LawrenceH

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='888133' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:53 AM']The nitro finish on these makes a huge difference to the sound. I compared the one I had to an American Standard and the US bass sounded almost choked by it's poly gloss finish. Perhaps the 'holes' in the finish let more sound out or something? [/quote] The problem with that is it could be due to something other than the finish, there's quite a lot of differences specs'wise between a US standard and the RW . 'Cos otherwise the Highway 1's would sound amazing.

[quote name='Musicman20' post='887858' date='Jul 6 2010, 10:21 PM']I'm going to shelve the idea for a while. The RW is a nice bass, but I've confirmed with Fender UK and USA that it's exactly the same as the MIM 60s bass, except the appearance. The extra cash is for the relic/paint. All parts are Mexican including the pickups. That's not knocking em, but I'm going to think about it a little more.[/quote] This has been puzzling me. Why don't people rave about the Classic 60s then? I find it hard to believe the finish makes such a massive difference. Do you think they are picking the better tonewoods for the Classic 60s, or better QC, or are the Classic 60s seriously underrated?

[quote name='mrjim' post='880453' date='Jun 28 2010, 10:29 PM']I just used the cheapest from the local auto shop which was a combination of Carplan acrylic primer and colour coats. I then had to use Granville acrylic clear as they didn’t have any carplan clear in stock! Regarding paint volumes, if you read through the reranch 101 [url="http://reranch.com/101.htm"]http://reranch.com/101.htm[/url] and [url="http://reranch.com/solids.htm"]http://reranch.com/solids.htm[/url] It will explain it all in detail but it is basically one can of colour and at least 2 cans of clear (third permitting if you can afford it...) Just don’t spray a whole can in one go, I could get about 4-5 coats from one 400ml can.[/quote] That's ace, I'd seen some of that stuff but wasn't sure on quantities compared to the nitro. Thanks again, the contributions on this thread have been a great help!

[quote name='mrjim' post='880325' date='Jun 28 2010, 08:48 PM']There’s no harm in experimenting as long as you use scrap wood but I’ve found acrylic finishes to be hard enough. You can still dent/chip an acrylic finish but I can also damage super thick poly finishes as well![/quote] My 75RI is testament to that...is there any brand of acrylics you'd recommend? Otherwise my digging around on the internet has led me to specialistpaints and their 2K aerosols, which look great, but as well as being expensive the toxicity is an issue. Also does anyone have an idea of quantities, in terms of ml, that'd be required for each layer?

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='879165' date='Jun 27 2010, 08:12 PM']Drying time & Curing time are different animals. If your 75RI is already finished in Poly, then there should be no real issue with adverse reactions from any refinishing. Poly coat is catalysed, so it chemically cures in next to no time. The only way to get it off is with a sander, chisel or a [b]lot[/b] of Nitromors (preferably the lethal yellow version) & steel wool. The Rustin's brush-varnish will go on over any painted finish with no adverse effects at all, but it does need to be "keyed in" to the surface it's being applied to and it's always a good idea to key in all coats from primer up to final varnish to ensure good adhesion (almost irrespective of the paint system you're applying).[/quote] The bass I'd be refinishing is a tatty black 80s MIJ - not sure of the finish yet as I haven't received it yet, but I'm guessing either polyurethane or polyester. If it's anything like as thick as the coat on the 75RI then I'll try and get at least some of it off, just out of curiosity over whether I can hear any difference in tone! On the 75RI chipping out the dings seemed straightforward, if a little time-consuming. I understand I can put almost anything over the top of poly, but not sure about what works the other way round. Could I use an acrylic lacquer for my base colour and then coat with something like the Rustins or 2K, or will I get problems with shrinkage/adhesion/something else? From what I've read somewhere (posibly reranch?) you can't do this over a nitro base coat. I'd not previously considered brush finishes. It seems an attractive option if the finish can be made reasonably thin. Ideally I want whatever is the most durable, so this might mean 2K(?) Questions questions! I appreciate all the input so far, everyone's been very helpful thanks! When I get this project off the ground I'll post a thread in the Build Diaries section, for better or worse. I'm thinking Candy Apple Red with a matching headstock on a rosewood neck.

I''ve not heard the barefaced cabs but I'd be surprised if there was a significant difference in volume in favour of the markbass, you're talking about a 4x10 versus a 15+12 with similarly high-spec drivers. The Markbass might be voiced louder in the mids, but you can always make that up with EQ, with negligible effect on overall power draw. I think the main difference would be the tone, that's what would make me wary about the switch if you're happy with the Markbass sound.

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='879072' date='Jun 27 2010, 06:40 PM']+1 for Rustin's, and for brush-finishing. Haven't tried their two-pack, looks interesting though. I have used [url="http://www.rustins.eu/Details.asp?ProductID=833"]this stuff[/url] on a couple of necks & would do so again. Goes on like tar (even with a Purdy Sprig Elite) but flats out superbly & takes a lovely polish with a coarse cloth and some old gunky Brasso. Seems durable too, claims to be non-yellowing but far too early to tell (only been on a year). Not impressed by either Plastikote or Holt's Duplicolor clear rattle cans - not very hard wearing & prone to bruising even after a couple of months curing time. Holt's Matt Black was good though. If the existing finish isn't lifting or doing anything suspicious, why not just skim-fill it, key it up & then apply a new finish over the top? Saves doing all the prep work again. Pete.[/quote] I'm a little wary about compatibility when mixing different finishes. That's a real shame about the Plastikote, I was looking at that and thinking it might be a decent option - do you remember which you tried? Their drying times are very fast, I'm surprised it's still a problem so far down the line.

If it's a glue failure then you might expect the others to be close to doing it soon too...would it be worthwhile pre-empting this with some new glue while they're still held in place by the old stuff? I've never done a recone, I don't know how fiddly this sort of thing is. Good luck if you decide to try and fix it!

[quote name='mrjim' post='878804' date='Jun 27 2010, 01:34 PM']...talk about using nitro, the principles are the same.[/quote] Thanks, yes that's what I was wondering. Good to hear you can get a glass-like finish. Do you sand between coats or do most/all of that after the final clear coat? Regarding grainfilling/sealing, I'm hoping that I can strip leaving those layers below, but if I have to do it then I'm up for having a go. Thanks for taking the time to give such a useful reply, much appreciated!

[quote name='henry norton' post='878765' date='Jun 27 2010, 12:32 PM']The main reason nitrocellulose is so handy for spraying things like guitars is because it can be packed into an aerosol and it won't kill you if you breathe in the fumes, neither of which can be said about polyester which needs to be mixed with a catalyst and then thinned just before it's sprayed on so it can't be packed into an aerosol. The health issues aren't meant to be as bad as they used to be - you needed a proper spray booth and an air fed mask as a simple filter wasn't enough - but it's still not something you'd want to breathe in. I don't know much about polyurethane lacquer (allot of the big makers use it now, allegedly) but I've been using acrylic to finish allot of my necks recently as it's fairly tough but goes on quite thin and shows the grain up nicely but I've never tried it over a colour base. You can do a metalflake finish with just about any spray lacquer so polyurethane shouldn't be a problem but don't discount cellulose because it doesn't go on as thick as 2 pack - the reason most cellulose finishes on guitars look worn out is because they're old, not because cellulose is soft - it isn't.[/quote] Thanks for the helpful reply. So would you know where I could get the acrylic sprays from? And how much if at all acrylic yellows with age?

[quote name='Linus27' post='878565' date='Jun 27 2010, 01:34 AM']Any reason why my rig was the first to suffer? Saying that, we did hear that the keyboards were having problems also at the start. Probably cleared up after I was taken out of the loop.[/quote] Probably your rig was drawing the most power at those moments when you dug in. Plus with amps like the shuttle with Class D operation and a switch mode power supply I bet they're more prone to dofunny things when presented with fluctuating voltage than older, simper amps.

Have you also checked that it's the bass and not the amp? Ie by running the bass through something else or using a different bass through the same amp?

Hello I've had a bit of fun recently doing spot repair in the natural finish in my Jap 75RI which makes me wonder about doing a complete refinish on a different instrument. From reading around it seems that while you can get a refin done professionally, allegedly using polyurethanes/polyesters especially for instruments, the guitar specialist shops only sell nitro-based lacquers.I don't want a nitro finish, I'd like something more durable (not really into the whole relic'ed thing). So... If I wanted to use polyurethane, where if anywhere would I get it from? I'd like a reasonably thin finish that could be polished up to a high gloss, preferably in an aerosol as these are allegedly safer than the two-part stuff, plus I really don't want to have to muck around with spray guns. Finally, one finish I'd really like to try is Candy Apple Red, which I understand is a tinted red plus clear coats on top of either silver or gold metallic. Is this achievable with polyurethane? EDIT: Also, if there are any other alternatives I should consider like acrylic, how durable are these?

I don' really see what you're after to be honest, if your P basses already sound great, play great and look great. They seem like they already represent the epitome of the thing they're 'meant' to be! If you've got unquenchable desire for new gear then a better idea might be either something a bit different but similar in overall vibe, like a high-end Yamaha BB (how about that funky new number with the amazing resonant body wood? Yamaha QC is very good too) or to seek medical help for your addiction!

I have done the mallet-tap thingy on my Fender Jazz pickups that had a couple of poles that were sitting too low. SO I can say for a fact it works - at least sometimes! YMMV and all that. Personally, I'd do it - but then I am prone to doing stupid things from time to time.

Oh my lord I did not need to see that jazz, that SICKENS me

[quote name='Rumble' post='874482' date='Jun 22 2010, 03:19 PM']I don't go through the PA so really need to be able to hear what I'm playing as well as project outwards. I guess my only concern with putting the cab on the floor and tilting it back is that some of my projected sound might be lost.[/quote] There are alternative amp stands (Quiklok?) that bring the cab higher and put less extreme a tilt on - you'll lose more of the mid-bass reinforcement, but again no more than you would on an equivalent height chair. As long as the venue doesn't have a really high ceiling then I've not found this to be an issue in practice though. If I was playing a cavernous space or outdoors then I'd be more concerned.

[quote name='fatback' post='874435' date='Jun 22 2010, 02:20 PM']I asked Alex (barefaced) about those Yamaha stands, and he pointed out that you would reduce the reflections from the floor, losing maybe as much as 3db of certain low frequencies normally boosted by the floor. I shouldn't have hassled him with the question, as I later found the info is very clear here: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/stage-or-floor-coupling.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-informa...or-coupling.htm[/url] Alex suggests tilting the cab upwards using auralex blocks as wedges.[/quote] I feel this is somewhat misleading - the overall effect is going to be negligible in the 'real world' since the Yamaha-type stand doesn't raise the speaker up all that much, and it's distance from the floor rather than mechanical coupling that is the critical factor for bass reinforcement, quoting from the page you link to: 'So what happens if you put your cab on a beer crate so you can hear it better and/or to stop some boomy sounding mechanical coupling with the stage - does that mean you lose all of that 6dB of acoustic LF coupling? Fortunately the answer is no - what happens is you still get the 6dB gain but the cut-off frequency goes down, so rather than you getting the gain below about 250Hz you might only get it below 100Hz.' The vastly improved speaker angle in relation to your ear is going to make far more of a positive difference to audibility in the mid-range up than the loss in a relatively narrow bandwidth caused by using the stand. In actual fact those upper bass frequencies are often the ones that are most difficult to tame in smaller spaces, so in a lot of places a modest loss there will if anything tighten up the bottom end. If the OP likes the sound he gets from putting his cab on a chair then it will not be an issue - he'll be losing at least as much doing it that way or more if the chair's higher. I'd really suggest trying the stand or a similar DIY fix temporarily first, since it's by far the cheapest (possibly free) option and involves negligible extra gear to cart around. Just make sure with a 2x10 that the centre of gravity is going to be ok with whatever design you go with. If it's a micro amp the velcro option should be fine, or you could bung a rubberised wedge under the head to bring it back to level, or just run the head to one side!

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='874120' date='Jun 22 2010, 08:47 AM']Also, have a look at the 75RI models, whether used Japanese ones or new American. They seem to have the smoothest sounding pickups & 70's pickup spacing gives you that little extra bite.[/quote] The Japanese 75s don't have 70s pickup spacing - which actually makes them an option if you like the 70s look but less the tone. As an aside I now have a Classic 70s and a maple/ash Jap 75, with an 80s Jap standard on the way. At some point I'll be swapping components around to see for myself what factors influence what aspects of the sounds of these instruments. I am starting to wonder if the fret size and profile is actually quite important to what I'm after sound-wise.

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='873755' date='Jun 21 2010, 07:01 PM']Velcro. Yes, honestly. I've seen this done and it works.[/quote] This