LawrenceH

[quote name='hhoward' post='1144111' date='Feb 28 2011, 03:25 AM']but if anyone out they has Sennheiser HP280 pro's and and Alesis M1 MkII's for sale PLEASE let me know, maybe then i can get both[/quote] I'd suggest you have a look at these articles: [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/articles/mixingheadphones.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec03/arti...gheadphones.htm[/url] [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/studioheadphones.htm"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/arti...oheadphones.htm[/url] [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/articles/sennheiserhd600.asp"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun02/arti...heiserhd600.asp[/url] Note what they say about open/semi-open v closed back - although the HD280s are rated highly as 'best budget closed-back' they may not be as good a choice as an equivalent-priced Sennheiser open-back design for studio-based mixing. Unfortunately they don't have any budget open-backed models in the test, I've included the link to the HD600 and I think there's also an updated 650 version, but these may be a bit expensive - maybe check out the 595s/598s? These last two I haven't heard personally but I'd expect them to be more natural than the 280s. Btw the other nice thing about open-backed headphones compared to closed that I've found, is that they tend to be comfier when worn for long periods.

Oh yes, and I can hear more detail in a mix on the Sennheiser HD280s than on the Alesis M1s, but I wouldn't trust the bass end mixed on either!

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1143185' date='Feb 27 2011, 12:05 PM']Yes but so do speakers.[/quote] Yes, this is the point - ALL cheap stuff sounds very obviously different because it all colours the sound in different ways as each manufacturer chooses a different set of compromises. As you start to get more expensive, the sounds start to converge as the colourations become less noticeable and they get closer to 'flat clean' response. The key difference between headphones and speakers is that the price-point at which you start to notice this convergence is a lot lower for the 'phones than the speakers! FWIW I have the Alesis M1 MkIIs, and I also chose them over a lot of other reference monitors after auditioning them as Dannybuoy did. They were sonically closest in character to the £600 Genelecs, and fairly detailed sound. However they have a more smeared bass end than the Genelecs and the Genelecs are even more detailed. The Genelecs weren't even the best speakers there. If you spend £150 on well-chosen headphones you will get a 'truer' representation of the music than similarly priced monitors, other than the stereo imaging (but that to me is not such an issue since at least half the time people are listening on headphones anyway these days). Open or closed back headphones: the open let the sound out both sides, the closed have a sealed cup around the ear. The open 'phones give a clearer, less distorted bass response and are what I'd choose to mix on except in situations where you absolutely have to block out external noise or prevent too much sound leaking out of the 'phones'. This is why people use things like the HD25s, they're good all-round mix headphones for live use as they block out a decent amount of the outside sound and have a fairly detailed midrange. But they're not as good for the studio as a decent open design. Whatever you use to mix on, you have to get used to how it sounds and how the mixes translate to other systems - use commercial tracks that you know well as a reference.

[quote name='Paul S' post='1140990' date='Feb 25 2011, 11:21 AM']Thanks for that Lawrence - it doesn't surprise me that the P-Lyte isn't much of an improvement - if at all. I am certainly enjoying the Bass Collection a lot. Just out of curiosity what did you do to upgrade the electrics? Mine is (I think) the B-310, so not the high end of the spectrum.[/quote] I didn't, I bought a 330 which has the soapbars and an active/passive switch and just run it passive! But if I was going to upgrade the 310 I'd go for EMGs and make it growl!

Pickups and it will sound like a whole new bass. Then a fret dress and it'll feel like one too!

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1142871' date='Feb 26 2011, 10:46 PM']Mae sure and use really good masking tape.Tamiya gets my vote.[/quote] Yup. Also, depending on the feasibility with a particular design spray the colour you want as a background first once the tape's in place, then the top colour. The first colour plugs the gaps and helps keep the edge lines clean.

I'm with Phil, give it a go. Yes, a true horn-loaded or bandpass sub will have a lot more bass than a typical 4x10 bass cab, but in the real-world I've used a pair of 1x12" bass cabs as emergency makeshift subs in the past exactly for kick reinforcement and they did a very useful job of fattening the sound up. And in my very first band we used to just chuck a mic in the kick drum and run it through the spare channel on a trace V-type through a 4x12 combo and it was phat city.

The guys over at sound on sound have suggested that headphones are actually often a better way to go than cheaper monitors in a space that's non-optimal and from my experience I agree. I have the HD280 pros and they're ok (great for live mixing and tracking duties because they attenuate outside sound so effectively), but for reference mixing I'd get an open-backed design as the bass never sounds 'right' on closed-back 'phones. I like Sennheisers but at the high end of the market Sony and Beyer also have some good options - not the DT100s though! 150s maybe? FWIW when I auditioned a load of budget/mid-priced monitors in an acoustically treated fairly flat/neutral room I was surprised how much variation there was between different models at the lower end of the market. I'd say you have to spend at least £500 before things start to get more uniform and transparent, and then you still have the problem of the room you're mixing in needing to be optimised. A £150 set of open-backed headphones will comfortably outperform any monitors of equivalent price, with the caveat that you have to be aware of binaural effects versus widefield stereo.

I think it's a fair point for discussion - it boils down to what constitutes great tone. For me, it's whatever conveys the music and it has as much if not more to do with the balance of a mix, as how it sounds in isolation. But. If you're a dedicated follower of a particular fashion your ideas of what 'tone' is about will be fixed within a style of arranging and production. My grandad hated all pop music because after years of classical music his ears could never adjust to the continual sound of drums being so high in the mix and that was all he heard. If you get beyond that then there are so many tones that 'work' in a given context. Personally, I love the deep, dead p sound of Deacon's Queen parts, I love Bernie Edward's 'ray driving the funk, I love Larry Graham's 2-pup 60s jazz bark, and loads more that are each totally different. Jaco's burpy tone on something like the Chicken live on Invitation is perfect for that song and that part. A bassier, less articulate sound would lose the expressive, percussive rhythm of the part. But if you asked him to play with that tone instead, he'd probably also have altered what he played accordingly to make it work a different way.

[quote name='Paul S' post='1139962' date='Feb 24 2011, 01:51 PM']I recently bought an SGC Nanyo Bass Collection and have found it exceptionally comfortable to wear and play. More so than any of my other basses. Strangely, given that the rest of the band rarely notice anything, they all commented on how cool it looks (black with green DR Neons - just proves they have eyes, I suppose... ) but also how good it sounds. I have had slight GAS for a Fender P-Lyte bass for a while now but, on paper at least, they seem to tick many of the same boxes in that they are lightweight, skinny neck, P/J pup configuration, MIJ and decent quality. But the SGC Nanyo cost me probably half what P-Lyte would have. Has anyone owned or played both to give a comparison?[/quote] I own a couple of SGC Nanyos and once borrowed a P Lyte for a period of time. The P Lyte probably wasn't a great example as it had a bad twist in the neck which affected its playability. But I certainly didn't think anything else about it made up for this deficiency compared to the SGCs! Tonally or otherwise. Depending on which Bass Collection you have though, I reckon it would benefit from better electronics. The P/Js on the SB300/310/320 haven't blown me away (though the soapbars on the SB330 are IMO good), also I personally find the pre-amp treble to be set to too high a frequency and it's a bit noisy. But the P Lyte was no better in any of these.

[quote name='tomb' post='1137995' date='Feb 23 2011, 12:49 AM']im just looking in the local auction sites and there arent many basses for sale there, ebay would eat my soul on customs when it arrives here[/quote] Problem with the budget end of the market is that while you'll find lots that play well they're really variable in quality control. You'll get a lot of different recommendations and they'll all have their merits, but for a beginner I reckon Yamaha are a very safe option. I'd have a look for a secondhand RBX374. It's not the same as any of the basses played by Flea, Claypool etc but it has IMO the best 'modern'-sounding pickups I've heard on a budget bass and is versatile enough to get you in the right ballpark. And, importantly, Yamaha build quality is usually pretty reliable so you're less likely to get a bad one!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1137850' date='Feb 22 2011, 10:30 PM']Oh No what have I let myself in for?! [/quote] You're fooked, mate!

[quote name='algmusic' post='1137936' date='Feb 22 2011, 11:35 PM']I agree on the getting two 2x10's but I'd have to disagree on the mismatch as he said he had everything on full... in a rock setting that's I've done the same thing, the the LM2 and the same 2x10, at moderate levels, it's fine at higher levels, it sounds wierd.[/quote] For sure, but I doubt it would make a noticeable difference if the speakers were rated at 250 watts each rather than 200. Comes back to the same old point that watts ratings aren't all that useful for assessing a bass cab. Cut the bass and you'll be able to bump up the volume - that's why I said it depends what you are asking it to do, and why Mr Foxen talks about shifting air for a chunky sound. Doesn't matter really, the OP's getting a 4x10 and that should do the trick!

Don't want to sound like a dick but when you say recorded direct into your desk do you mean via a DI? Because if not, the passive Fender is probably going to be impedence mismatched and sound like crap! For a proper 'fair' comparison you need a really high impedence input (more than you get on typical desk line inputs) or to use a DI - you may well have done this, I'd be interested to know because I have a J-Retro lying around that I got in a trade and have never fitted.

[quote name='algmusic' post='1136972' date='Feb 22 2011, 12:31 PM']Yep the guy in the shop is an idiot..[/quote] Hardly...the mismatch isn't very significant from the point of view of thermal handling until you really start running hard, probably with a compressor, and you should hear it coming unless you're using distortion anyway. The continuous power handling of those B&C drivers is specced at double the rms rating because music signal is typically less demanding. Whether the cab is loud enough depends what you're asking it to do, sounds like it isn't in this case. To echo what Mr Foxen has said, any thermal cut-off is going to be in the amp, not the cab (with the possible exception of a lightbulb on the tweeter). If you're running the amp hard enough to run it into thermal shutdown then you might endanger your speakers and would probably be best getting a pair of 8ohm 2x10s or a single 4x10.

Tbh the main thing I'd try for if I had the choice would a courier that doesn't use parcel force at the UK end - that's where things have got complicated for me in the past, though I've never actually lost anything! Those quotes do seem pretty high though even for full insurance.

[quote name='JTUK' post='1134016' date='Feb 20 2011, 07:54 AM']Others just want a project.[/quote] I wouldn't really count a neck shim as a mod or a project (and it's something you find on plenty of Fenders), it's just a potential part of a set-up in my book and it doesn't cost anything at all. If I WAS buying one of these as a project bass though, the main thing that would matter to me would be the acoustic tone. I know some people don't believe the wood has a significant effect, but I've yet to hear a basswood instrument that growls like ash or alder can (not necessarily always does though). At least these are made of nominally the 'right' woods, there are probably some that resonate reasonably. Also, maybe I've been lucky but I've played a fair few cheap basses and I've never had problems with tuners. The only bass thats had any issue was a Jap Fender and that was solved by just taking the offending tuner apart and putting it back together again. I actually like the cheaper Fender tuners as they're considerably lighter than the brass(?) ones so you get less neck dive! One thing that puzzles me about people's attitude to basses is their understanding of quality control; some people seem to equate it with quality. If I buy resistors with a 10% tolerance and more expensive versions at 5%, then while on average the latter will be closer to the nominal resistor value, any pair of individual resistors from either batch with an identical measured resistance will perform identically. Bass-wise I did try several Fender VMJs at one point and the QC on those was very variable. I couldn't find any that I was happy with off the shelf but have seen several other people's who were obviously luckier and those good examples have simply monstrous tone and play fantastically. Much better than the more consistent, presumably more stringent QC Classic Vibes which have a much higher rep despite sounding pretty flat/dull to my ears. I'd take a punt on a Ryder if I had the time/space for a project P - it's just such a cheap platform, it's got a couple of desirable features (wood, string-through) and I've got enough Fender parts, pots etc lying around off my jazzers that if there was anything drastically wrong I could replace without it costing extra. The only bit that I'd change for money would be the pickup, but then I'd do this on most Mex or Jap basses and my base cost would be £300 or so higher. Plus the Ryder ones do look very cool in a funny kind of way!

[quote name='JTUK' post='1133270' date='Feb 19 2011, 12:24 PM']If someone is still using one in 2-3 years time, would probably say 6 months, even [b]with original parts[/b], then maybe I'll review my cheap and nasty post. In fact, post your experiences after that time.[/quote] That's hardly fair...none of my Fenders have had all the original parts on 6 months after getting them!

[quote name='Johnston' post='1133106' date='Feb 19 2011, 09:55 AM']Saying something has to be nasty because it's cheap is just snobbery.[/quote] Not exactly, I'd say it's more people often don't understand how global commodity prices work and base their assessment of what stuff costs to make on what we pay in Europe. Apart from supply and demand the other major factor dictating these things is how many middlemen an item has gone through, rather than material costs. How many grams of metal on a p bass? Not more than 1kg I'd hope as a player, even with a high mass bridge, the scrap value will be pennies. Add a few kg of what are pretty common woods and some trivial electronics, your raw material costs are negligible! Especially where you're in an industrial country close to the production source. Factory costs are going to be far more significant, but they're really not going to be very much per instrument if it's a large operation. So, whether these SRs are any good I can't say but even with poor QC a fair number of instruments will be well within the prescribed tolerances rather than at the extremes. They might have cheaped out on metal but equally they might not - either way the factory'll be making a profit. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent example did as good a job as a CV Squier and those are perfectly playable instruments.

Btw I've not played an SR (though a friend has bought a tele that I'll have a look at at some point), just making the point that price in a global capitalist market is dictated more by supply and demand than actual production cost, since that's just negligible. We pay way more for these items than some other places and I very much doubt they'd deliberately manufacturer and sell at a loss!

[quote name='JTUK' post='1132482' date='Feb 18 2011, 05:29 PM']I am so pissed off that Fender have the gaul to charge me £800 or whatever for a complete rip-off when I can get it for £60. It's not fair, I tell you.[/quote] I lived in the Middle East for a year a couple of years ago, at a time when their markets were just getting flooded with cheap Chinese consumer goods. If you saw the retail prices on goods there, identical to the ones they sell here in the uk that seem pretty damn cheap, you'd realise just how much of a mark-up there is compared to the cost of production. It's simply astonishing how cheap stuff is to make nowadays especially in terms of raw materials. Improved QC is one of the main things you pay more for from those factories. But even with that factored in, given the measly wages they pay I bet they could churn out the equivalent of a US Fender bass for under £60 cost. It's only some cheap wood, paint and small bits of metal. A US Fender is a pretty damn simple item.

Yes, that should all be fine. It won't do any harm if you get it wrong other than wasting a bit of time, so give it a go and see if it works. If not, a photo of the cavity will help us work out what's up.

I don't know when they changed to string-through but older jazzers definitely aren't - hence all the reissues don't have it! At least the early 80s jazz basses also often had natty one-piece single ply pickguard/bell plates together with strat-style knobs. Some of them also had dots and binding, with 70s pickup spacing. It's all a bit jumbled around then.

[quote name='stevie' post='1123731' date='Feb 11 2011, 12:12 PM']The 12NDL76 is a very nice driver but the Qts (of .2) is going to kill any low end in a reflex cab.[/quote] Oh bother...I totally misread that when I looked! A pity because I really like the sound of B&Cs.