Franticsmurf

Last night's rehearsal was meant to be the first sight of our 'Country' set list for a dedicated Country & Western gig to raise funds for the hall we rehearse in. As usual, the band leader kept the list secret until about an hour before the rehearsal (annoying but not insurmountable) and we turned up only to find that he and the sax player had been called out on an RNLI shout. They are both members of the volunteer crew for the local inshore rescue boat and for gigs they are listed as 'unavailable'. For rehearsals, which take place in the hall about 300m from the lifeboat station, they are on call and it's pot luck whether they go out or whether they are covered by other volunteers on a first come first sent basis. But the show must go on, as they say, so we made a start with me singing 'John Henry' and 'Achy Breaky Heart', the trombonist singing '9 to 5' and one of the Uke players doing a sterling version of 'Ghost Riders in the Sky'. We also tried 'Man I Feel Like a Woman', not on the list but one we all through should be. They worked surprisingly well. We kept getting text message updates about the ETA of the BL and sax player but it became clear that the rescue was taking longe than expected (sea conditions and lack of light) so we called it a day around an hour early. I used a recently acquired Squire PJ through my recently rediscovered Laney Digbeth pre amp into the desk. The two idiots who got themselves cut off on a tidal island, despite signs showing the tide times and repeated warnings from the local Coastwatch volunteers as they set off, were rescued safely thanks to the actions of two lifeboats crews (6 volunteers in total).

To a certain extent it depends on how friendly you are with the singer. 'Best mates' friendly and you could probably, with some tact, tell the truth to him/her over a coffee or a pint. 'Acquaintance' friendly and it would be much harder and probably better to stick to some generalisms (needs some work, not tight etc) or just walk away. It also depends on how your credibility is with your friend and the band. I'm not questioning your credibility but if they see you as an experienced player and are willing to listen you could say more than if they just see you as 'the singer's friend'. I was in a band once that was a bit like the one you described. From within at rehearsals it was hard to spot the problems but once we started to record the sessions, it became painfully obvious that the singer couldn't sing and the the two guitarists weren't working together and by backing vocals were dire. Maybe suggesting they record rehearsals or gigs might allow them to spot the problems themselves? I was briefly in another band where, despite basic errors in tempo and timing, every song ended with one of the band saying a variation of 'that was special'. It made me smile as my interpretation of 'special' was different to his. But the serious point is that it can be hard to be objective, particularly if you are within the music, inexperienced r lacking in confidence and so concentrating hard on your own bit. The trick, as has been said above, is to ensure any comments you make are not taken personally. Easier said than done and a lesson I learnt over time.

I'll keep quiet if you will. 😂

When I went DI it took a few sessions to get used to not having the sound behind me, and not having instant access to change that sound. It took a while longer to tune the pre-amp I was using to work through the PA speakers. At about the same time I went to a rudimentary IEM system using a Behringer P1 wired to the desk and £10 Sony earbuds (I wanted to get a feel before investing in wireless). Although it was the cheap end of the market, I could see the potential and I liked the control over the volume in my ears - if nothing else the earbuds gave me some protection from the onstage volume. The big difference came when I was singing BVs - even with the cheap set up I could hear my voice much clearer than when using floor monitors and it gave me more confidence to harmonise. With IEM it took a while to get used to the isolation, and since our singer often talks to the band off mic between songs, I usually have one earpiece more loosely fitted so I can hear him.

I've had the (mis)fortune to experience a wide spectrum of stage patter over my gigging career. I started off in an originals band where the aim was to play a set through with little or no interaction with the audience - we played a Hawkwind influenced 'show' with linking music of sound effects between the actual songs so there was little scope for it. As the audience were there to see us, it didn't matter too much and worked in the context of what we were doing. That was a good thing because we were all so new to it all that we wouldn't really have been able to handle a difficult audience. Later I was very fortunate to work with a guy in a covers band who was a very good front man. He was able to gauge an audience and interact with them very well. His patter would be different according to the circumstances, ranging from next to nothing if the crowd were dancing (we once played an hour of the set back to back with no gaps as the punters were filling the dance floor) to gentle jokes at the band's expense if he needed to inject some humour. He had spontaneity and wit and the wisdom to know how and when to use it. There were never any controversial topics, inappropriate language or picking on audience members. I think these two examples show the difference between the stage patter required for an audience who is there for the band or music and one that is there anyway and for whom the band is incidental. I played in a trio where the frontwoman was a good singer but had no self confidence away from singing. Between songs was an awkward silence. Standing on the stage while we lined up the next song (we were using backing tracks) or tuned up was excruciating and made me realise that regardless of the circumstances, it may be necessary to engage with the audience if there's an unexpected delay. In this case I was forced into it with mixed results; I'm not very good with spontaneous witty banter. I played in a duo with a front man who decided he was a comedian and significant amounts of gig time were given over to his comedy script. There was occasional polite laughter but for people who had come to see and dance to music, it was totally inappropriate and went on far too long between songs. I didn't stick with that duo for long. For me and in my experience stage patter is important and the ability to deploy it appropriately and skillfully is essential. Knowing when to shut up is equally important. People pay to see a band primarily for the music and dancing and while for me it should be a performance, that doesn't mean scripted jokes or long song introductions. Personally, I make a few notes; for example at the recent festival gig where I played in a support band before my main band, I made sure that as the front man I could thank the previous act, introduce the act on after us and talk about the charities that were being supported by the event. I thanked the volunteers helping and our sound man. I had to say some words between songs as we had instrument swaps and I made a point of getting the audience to acknowledge a particularly good performance by our sax player. Most of that was prompted by words or phrases scribbled on my set list and it was spread across the 45 minutes of our set.

In my first band, late 80s, I played guitar. We had a bassist and he was very good but he was an odd character. It's very difficult to describe but he was unpredictable in behaviour. Never aggressive or loud but his actions were often annoying. An example was during a studio session (we had a week in the local college studio as the keyboard player was a student there). We were recording an albums worth of material. He turned up on day one, recorded his bass parts and left while we stayed to record the rest of the songs. No interest, enthusiasm or even a check in to see if we needed him again. When we played him the final mix he wasn't happy with it and wanted to re-record all his bass parts. He would make a lot of suggestions on arrangements and what other band members should play during rehearsals - try this chord, use this sound etc. While no single comment or action was the trigger and some of his suggestions were good, the constant need to change things and inability to move on with arrangements started to become very frustrating for all of us. At our first ever gig we had brought his gear to the venue from the rehearsal room as he didn't drive, and he was due to meet us there. At the sound check he was nowhere to be found (this was before mobile phones) and as kick off neared, the guy doing our sound offered to stand in for him. With about 10 minutes to go our bassist turned up completely oblivious to the stress around him and asked when we were sound checking. Needless to say, he didn't get one and this made him quite upset. It turned out he'd called in to the shop where he worked on the way to the gig and had ended up doing an hour's (unpaid) work there. We played the gig and for a first time it wasn't bad - but there was one grumpy bassist who thought it was the worst as he couldn't hear himself etc. Not long after we were offered a short opening slot at a local beach festival - about 20 minutes - and we were discussing how to cut the set down to fit. We decided to trim our songs by taking out the long intros (we were very much influenced by early Hawkwind) and trying to get the best songs in. But as one of the intros had been written by the bassist, he insisted that it remain despite our explanations. There followed an argument that built like a well crafted song into a climax that involved a bar stool being thrown across the tiny rehearsal room by the keyboard player at the bassist. How it missed the kit I don't know, but the bassist being in the way probably helped. It was only the difficulty of getting out of the synth den he had made for himself that prevented the keyboard player from physically attacking the bassist, who made a quick exit. The drummer and I calmed the keyboardist down and the rehearsal came to an end. As he didn't drive, I gave the bassist a lift home but it was an awkward and silent drive and the following day we let him know that his services were no longer required. The band limped on with several temporary bassists (I hadn't yet seen the light or heard the call) but never really recovered. Several years later I bumped into the same bassist and for some reason (probably desperation) recruited him into a covers band (in which I played rhythm guitar) for a few gigs as we were booked but without a bassist. At the last of these we were offered extra money to play an extra set and, true to form, the bassist refused (I'm still not sure why). I stepped in and played the bass for the extra set while he sat in the changing room for 45 minutes. He didn't get any of the extra fee and, once again, I was driving him home as he still didn't drive. It was a long journey made in complete silence.

At first I was depping for a band I used to play in - I knew the guys, even the bass player that replaced me. That was easy as the set hadn't changed and effectively I was just playing in 'my' band. But recently, they've started coming from an ex bandmate and I've had four in quick succession as a result of two recommendations from him. I don't go looking for them as up until recently I haven't felt competent enough to do them.

We played at a 40th birthday party last night, held in the hall in which we rehearse, so very much a home fixture. The audience was a mix ranging in age from 5 to 65. Food and drink provided, which is always good. We had been asked to provide a 'rocky' set and I decided to give my recently acquired 5 string Ibanez GSH205 an outing. I've rehearsed with it a few times and it was my back up at the Hulla festival back in June, but this was the first time it took centre stage. I don't play 5 strings regularly enough to be able to swap between 4 and 5 easily but I'd been practicing with it and was reasonably comfortable in using it. It was an 8pm kick off and we had a great sound thanks to our regular sound engineer and, of course, it being a familiar venue. I had a few senior/jazz moments, mainly as a result of the extra string throwing me and I felt the band performance as a whole wasn't as good as it has been recently. There seemed to be a lack of energy in some of the faster songs, with our encore of Dakota being particularly bland. But we went down well with the audience, with our younger fans particularly enjoying Taylor Swift's Love Story - they all gathered around our singer and stared adoringly at him as he sang it. 😀 My kit was the aforementioned Ibanez GSH205 into the pedal board - a Sine HPF, MS60b (for noise gate and tuner only), NUX Sculpture compressor, EHX Bass Clone, NUX Voodoo Vibe and into the desk via my Ampeg SCRDI. This board hasn't changed for a couple of months now (unusual for me) and I find it works equally well into an amp and speakers (last week) or DI (this week). I was monitoring from the desk via a Behringer P16m and wireless IEMs. This gives me my own mix and some protection from excessive noise levels. Footwear was the same as last week - unbranded black boots. Kit: Love Story:

Done. Good luck with your thesis.

My experience of IEM is positive and I use it all the time for my main band. However, it took me a while to get it 'tuned' to my liking and also it took a while to get used to the isolation (compared to wedge monitors) when pretty much all you can hear is what's in your ears. Some bands mates can't/won't get used to it and have gone back to wedges. So my advice would be to start out with something cheap (Behringer P1 or P2) and a relatively simple wired approach, using decent but sound blocking MP3 player ear buds (I have a pair of £10 Sony ones which are now my back-ups) to get a feel for the whole experience. If it's to your liking, there are plenty of wireless options and earpieces and a dedicated thread on BC with all the info and opinion you'll ever need. And your cheap wired system will act as a back up or even a home silent practice outfit. I'm currently using a G4M WPM 200 transmitter/receiver kit plus Linsoul KZ ZS10 earbuds. For the main band, as we use a Behringer X32 desk, I have a Behringer P16m personal mixer which links to that desk (and the X18, I believe) via 'Ultranet' (their proprietary system) which allows me to create my own personal monitor mix from 16 channels on the desk. For dep gigs, I can use my Behringer P1 to take a feed from the DI so that at the very least I can hear my own bass playing. As it has two inputs, I could also take a feed from an aux out or headphone out of the main mixing desk for an overall monitor sound. The added bonus of good IEM is that it manages the volume and can protect your ears from silly on stage sound levels.

As mentioned in my 1 Sept post above, I had problems with my Lekato WS90 wireless system for the bass at a rehearsal. As a result, I went and replaced the unit with a JOYO JW02S in a hurry as I had a gig the following week. It worked fine last Wednesday and last Saturday for the gig. At last night's rehearsal there was nothing from the JOYO kit - no sound at all. I checked everything in the chain and ended up using a lead, which worked fine. When I got home, I tried the JOYO and it worked, with no problems. Curious and suspecting an issue in the rehearsal venue, I tried the Lekato kit - it worked fine too. More frustrating than a worry. My current theory is that the WiFi kit in the rehearsal venue is interfering with the wireless systems as I've eliminated the bass (I used two different ones) and the channel pairing (I went through them all and the pairing indicator was confirming a link). I have a gig next week at the rehearsal venue (a village hall) and I'll take both systems to try again. I always have a spare lead just in case. The rehearsal itself was ok - we went through the first half of next Saturday's set as they are the newer songs and we needed to polish them off a bit. My fingertips were sore after an bust week of rehearsing new songs for last Saturdays gig (different band) and playing the gig itself so I used a pick for all the songs. I'm used to playing with a pick and it works for the rockier/punkier stuff anyway but it's definitely not for the soul/funk stuff we do. Still, a useful exercise to rty out new sounds and experiment. Sometimes it's easier to stick to what you've always done, but for me a rehearsal is a place to try out different things even if I don't end up using them.

Being relatively new to this depping lark, one thing I have noticed is that I have spent more time learning the actual bass part to the songs, rather than working out my own versions which I do with my main band. I have always been someone who thinks that a covers band (but not a tribute act) should be bringing something new to the set in terms of arrangements so that there is an identity to the band regardless of the actual songs played. To me this includes tempo, instruments, solos, fills etc and I try to personalise the bass lines within the context of the song. I think that in some ways this has made me a little lazy in terms of learning parts as I can always use my philosophy to fudge over difficult bits. But over the last couple of months I've done a lot more depping and I've made a point of learning the original parts, as regardless of the way the band plays the song, the original version provides a good starting point and usually a reference should things go wrong. In preparing for dep gigs, I think I've become a better bass player and certainly my self confidence in being able to play the proper parts has increased. That in turn has given me the confidence to take on the depping roles.

Were you watching us last night. 🙂

Personally I use a pre-amp pedal as part of my DI chain. My current choice is an Ampeg SCRDI but, of course, it's down to taste. I like to have the option of a compressor and tuner and recently I've been using a noise gate. All of these come from a Zoom MS60b and the reality is that I could use it to give me an acceptable rehearsal pre-amp patch too. The beauty of that pedal is that if you or some one else suggests using chorus/octave/other on a song, you can easily call up something to try it out on the fly. I originally bought my MS60b so I could do just that with the intention of using a dedicated pedal for the final board. However, through all the iterations of my board, the MS60b has rarely been off it.

For the most part that has been my experience too. Rowdiness may have been the wrong word and I didn't mean to imply a negative, just a lively audience which may have distracted me from my crib sheet 😀 But there was one gig (as a duo a few years ago) in a local rugby club where it was a nightmare - no separation between us and the dance floor, we both got covered in beer from the constant and energetic dancing with beer glasses in hand, broken glass everywhere, people grabbing microphones (I'd managed to switch mine off at that point) and while there was no actual violence, it wasn't a pleasant atmosphere.

I played a gig as a dep bassist in my mate's band last yesterday. I had 2 weeks to learn 32 songs most of which I hadn't played in any form before and a third of which I'd never heard before. It was at a rugby club where a local derby match was being played so the prospect of post game rowdiness was high. And it was in a smallish marquee on a day when winds and thundery showers were forecast. We set up in the morning, pre- game, during several heavy downpours and the water was running into the marquee under the sides and across the band area. There was only staging enough for the drums so when I got there everything else had been placed on beer crates, duck boards and in the case of the keyboard player, an old door. I was stood on the upstream side of the band area and only had a couple of old rubber car mats for my pedalboard. Fortunately the stage had enough room for the Trace Elliot cabs, which were only for monitoring anyway as I was going through the main PA. In the gap between set up and gig I was able to go home and make a mini riser for the pedal board and a folding duckboard for me which I deployed when I got back for the soundcheck. The anticipated rowdiness wasn't there and we kicked off at about 5.40pm, playing all the way through to 7.30pm when the crowd started making their way home after an all day session. I managed to get through all the songs with few 'creative lapses' - the drummer reminded me when to come in on one song and there were a few fumbles on transitions between choruses and middle 8s. We had a full tent of dancers for pretty much the whole gig and best of all, no river flowing across the band area. Kit was my Hohner Jack into a Sine HPF, MS60b (for noise gate and tuner only), NUX Sculpture compressor, EHX Bass Clone, NUX Voodoo Vibe and into the desk via my Ampeg SCRDI, with a signal to my Peavey Minimax 600 nto apair of TE 1X10 cabs, one angled for the drummer the other angled across to me. The original plan was to take a split from the SCRDI into my Behringer P1 monitor and via radio to IEM. But one of the cables in that chain was playing up and all I got was crackles and blips so I gave up on IEM, retaining the earphones as ear protection. As it happens, the monitors were good and I could hear myself nicely. After rejecting the idea of wearing wellington boots as being a little out of character with the rest of the band, footwear for the evening were a pair of black shoes, brand unknown. Morning set up. My pace is stage left. Duckboards

I have a dep gig on Saturday which has seen me spending the last two weeks learning a 32 song set list pretty much from scratch. I've played 8 of the songs before in bands, albeit in different keys and with different arrangements. Of the rest, there were 9 I heard for the first time when going through the list and the other 15 I am familiar with to a greater or lesser extent, having heard them on the radio over the years but never played. I was only given the keys; no charts or equivalent. I almost turned the gig down as it meant so much work and at a time when my main band was coming back to life after our summer break. But it was a favour for a mate and he's seen me right in the past with dep gigs and stepping in for me when asked. Last night was the first (and only) rehearsal. I was nervous as the band has a high standard. It's one thing to play along to the recordings but a completely different thing to play the songs in a band setting. I'm happy to say that it went really well and all those little bits I was unsure of seemed to go well. All the parts I'd worked out fitted and true to their word, the arrangements were almost identical to the originals. Where there were differences, I was able to read the BL's cues and come in/stop/slow down as required. Highlights for me were Oliver's Army, Pump It Up and Born to Run which, once I'd got the bass parts nailed, were great fun to play. There were a couple of songs in the set which, if I never play them again it will be too soon, but that's personal preference and I understand they go down well with the target audience. As an aside, we rehearsed in a local village hall. Just over 30 years ago, I rehearsed in the same hall with a band doing Britpop covers. I was the rhythm guitarist but as we worked up the band it became clear that I would be better suited to bass (the 'bassist' was a better guitarist than me - as were most people 🙂) and I moved over to bass duties. It was the first time I'd been a bassist rather than a person who occasionally played bass. Good memories. This was the debut of my Hohner 'The Jack' through the Peavey Minimax and TE 1x10 pair in a band scenario and it sounded great. I was complimented on the tone several times and there was plenty of volume left in the amp. It's a big gig so I'll be DI'd into the PA on the day, but I'll have the stack behind me for monitoring and a little extra 'oomph' as the band is generally very loud. I'm also working on a personal IEM mix so I can guarantee to hear my bass, and manage the on stage volumes of the others. If nothing else, the earbuds will act as ear plugs. Last night's kit. The pedal board has an HPF set to about 50hz, MS60b providing noisegate and tuning, NUX compressor, EHX Bass Clone, NUX Voodoo Vibe (currently my favourite modulation effect) going in to the Ampeg SCRDI.

In my current band, I'm one of the more experienced members and so I tend to have a decent say in terms of arrangements. The bass parts are always left to me and I'm pretty knowledgeable about guitars and keys sounds and arrangements so I will sometimes offer up an opinion on those. I work closely with our sound engineer, mostly with setting up and problem solving 'on the night' as I tend to be able to remain calm under pressure (so he told me at last night's rehearsal, which was a nice compliment). The BL tends to pick the songs and that's fine as he knows the his vocal range and the abilities of the less experienced band members. He also does research on the gigs as we tend to do bigger functions through contacts and word of mouth, so we can tailor the set to suit the client. We all have a yes/no veto and I have brought a few new songs to the list. As an occasional dep I would not offer suggestions on any aspect of the band unsolicited, and even when asked I tend to stay within the bass player sphere. I have been asked for song preferences within a suggested set list but even then I will try and gauge the vibe before answering. In each of those circumstances I feel the level of input, control and influence are what I would expect and what I am comfortable with. I left a previous band largely because I had limited input, limited control and no influence and it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

Decent set list but also lots of information to work with.

Well done @Blondy. When's the next gig? 🙂

I ended up in that situation for a band I played in regularly. 😂 The BL changed arrangements on a whim, added new stuff, mashed songs together and all with little or no prior discussion. Often it would be during the gig, but never with a rehearsal. I didn't like it and as the rest of the band didn't either, we left him. But I have to say that with hindsight it gave me self confidence playing and enabled me to deal with the the surprises that sometimes arise in dep gigs.

It's good to hear from the 'other side of the fence' and there's much to learn from that point of view. I have only played in bands a few times where we used deps for temporary replacements. My overall experience was poor; it was usually drummers we used and with one exception they clearly had not done any specific preparation for our gig and they never took up our offer of a practice run through. Technically they were (mostly) competent but it was all very generic drumming and no specific fills. And the BL would always have to count them in for the tempo. The one exception was a drummer who filled in as a last minute dep when our regular drummer had a domestic emergency. It was a tradition rock n roll gig and he was very professional despite only having about 45 minutes notice. He knew it was a rock n roll gig and he came dressed in a decent jacket and black trousers, he knew the basics and more importantly, the style of drumming appropriate to the gig. He kept it simple where necessary, there was no showboating and had it not been fr the acknowledgement we gave him at the end of the gig, no one would have known he wasn't a regular band member.

I've just started 'proper' depping (as opposed to helping out with bands I used to be in). I've done several gigs for one band and I have a gig next Saturday with a new lot. Both bands supplied setlists via Spotify. I had three questions - Are they all in the original keys, are there any surprises with arrangements and what's the dress code? For both bands the answers were yes, no and we don't have one. The reality for the first band was: Original keys? Yes, apart from the two that weren't which I found about about on the night - one of which I had to transpose on the fly, the other I had a few minutes to work on. Any surprises? No. Apart from the the one where our regular bass player signals the rest of the band to come in and the one where the singer always gets lost in the middle and may come in early or late... or on time (again, only made clear on the night). Dress code? No. But they all decided to wear shorts and Hawaiian shirts on the night. To be fair, they were a great bunch and we had a laugh and none of the issues mentioned actually caused real problems. The band I'm playing with next Saturday have a reputation of being more 'professional' but in the last week I've had an avalanche of WhatsApp messages discussing the final set list (which has changed several times), keys and rehearsal dates. And 75% of the set for this gig are songs I've never played before, with perhaps 50% that I don't really know at all so I've put a lot of effort into getting familiar. Out of necessity I will be playing this gig with a cheat sheet. My approach is as a dep I am doing them a favour and enabling a gig that otherwise would not go ahead, so I have earned a bit of leeway (particularly if its at short notice). But I am also part of the band for the night so I will do my very best to fit in with the band ethic (look/feel etc) as it's their reputation on the line. To a certain extent that would include deciding what bass to use from a visual point of view. My go to clothing if there is no guidance would be black trousers, (usually decent looking jeans), a lightly patterned shirt and maybe a waistcoat, with black shoes. Although I do BVs and a few lead vocals, for a depping gig I would not usually offer to sing as that's an extra thing that could go wrong. I expect an equal share of the fee and I would not expect to have to pay any deductions for PA etc that other band members have agreed to. I would always want to see the setlist before giving a definite yes or no and I would be totally honest about my ability to nail the songs. It's in no one's interest to say yes to something you know you can't do, so the set would dictate the notice I need, as I'm not the quickest learner. Good habits? Mainly I try to remember that I am the hired hand and I'll aim to stand at the back and not try to stand out.

That's my preferred style. 😀 To the OP - good luck and enjoy.

I would not want to be in a band that was associated directly (or indirectly through the views of one or more of its members) with extreme views such as the ones mentioned in the OP. Anyone who knows me knows that I avoid talking about even the less radical, everyday politics because I don't believe it is relevant to the bands I'm in and it's an easy way to begin an argument. I have severed ties with one 'friend' who turned out to (or perhaps developed over time) fairly racist views. It was a very easy decision to make and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.