LawrenceH

Firstly, can I say thank you for the extra detail! It is useful. However, I don't understand where you have explained the difference between your product and a HPF on a typical crossover, perhaps I have missed this post but all I can see is one where you state that they are different without saying why. That is the point I'm not getting. [quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328284951' post='1525014'] Filter topology is not an information I am ready to make public ... I would be surprised if Neutrik sold jack sockets with the gold coating that wears out after a few uses. [/quote] That is why I asked about brand! A very thin gold coating wears almost immediately unless alloyed, that's just an engineering fact, and better quality plugs are important for several reasons. Neutrik are excellent, of course, and are the answer I was hoping for. It is fair that you are not willing to state the full filter topology but the steepness of slope is a critical bit of info, are you willing to disclose this? If not, if I already have a 24dB/oct LR or BW-type filter I would like to know how your product matches or outperforms it. It can't be seen from the photo on your page because there is no scale on the y axis. Regarding my point that you don't get, it is that without knowing what it is that differentiates the product from a typical HPF other than a smaller box, it is hard to assess it's value. The construction info is useful and helps explain the cost, but info on the electronic behaviour is lacking. I am more used to products in PA/broadcast/studio work where the specs are generally disclosed more readily. Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions.

[quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328265579' post='1524552'] I think it is down to the words we use more than anything else. I would use the words “more than I am ready to spend”, “more than I can afford” or “more than I usually spend for a pedal”. “Expensive” or “cheap” require the comparison with at least another product that performs the same functionalities. [/quote] Not exactly, perceived value also reflects cost and complexity of production. On the face of it, the micro thumpinator looks expensive for a high-pass filter. There are various PA crossovers with steep HPFs, though obviously input impedance would not be appropriate for passive instruments so they'd need to run in an FX loop. Rather than just saying that the thumpinator is 'professional' I would be very interested in what you think it offers in terms of electronics, ie filter topology, max clean output voltage/dynamic range, input impedance and any other design features. I have wondered about buying one in the past because it is a well-conceived device but without professional specifications it is too expensive/too much of an unknown in my signal chain. ps Gold-plated jacks per se don't matter (as I'm sure you know), it has to be a thick coating of gold not to wear out at the contact points with only a few uses. Good quality is far more important, so I'd be more interested in what brand the sockets are!

So, Dave of Firecreek guitars (user 'nugget') has a suitable jig and has offered to sort this out for me cheaper than I'd be able to set myself up for the job. I'll start a 'build diary' thread for anyone interested once this gets underway.

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328191279' post='1523315'] but if you run a flat amp into it, you'll get a pretty flat response. [/quote] Are you sure? Just that I thought these cabs used the higher sensitivity 12" drivers which are biased to the upper mids (rising response above 500k and again above 1k)? Pad that back and you lose the sensitivity advantages. The Big series with the separate mids are the ones I'd be looking at for true clear PA-type response. [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328191279' post='1523315'] What you say about sounding 'too HiFi' I imagine to mean has a bit of a mid scoop (as a lot of hifi stuff does). [/quote] I agree with this, and it's a really important point when considering overall band sound IMO. It's too easy to impress with a mid scoop but unless you're careful about where you scoop exactly, it all gets lost in the mix. Centre it around 1-1.5k covering an octave and it all sounds very clean in isolation but loses the bite in the mix. On the other hand a lower scoop of between say 250 and 500 really makes a jazz/ray in particular sound tight but still growl. I don't like the default TC cab/amp voicing because they seem to emphasise just this muddy region. It works for some situations (P with flats, old-school vibe) but in general when I've mixed front of house I've found it a difficult sound.

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1328175707' post='1522910'] Speaking purely as an amatuer DIY person. Unless you are sure of yourself with a chisel, I would be very aprehensive about wielding one anywhere near an Aerodyne that I owned. [/quote] I feel the same, except if I understand correctly the purfling cutter does most of the critical cutting and the chisel will (hopefully) follow the line. Still, I think it has potential to go rather catastrophically wrong. [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1328189354' post='1523273'] I'd be interested to hear this topic explored, as it's something I'd like to do as well, once I know how. [/quote] Looks much simpler starting with a neck blank, then you can either use a narrower fingerboard and have the depth as the channel, or if you want it deeper you can route with a couple of nice straight edges as guides. Best way I can think to do it with a shaped neck requires clamping it into a jig/sled to maintain a constant angle and provide a guide edge for a router bit plus space to work against. But if anyone has better suggestions or if the purfling cutter is something that can give good results for a careful novice then I'd love to know.

Hi all, I am currently defretting a 'practice' neck which oldslapper was kind enough to send for the cost of postage in preparation for having a go on my aerodyne jazz. All is going well so far, I've got the frets out, the nut off, the maple veneer in and the board sanded smooth with a 9.5" radius block (re-radiused from flatter, be 'interesting' to see how this plays!). Next I'll try epoxying it. But. For the aerodyne just to complicate things I quite fancy adding cream binding to match that on the body. I have a Dremel but no proper router, and looking at the various binding router bits on Stewmac, cutting accurate binding channels on an already shaped neck looks far from straightforward and would involve a high outlay on tools that I don't really want to make right now. So, would a purfling cutter and chisel be able to do this to a decent standard without a year's (and 50 necks' worth) of practice? I could have a try on the practice neck but obviously don't want to if it'd be a total waste of time. Alternatively, any of the BC luthiers fancy PM-ing me a quote for doing this? I know having a fretted neck bound is an expensive job with multiple stages but I'm hoping that since I'd just want the channel cut on an already defretted neck it might be more affordable. Thanks!

[quote name='tombomb' timestamp='1328048847' post='1521083'] Awesome. So essentially I want to tune a bit higher than 40, but too high and I risk farting when pushing the lows. Makes sense. What about tuning lower than 40, say at 30-35? Would that help support the 60-80 range (being roughy an octave higher?) [/quote] No, afraid it's the opposite, tuning lower means you get less volume up higher (80Hz region) and the cone will also move more potentially breaching xmax. Tuning lower protects the speaker below 40Hz at the expense of higher up. [quote name='tombomb' timestamp='1328048847' post='1521083'] Also, how much does it really matter? Will it be a really noticable about of drop off? [/quote] This is a good question, it depends on your sound preferences and how good you are at noticing! In my opinion a smoother roll-off is desirable but not often seen on a bass cab, and really it's not always such a massive problem. More noticeable than drop-off is when a driver has a boomy one-note bass type response, which relates to the next thing you ask: [quote name='tombomb' timestamp='1328048847' post='1521083'] It looks like the previous driver had a natural frequency of 38, the 18Sound's is 39, so not too different. (But again I'm probaby missing something and it's not just the natural frequency that affects the tuning) [/quote] Other factors are important which describe the electromechanical properties of the driver (Thiele-Small parameters) and together these describe the low frequency behaviour of a given driver in a given box/tuning. Manufacturers supply these specs. Luckily there is free computer software that lets you model the behaviour of a system based on these T/S parameteres including frequency response and cone excursion. A good program is WinISD pro alpha, if you're serious about cab design this is where to start and it isn't all that complicated. Obviously though, a frequency response plot is all very well but you need to relate that to what your ears hear to make sense of it in the real world! Good luck, fwiw I'd guess both those drivers will do the job with the 18sound being more 'bomb-proof' due to higher excursion capability. But the ampeg port sizes are quite small, this means you will likely not be able to get maximum bass from the 18sound without it 'chuffing' (air speed through the ports around box resonance is too high, messes up the port behaviour and sounds bad - solution = bigger ports lengthened to maintain correct tuning, down-size is it eats up internal box area)

If sanding proves tricky I'd try a sharp scalpel, and perhaps some heat?

[quote name='tombomb' timestamp='1327958442' post='1519595'] from the bit of research I've done the celestion's xmax of 2.5mm is pretty lacking compared to the 6.5mm of the 18sound, but I appreciate that this isn't the only factor. [/quote] Bear in mind that if Celestion reported Xmax the same way that 18sound did, they'd quote a figure of 4.5mm. However the 18 Sound is a much higher spec driver

[quote name='tombomb' timestamp='1327996729' post='1519925'] New to all of this but is it standard to tune to the lowest frequency you'll use, so in my case 41Hz? [/quote] No, a lot of cabs are tuned a fair bit higher than this - even Alex's stuff I'd imagine will be a few Hz above. There are three major considerations - one, what a bass guitar actually outputs at various frequencies, two, what these frequencies contribute to the overall sound you perceive, three, how a reflex ported speaker behaves either side of cabinet resonance. The first is very dependent on the instrument but without a lot of equalisation (think active pre with bass boosted) most basses playing an open E (or open B on a five string) will output less fundamental than octave harmonic. On the other hand though, string 'thump' rather than a note itself means a bass can easily generate substantial output well below 40Hz. The output curve of a bass guitar note relates to the second issue, that harmonic series is what tells your brain what bass note you're listening to more than the root itself and also that a lot of the 'power' you perceive from those low notes is actually from the harmonic of the octave above, around 60 to 120Hz. That's not to say you can't hear/feel the real lows, but most people playing without subs do well enough without them. So don't worry if your cab starts to roll off above 40Hz (nearly all do, they'd have to be ridiculously large in size not to). Room modes in the bass frequencies are also a complicating factor, too much bass can be a bad thing in a lot of situations. The third point about speakers is perhaps the most important - either side of cab resonance is where cone excursion rises, and if you tune too low then you get a region of high excursion right in the 'power' band around 60-80Hz. On the other hand tune too high and your cone excursion, which rises very rapidly as frequency falls below resonance, becomes a real problem. So it's a balancing act. An awful lot of cabs are tuned between 50 and 65Hz, and that is a range that seems to work well in practice though the higher tunings do tend to mean low notes, especially with bass boosted by EQ, will cause speaker 'fart out' if you're pushing things hard.

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1328032158' post='1520640'] Also, would it be worth trying out a neo speaker? The combo currently weighs an absolute ton. I'm conscious they're pretty expensive atm and don't want to spend a lot as it's not my amp at the end of the day. [/quote] The Peaveys cabs are so heavy that it hardly seems worth it, you'd only save 3 or 4 kilos out of about 9000

[quote name='ikay' timestamp='1327944103' post='1519203'] (except the Fender fluted type which I don't want). [/quote] Can I ask where you found these, and if they cost the earth?

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1327956888' post='1519558'] Definitely, they advertise it going down to 30Hz before the standard rolloff etc etc... [/quote] It doesn't even go down that low before it starts rolling off, I'd be amazed if they are tuned much below 45Hz. 30Hz is most likely -10dB at most. Oh I should edit my post for the typo, obv meant hi-pass filter!

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1327955551' post='1519509'] My Markbass cab enjoys low A.... [/quote] Then it definitely isn't seeing, and you're not hearing, a huge amount of fundamental (unsurprisingly). Though I think the MB are good cabs, there is no way one of their 410s can produce much down there at angry volume. I think the F1 preamp already has a modest amount of subsonic roll-off, but an additional, steeper low-pass filter wouldn't hurt at all.

[quote name='fluffo' timestamp='1327945148' post='1519223'] There all up there, but it's all down to tone, what is the perfect slap sound, I'm with bubinga as far as a universal good all round sound going from finger style to slap Miller is the man [/quote] I really, really prefer Larry Graham's tone from about 'Stand!' to 'My Radio Sure Sounds Good to Me', great heft to it for Soul Train-style booty shaking. Miller's sound is just so anodyne in comparison.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1327606298' post='1514209'] if a string vibrating sounds different because of the bass I can't see how that is neglibal [/quote] This is the point that people seem to completely fail to understand. I feel like a broken record, but dead spots. They exist, they are due to the materials/construction and prove conclusively (not that it's needed since Newton already did that job several hundred years ago, but he didn't apply the physics of mass-spring-damper systems to electric bass!) that wood contributes to tone. Whether it's 'negligible' or not depends on what you're comparing, of course.

Larry Graham's tone and feel kicks MM's a**e for me, way more guts to the sound. I like the MM Fender sig though, and the man himself comes across as pretty cool. I also like his playing with Herbie Hancock on the live vids on youtube.

This is coming along really nicely.

Ha this made me chuckle as over the last couple of days I have been pondering exactly the same thing in relation to series/parallel switching. Useful post, cheers!

Always available under £200, made in Japan, gotoh hardware, P/J, superbly balanced and well under 10lb...SGC Nanyo Bass Collection FTW! I think the wood on the translucent finishes is sen rather than swamp ash but this is true of a lot of Jap instruments (looks identical). Not sure about the solid bodies but at least some were alder.

Hmm, sometimes I do think 'taste' is used as a euphemism for 'lacking sense of fun'. Personally, I have impeccable taste. I just don't bother using it very often

I'd still much rather hear the live band than the sequenced studio recordings... but, from the clips I honestly don't hear much interesting from the rhythm section, the arrangements are quite boring from a groove perspective (though, nice vocal parts as I said before). Beyonce's influences supposedly include some of the most awesome acts,but I don't think these arrangements are a patch on the live bands of MJ, Fela, Diana Ross, Prince etc. In comparison it just sounds generic, albeit well-produced and executed.

I think it's great to really nail a part, getting the fine detail of a good line teaches me so much about another player's style and improves my own playing. BUT having done that, on a gig I'd do my own thing! I can't ever see myself playing slavish covers, may as well just put the record on.