sandy_r

Very gracious! Everybody has experience of something, and we could all learn new stuff all the time 👍

Aye to all that Posting here is a fine line between keeping it real but understandable for folks without a tech background, asking for some direction/guidance/ok etc, and knowing that someone somewhere is going to pickup on the technicalities without regard for the background of the OP Very often it seems that pronouncements are made, to be ignored at our peril (so it sounds), without explaining why things may be the way they are I used the term True RMS to try and avoid unecessary sidetracks about manufacturer's flights of fancy ...i knew it was a case of damned if i do, etc I feel sorry for BCers like the OP who just want a clear, honest and usable answer and they get their thread subjected to a maelström of argument/discussion when people want to turn the OP into a p*$$*ng contest or an opportunity to revisit their pet subject Joy ☺

[not needed on journey]

Probably more used to add 'large venue' (ie. Concert Hall) ambience to 'dry' recording of the instrument - could sometimes be useful in adding that ambience in smaller live settings. I'm experimenting with smaller amounts of reverb for my 'EUB-alike' setup, to add some 'body' sound to what is essentially a solid stick of wood. HTH

@alexa3020 i hope that's a family-sized tub of popcorn you've got there on the sofa! ☺ Interesting diversion there, reminded me of a Talking Heads song with a road backdrop To clarify then, my post from 4 days back (03:11 Thurs) still stands - you're good to go with your 200W speaker and a 'clean' signal (ie. derate that amp power for 'grit', heavy compression, or indication of clipping)

Bill, welcome to the OP: 800W Amp - 200W speaker (i guess you missed that, no worries) So - possibility of overdriven speaker - 600W excess drive over rating - severe clipping - in most other universes, effectively a square wave Not a Robert 'Strawman' Moog in sight

No need to apologise - someone's got to do it 😉

A Square wave is equivalent to a single sinewave of the same fundamental frequency, plus the sum of all the odd-harmonic frequencies; The odd-harmonics, needed to create a square wave, decrease in power by 6dB an octave; So the woofer passband is decreasing 3dB/octave more slowly than that needed to create a square wave (ie. woofer passband is a non-issue); An amp driven increasingly into clipping converges towards a square wave type output at the same peak voltage of its max 'clean' (sine type) voltage; A Square wave will deliver twice the power, Into the same load, as a sine wave of the same peak voltage ie. a 100W True RMS amp, clipping badly,can apply up to 200W (True RMS) into its usual load - hence advice to use speakers with higher power rating than the amp Is this latest 'objection' supposed to divert attention from 'Why did they** choose the value: 1/8'? (**The regulatory body)

...looks like a bit of shielding is peeling away from the control cavity, Vol pot end - you might want to confirm the adhesion and continuity throughout? Another couple of things to confirm (obscured in photo) - is the pickup wired to Vol pot as per standard MM wiring? I've seen pickup shown with Black ('hot' wire) to Vol pot outer lug, Green to Ground (and Shield, if present), and Red + White as the series connection. Vol pot wiper (middle) lug on to tone (If pickup 'hot' wire is connected to Vol pot middle lug then it could adversely load the pup with pot rotation less than full on, losing some treble response) HTH

I may agree or disagree with a lot of people about a whole lot of topics, but if you read my post above carefully you will see that your subsequent calculation of "less than 200W' looks vaguely similar to my earlier figure of "less than 200W" So on what are we supposed to differ? Certainly not the fact that the power rating is worded as "1/8 max. Power" (because it was me who posted the photo of it) A careful read of my later post would show that i said that you are welcome to your own opinion of why the regulating body chose the level they did: ie. 1/8 When i see strawman arguments and appeals to authority appear in discussions then i know that subsequent discussion is going to be fruitless

It's an upper limit to the total clean conversion of Input Power into a load - if you connected, say, a 4 ohm non-inductive resistor at the amp output and had a suitably math-capable 'scope monitoring the output voltage, then the scope should show that the amp can achieve an undistorted ouput signal at its max RMS rating indefinitely, regardless of how the EQ profile is set (N.B. the gain or volume may need to be adjusted after changes to the EQ to restore an undistorted max RMS value) [Edit] so to clarify for your 'everything at max' - no, the amp may be capable of overdriving the output (ie. into distortion) with everything at max - in that case you could have all the EQ at max, have to reduce either Vol or Gain appropriately, but still achieve the max RMS rated output

Er, yes - the difference between a basic Sinewave and Square IS the harmonics - A Woofer can easily reproduce at least the 5th harmonic (no Strawman Inc. Tweeter needed 😉) So, the power density of the signal to the woofer IS affected (as by clipping) I think you are Myth taken - it's ok, it's just humour (look it up)

Could the "too big" msgs be due to having exceeded your total upload limit? ...just an idea... Sorry to hear of 4-legged friend health issues - hope recent op has good outcome!

No argument about the masking issues of distortion-type effects (in fact, someone made that point a few posts earlier ...hey -you could look it up! 😉) Amps overdriving the speakers into clipping (presenting as distortion) is an indication that the speakers will suffer thermal damage if exposed to continued power in excess of their rated power handling If guitarists aren't swapping their drivers out every set, then either that is a strawman argument, or the guitarists are 'cleantone'-loving gentle souls, or just maybe ...sheesh... their speakers are suitably over rated for their amps ...can we all get back on topic to blowing up the speaker @HoP now?

Thanks, yes i can makeout the white inner at the Jack and nearest tone pot now - looks a bit tight (being polite!) at the next (non-func.) tone pot - lug wiring at the Vol pot pretty much obscured by the pup cable Agree with replacing 1 tone position with a selector switch (and rotary should keep the form factor) Cheers

hi, maybe it's just my 70+yr old eyesight, but can you tell us how many connections there are to the Jack? I only see 1 - a blue wire. And i don't seem to see any other wire that could be ground, apart from a possible bridge ground to a tone pot case It's also not clear (to me) what is going on with the pickup wires to the vol pot (the white wire appears to be strapped back into the insulation - is that where the 2 pickup halves are connected in series? Can't see a 4th wire) Any chance of clearer/closer photos of the pots & Jack? (The dark background of the control plate isn't helping) With what i'm seeing (admittedly dodgy eyesight!)) I'm surprised you're hearing anything at all from the bass! 😉

Yes, It's a fact - as the signal waveform alters from basically Sinewave form (ie. 'Clean') and heads towards Squarewave form (ie.the sum of the fundamental tone plus all the odd-harmonics) the average power content of the signal can nearly double - hence why you should be careful not to overdrive the speaker when using effects like distortion, octavers ...or just by driving the amp into clipping (again, it starts to increase the average output power content) It's a good idea to over rate speaker power compared with the amp - and make that at least double if you want to use effects which take the signal out of the 'clean' zone

Well, we'll obviously have to agree to differ on that then - interestingly we don't disagree on the bottom line that the amp can be used carefully (ie. "less than 200W.") with that speaker, as long as the system is operated below clipping You are obviously very welcome to have your own opinion on why the guideline value of "1/8 max. Power" (which i showed in a photoclip) was chosen by the regulating bodies to be at that level Have a nice day 😊

+1 for insulating tape, where suitable - also heatshrink can give good results over soldered wire-to-wire and wire-to-lug connectiins:- .[..apologies about image sizes - don't have the usual image editing on this device]

...agreed - even further along the 'things which are possible but not always practical' scale

...such a lightweight, Richard! 😉 Oops - excuse me, greetings Rusty! - good luck with the cab builds ...and the 'committee' approval

Some things are possible but they're not practical To give you some idea of what's involved, here are some views of the PCB & connectors Effects loops are often post-EQ (but would be pre-EQ in a bass --> pedalboard --> amp type setup) To insert 2x post-EQ FX loops (1 for 'clean' channel, 1 for 'grit') in the Bass Butler, the most direct way would be to look near the Amp o/p path: both channels end with a Volume control (and may not need buffering at this point), and they are pre cab-sim The 'grit' Vol pot's three connections are top-right in this crop, and the 'clean' Vol pot's 3 connections are bottom-left (helpfully obscured by a capacitor!). Depending on how the control pot is designed into the circuit, you'll probably need to use the Max-level and wiper solder connection of each pot for the Loop Send & Return connections. In this case, for the 'grit' pot, the max-level would be the right-hand of the 3. For the 'clean' pot, the order is swapped L-to-R IF the pot is designed in with the wiper (middle) as output (a fairly common 'Volume Control' type config) that would be the track to break into for the Return connection (the Send connection just being soldered to the max connection of the pot). If the wiper track leads to a capacitor, then the cap can be removed to make the break (and an equivalent replacement soldered inline with the new Return wire), if not, that track will need to be cut (carefully and completely!) Otherwise, you would need to apply the steps in the previous para, swapping Send/Return references to the max and wiper connections of the pot How can you tell which applies? If you were into Electronics, you'd probably check signal levels on the 2 pots with a scope or other test equipment. No test equipment? ...try that earlier para first - if you can plug an FX into your new Loop and it works, stop work immediately, go down the pub and offer up prayers to St Kirchhoff! If it doesn't work, swap the Send & Return wires at the pot, go down the pub, etc. If it still doesn't work ...then you've learnt why some people design & maintain Tech, whilst others just buy and use it 😉 That was the easy bit Ok - 2 FX Send/Return Loops... you either need 4x mono jack sockets, or 2x stereo/TRS sockets. Orange have sized the case to fit fairly compactly round the PCB, leaving space for connectors on the rear side, below the board (from the User/Operational PoV). Looking at the existing connector space, an extra 4 mono jack sockets looks like a no-go - 2 extra TRS jacks? Your call When you've decided where you can fit the Jacks (and still make the mod not look like a Kluge), how easy it going to be to drill the case (after you've removed all the existing electronics - PCB+controls & connectors, to avoid contamination by swarf)? Do you have the necessary tools, or will you have to buy some in? If it doesn't work out - or sound - as you'd hoped, have you just decimated the resale value of the Bass Butler? TL; DR ? Enjoy using your Bass Butler (while you wait for v2 with the extra 2 FX Loops)

+1 for adaptor, as mentioned above. An adaptor provides the nearest, cheapest & most flexible X->Y solution:-

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