LawrenceH

Don't worry too much about watts per se, it's a misleading spec at best that doesn't directly relate to output capability. 150 watts through enough speakers can be ear-bleedingly loud. Having said that, to match the levels a 2x12 60 watt valve guitar amp is capable of you'd want one serious mother of a bass amp and PA system. I've happily gigged an Electric Blue 12-150 and it has decent grunt for the money and size, but it doesn't have the oomph to really keep up with a guitar amp at full tilt. If your band are 'reasonable' and you can use PA for larger gigs then it'll do and one can be had for around £100 secondhand. For a similar small footprint but louder you have to spend quite a lot to get something new, like the Markbass. One thing that occurs to me, a heavyweight amp is a lot easier to deal with than a heavyweight speaker cabinet. Secondhand, maybe looking for a cheap robust head, like a Trace Elliot, and separate lighter neo speakers, would be the way forward. This way you could start with a single 8-ohm cab and add another as required and when budget allowed.

So...who are these logic-defying musicians whose piece was the 'culmination of a lifetime's work' that then go on to live another 90 years?! Personally I think if they've got an extra (pretty damn generous) lifetime than the rest of us they're lucky enough already. I know a fair few musicians from 60s got into reincarnation but still...

Sounds like what happens when one side of a balanced signal goes down, especially if the mic setting was noisy.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1324210241' post='1471769'] I hope you're joking. If you are then say so, laugh it off and move on because a silly face at the end of such a statement doesn't really negate it for me. If not - have you any evidence of this actually happening? I'm only asking because I DO have evidence of this NOT happening and in the interests of fairness and not wishing to see someone's livelihood jeopardised by malicious libel I am quite willing to cite it in rebuttal to your ridiculous statement. [/quote] Oh dear, someone got out of bed on the not-funny side today! It's just a jokey ref to another thread - made me laugh anyway, obv not meant to be taken seriously.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1324162699' post='1471480'] Did you ever see the experiment in Talkbass where someone gave tracks of a guitar with a solid alder body and a bolt on neck and the same pups and strings on a plank of wood found on the floor. No-one could tell which was which. [/quote] That bloody thread must be the most misunderstood piece of confusing 'evidence' about wood and tone ever. It is entirely irrelevant, except for perhaps demonstrating the unsurprising fact that the same pickup position and strings on two different pieces of wood have the potential to sound similar, especially through computer speakers. What it doesn't do is prove that wood has no effect on tone. It is n of 1 with no info on wood resonant frequencies, densities etc etc and the lack of consensus doesn't even preclude the possibility that people can hear a difference,just that they can't ascribe it to one or the other. Anyway, I've been flamed on here before about wood but I think it's actually very interesting, so at the risk of virtual immolation once again, the physics behind wood's contribution to tone is well-characterised. For a string fixed between two points, unless the mounting bar (read: body) is perfectly rigid (which is impossible) then some energy will be imparted to the bar, transfer of which will be most efficient at resonant modes eg the primary resonant frequency. This in turn leads to faster decay of the string note envelope in a frequency-dependent fashion and this is itself amplified via the pickup. An unambiguous demonstration of the role resonant frequency plays is to take a Fender guitar with a dead spot at a particular fret and put a small c clamp on the headstock. The node causing the dead spot will shift as the mass of the clamp has altered the resonant frequency(ies) of the neck. Headless basses were designed in part to address this phenomenon, so it's important to recognise that both material and construction contribute - if the latter didn't, xylophones would only be able to play one note. Graphite composite is a very stiff material, and I'd imagine it has a correspondingly high resonant frequency such that the energy imparted to the body is minimised- out of interest, are Statii acoustically quiet compared to, say, a typical Fender, notably in the mids? Fixing wings onto this type of material won't make much of a difference and you'd expect such an instrument to sustain very well with an even decay envelope. Similarly, laminate neck-throughs are typically going to be very stiff and strong. But take a non-laminate, lightweight neck and bolt it onto a medium density bit of wood and now you have the potential for significant resonance modes in the mid-range which will affect the tone of the instrument more noticeably. Anything that then alters the way the [i]system[/i] resonates, which can be making a bit of wood thinner, or stiffer, or a high mass bridge, has the potential to be audible. Acoustic guitar builders have more tricks up their sleeve here because the construction plays an even more dominant/complex role in tone, so they can incorporate bracing, change back, top and side woods to alter mass versus stiffness of any one part of the system and in multiple planes through the material, as well as altering Helmholtz resonator tuning which will play a dominant role in tone. We can't do a lot of that with electric basses so tend to be more reliant on the inherent properties of the wood in that respect, laminate construction notwithstanding. Btw I'm sure that even if instruments did tend to differ in general it's perfectly possible to build bolt-ons with the characteristics of neck-thoughs and vice versa.

Top thread Bilbo!

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1324071907' post='1470688'] Why do you take this approach mate? The song is king, [b]the singer brings the song alive[/b], you and me are just there to enhance the experience and support the song and the singer. We are very important, us bassists, but we should not get above ourselves, the best bassists understand their role within the music [b]and support its purpose.[/b] [/quote] Depends on the track and the purpose really though...otherwise instrumentals'd be a bit of a non-starter! But I can sort of see what Guildbass is saying, there's something very satisfying and uniquely musical about a 'naturalistic' mix where the players work around the sounds of each others' instruments, giving each instrument the space to allow its full spectrum through via the arrangement, rather than squashing each into a narrow frequency and dynamic range. That can be great too, of course.

Ah right, that's ok then! The washer trick suggested by ikay is definitely worth trying before anything more drastic, means the truss rod starts applying pressure earlier on along the adjusting nut's travel. Worked well on my Jap jazz, but I remember it took me a while to find a suitably sized washer to fit the bullet truss adjustment hole.

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1324040865' post='1470100'] Buy a cab with a tweeter then turn it off if you don't need it and then when you do you have it maybe....? [/quote] Problem with this, is that often the switches just turn off the tweeter leaving the low-pass on the crossover still engaged (assuming the cab has one) meaning it doesn't sound equivalent to cab that didn't have a tweeter in the first place, much duller in fact. I'm no rock player but I've never seen the need for a tweeter on a cab with decent midrange extension All these different cab suggestions are fine, but essentially you're just buying Eminence drivers in a box, and nearly all the neo ones are based around some kind of Deltalite with (I think) the sole exception being the BF models which use the Kappalite. That's Eminence's top-of-the-line driver. If there's a crossover involved then that changes the voicing, as does using OEM tweaked versions of the drivers. But Alex is using both the highest spec woofers and, where applicable, midrange drivers of any of these manufacturers. Whether or not you like the styling or prefer the cabs a bit chunkier/tougher than the braced 9mm is a different matter. For me I'd think about the voicing I prefer, notably whether you want a separate midrange, then decide if you need/can utilise the extra output on offer from the BF gear. The EAD stuff does look lovely and I bet it sounds nice as well, but ultimately it won't match the BF for maximum output and the same goes for every single other 2x12 mentioned. Of course, that's immaterial if you don't need it in the first place.

When you say 'bending to the right' what do you mean? If the neck has a kink that isn't forward to back (as looking from above sighting down the neck) then you may have a problem

[quote name='Bloodaxe' timestamp='1323915327' post='1468713'] Wouldn't risk Acetone... It might well degrease the finish right the way down to bare wood, & that would be bad. [/quote] I definitely would risk acetone...if the finish on the guitar at the moment is acetone soluble then it would be risky spraying over it anyway, due to the compatibility reasons outlined by Ou7shined. However since it's most likely chemically cured 2-pack polyurethane, acetone won't do a thing to it.

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1323867775' post='1467944'] Yep, it's possible. The cab i owned was buildt around 2009/10, before the Neo crisis... [/quote] Genz Benz's website certainly used to have a bit explicitly about the driver, which they call GNX 12300. It said in that bit [size=3]'rated at 300 watts RMS and utilizes a 2 1/2" aluminum edge-wound high temperature voice coil. The 7 oz Neodymium magnet[/size]'... The sensitivity spec is lower than the nominal Eminence figure for a Deltalite though at 98dB - perhaps they tamed the mid peak below the 4k crossover but I wonder if it isn't modified with a longer voicecoil and perhaps a bigger heatsink to give a little more power handling and excursion? Over on Greenboy's forum I've seen references to it being a 3012-based design based on woofer appearance, so maybe it is indeed somewhere in between.

[quote name='EdwardCunliffe' timestamp='1323521059' post='1464148'] I suppose I should check mine is disconnecting properly whe the lead is unplugged. [/quote] Yes, based on what you see on forums it seems it's surprisingly common for them to be wired up wrong!

Also, in case you haven't spotted it I have started a build diary over in the relevant subforum to construct a pair of lightweight 35 litre 1x10 speakers, using Celestion drivers but they'd work with the Eminence drivers - I try to explain my thinking behind it over there so perhaps it'd be useful if you're looking to do something at all similar.

[quote name='tm486' timestamp='1323776391' post='1466800'] Will there be any large benefit to having the box tuned to 41Hz or will this increase the box size too much? [/quote] The problem with doing this is that mechanical excursion of the woofer in the crucial 1st harmonic region gets considerable placing a practical limit on how loud you can go, while at the same time you lose sensitivity in that same region. The other issue is that tuning to this frequency requires quite a long port taking up further internal space. It's all a trade-off but personally with typical 10" drivers I'd place a greater priority on 60 to 100Hz region than 40-60. What are your priorities from a cabinet out of small, loud, deep? To get an answer to this question it helps to have a play around with speakers that have a really excellent smooth bass response to see the effect of boosting different frequencies on bass guitar. Decent headphones do a surprisingly good job here, certainly compared to typical small hifi speakers, but they won't thump you in the chest like a big subwoofer can! What amp and bass would you be using with these cabs?

I've said it before but though the filters give quite a powerful funky sound, they sound very lo-fi compared to a proper synth (not in a good way) and the flexibility/editability is rubbish with a fair number of the oscillator configs being of very limited use. How good are the Roland bass guitar midi converters? Because if you linked one of them up even to something cheap like a minikorg then it would destroy the Deep Impact in every conceivable way!

Cheapy rubbish 12mm ply for prototype has been bought...don't have a router so advice on a blade for a powered jig-saw for cutting the baffle hole greatly appreciated! Have had problems in the past with the blade deflecting as you go round. Currently thinking about drilling at multiple points just inside the circle, joining these up then finishing off with a rasp. any alternative suggestions/general advice welcomed.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1323773035' post='1466727'] it is a tiny concern and is certainly not worth any of us getting our knickers in a twist over. [/quote] In a practical sense I think you are quite right, the vast majority of times it will make no difference. But the theoretical key to this issue and what is poorly understood, even by those engineers who don't really work with wood, is that wood exhibits significant viscoelasticity rather than being purely elastic. You allude to this of course, but it means that (again 'in theory') Billy and the other people who get all wound up about neck tension in storage have a point. Even modest stress sustained for sufficiently long will result in what's termed viscoelastic creep leading to permanent deflection. How long is 'sufficiently long' is the question! Heating/steaming the wood under compression effectively speeds this up. Unlike what you seem to say earlier (I may have misunderstood your meaning sorry), loosening the strings with the truss rod under tension doesn't 'relax' the wood it just releases one side of a balanced-tension system. [quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1323773035' post='1466727'] People sometimes don't get just how little the t/r moves under operation [/quote] This is a bit of a red herring though, what matters is the induced stress and resultant deflection in the wood, whether it comes from a small movement via leverage is neither here nor there. I should reiterate that I absolutely agree it's really not likely to make a practical difference over a relatively short period. Chances of it having a big enough effect to pull the system out of range of the truss rod action are even less likely. But I wouldn't be surprised if basses kept for years with nasty bows that were initially temporary start to show permanent creep deflection, independent of environmental conditions. Of course, the two could interact with environmental factors inducing changes in the wood that in turn significantly increase the tension (I should maybe say at this point that my father-in-law is an engineer who specialises in timber construction!).

Tbh there is no harm in being a (polite, to start with) pain in the a&*e and it's often the best way, especially at a busy time like the lead-up to Christmas. I'd be nagging them daily at this point.

[quote name='tm486' timestamp='1323525448' post='1464196'] Hi, I am totally new to cab building and just fancy giving it a try, so forgive any stupid questions please. I am thinking of building 1 or 2 1x10 bass cabs mainly just to give it a go, and I’ve come up with a few questions. I’ve been looking at a pair of eminence deltalite 2510 ii’s or a pair of eminence basslite s2010’s. I’ve been looking at the specs and they seem to be fairly similar; my question is which is better suited to bass guitar or what would the main noticeable differences be between the two choices? Also how would I calculate the port size and length to make a ported enclosure? Thanks in advance for any help, Tom [/quote] Hi Tom, The Deltalite has a cast frame, which is generally a sign of a higher-spec driver (though what this means in practice varies). The extra thermal wattage rating means it'll go a little bit louder overall but the performance of each speaker at bass frequencies is limited to about the same output level due to how much the cone moves back and forth. For modelling the low frequency behaviour of the loudspeakers, the Thiele-Small parameters included on the manufacturer's datasheet (together with Xmax which indicates cone excursion linear limit) can be plugged into software like WinISD pro alpha (free). This lets you see the effect of box size and port tuning, and also indicates how long a port should be for a given tuning, box volume and port diameter. For a 1x10 speaker ~35 litres internal volume tuned to about 50-55Hz is a reasonable starting point for both these drivers IMO. The Deltalite will have slightly more of a 'hump' in the response around 100Hz, which can be quite effective at conveying an impression of 'bassiness', but the difference is pretty small. For a single 1x10 I'd personally use the Deltalite but for a 2x10 (say, 70 litres also tuned to ~50Hz) I'd consider using two s2012s to save a bit of cash and also weight, you have the potential for a very light cab there. You could go a bit smaller or a bit larger for these cabs, doing that will decrease or increase the bass response respectively.

[quote name='ficelles' timestamp='1323735547' post='1466502'] Ok so I just noticed an Akai SB-1 Deep Impact on fleabay with an asking price of £650. So I've never played through one or even knowingly heard one but I know they are well rated, but really? £650? *That* good? Someone tell me what it's all about... ficelles [/quote] They are not...they're pretty good but for that price I'd buy a proper synthesiser!

[quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1323710054' post='1466108'] As a slight aside, knowing what I now know about xmax and fartout, do you think that manufacturers use the Deltalite 2512 instead of the Basslite 2012 just so that they can quote the higher wattage? [/quote] The 2512 has a cast frame, which from what I understand, in general leads to greater stiffness/less resonance compared to typical pressed steel (as seen in the basslite). The frame is also important for wicking heat away from the driver, and cast alu should be better at that so in theory you'd expect the deltalite to show reduced power compression in comparison to the basslite. It's not all down to T/S parameters, how the thing performs under load matters, and Xmax is not the only relevant measure. I bet waterfall plots would favour the deltalite. In a general sense cast woofers tend to sound better, though obv there are plenty of exceptions and cast frames tend to be reserved for premium drivers so you'd expect them to perform better anyway.

If you look at the insides of the traveller 10"-based cabs they (certainly used to) use a driver based on the B&C HPL64, whereas the Classic 108 uses what looks like B&C 10CL51. Assuming the specs are similar to the OEM drivers (and the travellers sound like it to me) then these will give quite different voicings, the former being more aggressive in the upper-mids and the latter being a bit more rich in the bottom end. Afraid I don't know about any other driver sizes but it's evident from the 10"s that Markbass use more than one chassis type depending on application.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1323614247' post='1465021'] It all depends on what you are painting it with and how compatible with the original finish it is. Personally I'd take back down to the grain filler level just to avoid any misshapes. [/quote] Surely a Squier factory finish is going to be 2-part polyester or something equally inert? A new finish might even be more likely to react with any filler than the poly coat. I'd suggest keying a small bit of the original and spraying just that to check for good adherence and compatibility - stripping the whole lot off and getting a new flat black undercoat is a lot of work only to get you back to where it started.

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1323515552' post='1464055'] but where do you draw the line ? [/quote] This for me sums it up. Better off just making sure all your kit, including the bass, is well looked after and regularly serviced.