Conan

So there appears to be a wide range of different "definitions" of heft. So is it any wonder that there is little agreement on which gear is capable of delivering it?

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1465374827' post='3067585'] Hearing Elusive Frequencies Thoroughly [/quote] Good one!

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1465371120' post='3067545'] That's the thing - when I think of 'heft'. I'm not thinking about bass. It's a solid, low-mid backbone. It's all so confusing :-) [/quote] I know... When we finally play together on the same bill we can judge each other's interpretation of the word and whether either of us have "it"!

Hell Eventually Freezes, Tone-wise. I have no idea what it actually is, but my interpretation of it is encapsulated in the bass tone that Michael Anthony used to get on Van Halen recordings. Anyway, I don't actually need (or want) it in my current band. I use a fairly bass-light (but mid-rich) tone, and it fits very well with the sonic landscape of that band. In a different band, I would probably want a different tone... I could certainly get more bass ("Thump"? "Heft"? "Oomph"?) from my amp and cabs if I wanted to, but it would just mess up the clean and clear sound that I strive for currently. Maybe I have heft on tap? Sorry - I don't actually have much to add to this discussion!

I found it a bit mixed. Yes, it was great to see a programme giving some publicity to some bands, and in a wider sense to the local music scene as a whole - but were those five bands [i][b]really[/b][/i] the best that they found in the whole of Scotland, Norn Iron and Wales? How were the bands selected? How did they bring themselves to the attention of the programme makers? It was clearly filmed in the winter, but I don't recall hearing anything about it at that time... At the end of the day, can there ever be a "best" at anything related to music? It's all so subjective after all. I also picked out the two winning bands, but it wasn't difficult as they were head and shoulders above the others. Rhod Gilbert was OK when he was just being himself, but his more scripted lines were cringeworthily awful (IMO). Midge Ure is always good value (although his story about Concorde and learning the Thin Lizzy set is getting a bit dull now! ). So who won the National "Title" then? Some of you who were involved must know...

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1464575290' post='3060428'] Everything on full, then EQ from your amp. Whats the point in making it sound like a P Bass. ? [/quote] Because sometimes you only want/need that P bass sound for one song and changing basses mid-set is a pain in the @rse?

Usually everything on full, but for some songs where I want a P bass sound but can't be @rsed changing basses I have the neck on full and bridge fully off. Yes, there is a drop in perceived volume with both pickups on full (due to comb-filtering or some such thing IIRC) but I just like that tone best!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1464350554' post='3058719'] I doubt the hundreds of bands I see live really care...they just enjoy the music. The PA does most of the work anyway. [/quote] Maybe - but for those of us who play smaller venues (with only vocals through the PA) and rely on backline, the sound of the rig is important. If I can hear myself properly and like the sound I hear, I tend to play better and enjoy the performance more. Audiences feed off that and the whole gig is better. The bands that get to the point where we are paying to see them tour have probably been through that stage too but have moved on to bigger (but not necessarily better) things. Their sound is totally at the mercy of the(ir) sound man... All IMO of course

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1464350926' post='3058728'] This is where the divide comes. Those that use cabs for strictly monitoring. And those that use it for both monitoring and being heard front of house. In reality, most people won't care as long as a cab is light. Others mistake something to be a great sounding cab based on the fact they can lift it easily. Some think a great sounding cab is something that they can hear on stage regardless of what it sounds like front of house. An expensive cab equals a great sounding cab, naturally :-p [/quote] To be fair, I can see where you are coming from with some of those comments. There is certainly a degree of sycophantism running through the amps and cabs area of this site. Funnily enough it is nowhere near as pronounced with amps (apart from the Class D vs "Heft" argument) or with bass guitars. On the other side though, are those of us who have used dozens of different amps, cabs and basses and have arrived at their current set-up based on what they like the sound of. Yes, the weight of my rig is a factor, but it is not the only factor. I have used heavy cabs that I like, and lightweight cabs that I don't like so much. Same goes for amp heads. Some rigs just don't work in certain situations or in certain bands. There are so many variables... Nowt wrong with a bit of healthy argument sometimes...

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1464348343' post='3058671']I don't have to look into my amps, cables, basses, setups, technique.... if I was to hear a tone I don't like coming from a cab... [/quote] What would be the cause then, in your opinion? I'm genuinely interested. There is always a cause for a subjectively unpleasant tone, unless it can be put down to the room itself.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1464347802' post='3058662'] Aww I love a bit of fishing. 3 bites in one go. [/quote] You must be very proud.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1464343985' post='3058597'] Stupid amounts of power, stage positioning, strings, bass setup, how you play your bass... I don't think I could do with the extra stress of gigging one. [/quote] Cool. Leave it to those of us that can cope with such things then

This - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/282419-ebs-reidmar-250/ Or. perhaps, this - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/285123-sadowsky-sa200-all-tube-bass-amp-rare/

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464024456' post='3055858'] This pic from Carol Kaye's playing tips: [/quote] And it has the added advantage of looking great too!

[quote name='ThirteenDevils' timestamp='1463986915' post='3055455'] Ozric Tentacles [/quote] Oh yes!

More prog metal maybe, but have a listen to these guys - [url="http://deeexpus.co.uk/"]http://deeexpus.co.uk/[/url] - their current and previous bass players are both members on here. I've had a number of attempts over the years at getting prog bands going. Not only do some of the musicians tend to be on the "challenging" side ( ) but even if you get as far as putting a set together very few venues are interested, and if you do get a gig nobody comes to see you! One of the last prog gigs I saw locally to me (Newcastle upon Tyne) was Pendragon*, supported by DeeExpus (see above). Both bands were utterly outstanding, but there was an audience of about 30 people, including both bands are their "entourages"! My advice if you want to play prog? Relocate to the continent. Poland, Holland, Germany, even ex USSR states. They love their prog over there! * BTW, Pendragon hail from the West Country, or at least main songwriter/singer/guitarist Nick Barratt comes from Stroud...

[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1463735210' post='3053665'] I'd certainly like to test it out. Matt [/quote] Me too!

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1463557990' post='3052213'] I used to have a set of those in the 112 variety, found them a little bass shy for my liking. The Rumbles kill them for tone imo. [/quote] It was the amp I was referring to...

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1463657499' post='3053124']To answer your question, I think your TE cab will be the limiting factor if paired with the BB2. It's liable to reach it's limits before the BB2 does.[/quote] Agreed.