Having rested smuggly with gas completely released and in total satisfaction in my BF Midget T and Compact, my peaceful world has been disturbed by the BF Gen 3 cabs. I rarely use the Compact, the Midget being up to virtually anything I can throw it at. If the new Super Midget goes deeper and louder, I could get away with just that for absolutely everything I'm likely do in the foreseeable. Any experiences? Is it a big upgrade? Is it noticeable? Is it an upgrade at all?

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1403471019' post='2483055'] I play a lot of big hotel function rooms without PA support - our PA is guff - so I need to fill a lot of space! I do fine but it'd be good to have the headroom. The reason I'm thinking of a double midget (gen 2) stack is for the footprint on stage. [/quote] In which case the Compact is the same footprint as the Midget on its side (and only a little bigger than it standing up) and would be a great stack and give you a few options to boot. Midget+Midget great too (only one needs to have the 'T') but, for me, the Compact gives some more options.