LawrenceH

This is a superb thread, I salute you Linus27! Pointless debates about the nature of meaning are guaranteed to go on and on... I've decided that a Jazz bass is whatever Fender choose to call a jazz bass. Except the Mark Hoppus. No others count, except those used to play jazz. Come on guys, get really heated about your arbitrary stance! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics

Definitely go pickups over pre-amp IMO. Changing the passive electronics set-up can also have a big effect on the sound and it tends to be cheap, as well as reversible. Switching all the pots from 250k to 500k will enhance the pickups' resonant peak (= more treble 'bite', very noticeably in my recent experience!). Adding capacitors in series with the volume will lower the frequency of this peak giving it a different character, while changing the tone pot capacitor will alter the range the tone control works over. You could even go a bit mad and try a varitone which allows switching between different capacitor values, with or without an inductor which allows quite complex filtering effects like scooped mids and giving a very broad tonal range.

Controls being 'all or nothing' is a fairly common problem normally due to the 'taper' of the pots. Google linear versus log taper pots to find out what that's all about. But also bear in mind that the 'log' tapers commonly used for volume controls are actually an approximation that can be more or less good depending on the quality of the pot. CTS are generally recommended as good upgrade pots, I've used Alpha brand pots recently, which work well but have smaller carbon tracks so I don't expect them to be as rugged. Blending is potentially a more complicated issue, are you using 2 separate volume controls, one for each pickup, or it a master volume plus blend setup? This latter can be a bit annoying on passive basses apparently (not something I've ever used). Blending between a P and a J can have particular problems unless the pickups are well-matched. To get really fine control over individual pickup volumes in a 2-pickup setting then a buffering preamp is probably the way to go. Having said that, it's perfectly possible for a passive setup to work well enough, those on my P/J Aerodyne wired VVT are very usable. Tone control on all my basses functions right across the pot range. Volume controls do too as long as only using one pickup at a time.

The vocals are superb...but not overly fussed about the rest of the band, competent but not exactly the NPG!

I'd suggest when playing with the frequencies on the EQ that you start with all shape/deep controls switched out, to give you a better idea of what each one does in isolation. Really cranking up one of the mids and then sweeping as Mr Foxen says, lets you identify both desirable and undesirable freqs more easily. Use extreme settings to identify these things but much less once you know where they are...it's easy to over-EQ a sound! IME a good 'generic' EQ for a jazz bass is a little boost around 100-200Hz for extra solidity, a slight cut the octave or so above (250-500Hz) to remove boominess, and then a boost around 2-3kHz for some extra grind to go with your bump. Incidentally I suspect the J retro pre has a similar 'natural' contour to this, which tends to accentuate the natural character of a jazz with both pups on full. Whether you like this or not is up to you!

The F1 is a very flat amp. I'm surprised if it's not popular for double bass, though I suppose it lacks things like notch filters. Sure it'd sound good through the right cabs though.

[quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1327055335' post='1505643'] Tis True, Youtube is full to the brim with bass lesson. i.e. Marlow DK is a top guy (sure he will have been mentioned) No need to sit in front of someone to learn to slap. [/quote] Youtube is incredible for lessons, but to make use of it in this way you have to be able to dissect your own technique, not everyone can do that especially while they're concentrating on something they can't do. Always worth having a few lessons to pick up on problems. Whether it's youtube or a teacher though, you need to learn from someone with a thorough understanding themselves or you just learn someone else's bad habits.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1326967520' post='1504316'] Learn about EQ'ing a bass and you'll get more than close to that sound, IMO. [/quote] Absolutely agree. With new-ish strings and the right amp/EQ you can get that sound out of a jazz, no problem. Of course, you need some way of EQ-ing it...

It's a bit trite but tone is indeed in the mids. Monitors can do a fine job of bass reproduction often using identical drivers to many bass cabs but usually with better crossover/tweeter implementations for a given price. As always though, you get what you pay for. If you want really heavy bass then you need dedicated high-excursion woofers...but look around and most of these are actually designed as PA drivers. Alternatively acres of speaker or a more exotic speaker design will do it! Again, the latter at least is more often seen in PA. Main disadvantage of angled monitors for bass IMO is that they reduce cab internal volume for a given footprint. Often worth it to hear yourself clearly though

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1326895020' post='1503328'] something that disperses sweat would be required on the coarser grades of steel because a cloth won't get into the microscopic nooks and crannies... [/quote] I suspect that's right, which is why I wondered about a solvent perhaps followed by a lubricant like fast fret to fill the holes and help prevent the sweat getting in in the first place. FF definitely leaves the strings coated in something. I guess, if you find strings are helped by boiling/soaking in solvent, then gunk physically impeding the strings plays as big a part as actual corrosion. If you used a coating agent then it'd have to have appropriate viscosity etc not to do this.

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1326880601' post='1503039'] I think for those who have corrosive sweat (like I do) the preference for the more expensive strings is also that they last longer - this is likely because the surface of the steel/nickel is smoother, so less sweat can get itself in there and start the corroding process. [/quote] If corrosion rather than physical deformation is the main factor ageing your strings, doesn't something that coats them (like fast fret? don't know what's in that tbh) help extend their life? Or just wiping them down with isopropyl wipes after playing, rather than waiting for them to corrode before soaking them in it?

Not familiar with Gibson-type stuff but If it sounds good as is, what about potting the pickup?

I still much prefer condensers/back electrets on 'difficult' vocals, particularly female. The extra clarity is very noticeable IME, bizarrely especially through cheaper speakers - I suppose all the distortion is additive. You do get more feedback to start with but this is partly just beacuse the mics are a lot more sensitive, particularly at the high end. You can roll off a lot of treble on a condenser before it becomes problematic, the clarity is maintained better. Don't worry where the EQ is, use your ears (most mics don't give anything like flat responses anyway). Just like dynamics though, there are condensers out there that are much better or worse than others in terms of polar plots/feedback rejection. The main issue I've found is that some desks that don't have a pad will struggle to cope with the hot signal off certain condenser mics.

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1326672208' post='1500421'] It's interesting how every Jazz bass sounds different depending on the pick ups and electrics, yet they all still sound like a Jazz bass somehow. [/quote] Yup indeed they do, I'd attribute a lot of that to the characteristic comb-filtering created by the pickup spacing/position.

That's ~1V RMS as opposed to the Crown's 1.4V, a lot better than some...if that's a nominal output level (not maximum) which it implies then as long as the BC1 has some headroom on top of this you should be fine I'd have thought?

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1326707729' post='1500620'] my preamps offer jack output but would it be as simple as getting jack to XLR instrument cable to go between pre/power amps? [/quote] The basic answer is yes. The complicated answer is that Crown amps have relatively high voltage requirements on the inputs if you want to get the full wattage out. Make sure your pre is powerful enough to drive it adequately, otherwise a different pre or a different amp with more sensitive inputs would be a better choice.

I was surprised to see that there were no reviews of the Model Js already posted on here. There are plenty of reviews out there already, but I thought it might be worth doing one focusing on the wiring/passive electronics side of things. There is a techy bit in the middle for those that like that... I recently installed these in an ash CIJ 75RI with maple fretboard. Previously this bass was ok but despite the alleged US pickups the tone somehow lacked authority across the spectrum, with neither the solid bottom nor the aggressive growl and upper-mid clank of a really good jazz bass. Swapping the originals with some MIM 'vintage' alnicos as used in the HWY1 and 'Classic' series improved things somewhat (I think these are great trad-sounding pickups), but I still felt it was a little lacking compared to the snappy acoustic tone of the bass. Throughout all the changes, the strings remained the same rather ancient (2 years now?) DR Black Beauties. Not the toppiest string to start with and now very very worn. I much prefer old strings when auditioning basses, makes it easier to judge the contribution of the bass/pickups etc. I went for the 'creme' option, the adjustable matte-black pole pieces make this extra retro snazzy, or a horrendous eyesore, depending on your taste. As other users have noted, the large ceramic magnets on the base of these pickups make them stand a good deal taller than alnico equivalents. At first I was worried they wouldn't fit at all, but after removing the Fender pickup foam and replacing this with a thin sliver of the foam the DiMarzios were supplied in (as recommended in the installation instructions) they dropped in just far enough to allow me room to adjust the height to taste. The DiMarzios are split-coil 4-wire pickups, allowing you the option of series or parallel wiring each pickup [i]separately[/i]. This is different from the jazz 'S1 mod' where a [i]pair[/i] of pickups are giving series/parallel wiring between them. I initially chose parallel wiring, and the tone of the bass was far more 'solid' with more bottom end and low-mids in particular. However, I still wasn't completely satisfied as I like that jazz top-end bite, so last week I set about making more mods. Before going any further, here is a link to a very good explanation of how pickups shape tone (mainly focusing on the high end) and how the different electronics options interact with this: [url="http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/"]http://buildyourguit...esources/lemme/[/url] The take-home messages in relation to this review are: -That [b]pickups have a resonant peak before cut-off[/b], ie they emphasise characteristic frequencies in the upper-mid/treble range. -Pickup inductance determines the frequency/Q of the peak. You can adjust the [b]frequency[/b] [b]downward[/b] by increasing capacitive load or by [b]switching the wiring from parallel to series[/b]. This latter will [b]halve[/b] the resonant frequency of the pickup as well as boost overall output. -Adjusting the resistive load by changing [b]pot values[/b] alters the [b]height[/b] of the peak (Q). DiMarzio's 'standard' wiring, as far as I can tell, is series, and their standard recommended pots are 500k whereas those in my Fender are 250k. My parallel wiring will give a higher peak frequency than the standard but the Fender pots will reduce the peak height. So I decided to install 500k pots to raise the height (not frequency) of the resonant peak, and decided that if I was going to bother I may as well use push-pull (DPDT) volume pots so I could switch each pickup independently between series and parallel. Rather than the fantastically expensive DiMarzio push-pull pots, I used cheaper alpha pots from StewMac in the US (since I was ordering some other bits and bobs anyway). DiMarzio helpfully have lots of wiring diagrams for various configurations, I used this one but altered it so series engaged with the pot out rather than in: [url="http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/pj_2ppdualsndv1t.pdf"]http://www.dimarzio....pdualsndv1t.pdf[/url] Anyway...the most important thing from my perspective is that increasing the pot values to 500k gave me exactly the effect I was after. The treble 'bite' is much more prominent while the low end authority of the bass is preserved. Tbh I was surprised how much of a subjective difference it made, that peculiar effect where the bass just feels easier to play. With both pickups on full I get a classic 70s and 80s-style jazz bass tone - more Larry than Marcus, with tons of character and aggressive enough to cut through a mix when I dig in hard. It doesn't quite have the airy extended top end of the real US Fender Vintage 75 pickups (which I have on another bass) but is very good and sounds like a Fender jazz nonetheless. Soloing each pickup gives very useable versions of the classic JB single-pickup tones. Switching each pickup into series mode, the most obvious effects with both pickups on full is an increase in volume. Compensating for this you can hear the shift in resonant peak, giving a more 'middy' sound with a bit more oomph in the bass. Where it really comes into its own is with each pickup solo'd or combining series/parallel. The neck pickup in series is instant 'Precision', while the bridge has a handy low-end boost making that 'Jaco-esque' sound useable in a wider range of situations at the expense of a little treble. The tone control also has a very obviously different character when the pickups are in series versus parallel. Overall, I think if you bother to install DiMarzios at all it's worth spending the extra at least on 500k pots, ideally on the push-pull variants. You could even use a third on the tone knob either to mimic the Fender s1 mod or give phase-reverse options, though I am happy enough as is. I may at some point try a 1Meg pot on the tone for a further small increase in brightness, but right now this is at last giving me the sounds that I've been after for a very long time. It's extremely versatile, if I had to choose one setting it would be all parallel, everything on full. But I don't have to choose, woo! Playing with combinations of series-parallel/varying volume whilst playing along with various funk, pop etc tracks, I've found it fairly easy to get a tone that's a reasonable match to whatever I'm listening to, even (to an extent) with records that use a Stingray. I am now very happy indeed with these pickups.

Rubber band around the headstock is my cheapskate, bodge suggestion!

[quote name='far0n' timestamp='1326646034' post='1499878'] See now, at 8 ohms each channel only puts out 450W. So I'm not really getting anywhere near the full load. [/quote] 'Only'?! Didn't you say you were running 2 8-ohm cabs, ie 900 watts total? I have a similar PLX2450 for PA work, even into 8 ohms it is enough to shake down walls. The 1300 watts you'd get running the amp at 4 ohm bridged (ie two 8 ohm cabs run in parallel) won't actually make it significantly louder compared to 900 watts (two 8 ohm cabs, one on each channel), especially when speaker limitations/power compression is taken into account. Before looking at new pre-amps do you have access to any mixing desks? Easiest way to check whether it's the amp or the pre that is limiting things is to DI into a desk that outputs around +4dB sensitivity, ie the correct sensitivity to drive your amp, and play through that. Even the cheap little Behringer numbers have enough to juice for your purposes (+/-18V supply on the one in front of me, for example). Problem with a lot of guitar and bass pre-amps/pedals is that they don't operate at 'professional' standard output levels. PA stuff does, so to drive a PA amp properly you need the gear to match it.

[quote name='far0n' timestamp='1326636113' post='1499740'] But I'm finding this isn't loud enough, I'm at least having to turn the rig up full whack. [/quote] 900 watts should normally be more than loud enough for anything, unless you're running tiny cabs, in which case it'll normally be more than enough to fry them! What are you using as a pre-amp to drive this? The QSC has an input sensitivity of 1.23V, it's possibly worth mentioning that a lot of bass pre-amps on the market can't actually supply this adequately. If you don't have an appropriate pre-amp then you are not getting full power out of the QSC.

Not sure of the value I'm afraid but it looks like it has the S1 switch. It's also IMO one of the more desirable models because it has the 4+1 tuner config.

The modern Vox AC4 with quarter watt setting is pretty handy for home use. The 4 watt setting sounds about loud enough for small gigs too - personally, I'd like that when doing sound. Can always mic a cab and get better dispersion to boot.

The CV Squiers are well built, don't worry about where they're made. Though the pickup is a weak spot you can change this at a later date. Personally, if I were a general in charge of an army of bassists, standard issue for new recruits would be a Yamaha, either BB414 or RBX374, and a Roland Cube of some description. The Yamahas are not only fantastic value for money, they are good basses full stop. The Cube amp is more versatile than anything else in that price range. A lot of cheap amps I've played through just destroy the timbre of the bass - worst was an Ashdown Perfect 10, sounded like playing through a duvet. The EB range are miles better - but the Cube has been the best I've tried so far. As per above, secondhand is the smart way.