Conan

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1403862798' post='2487164']And I think somebody kicked off a controversial subject, with their own agenda.[/quote] [quote name='Jono Bolton' timestamp='1403864485' post='2487195']Wasn't the thread started by Discreet, who has a Limelight bass of his own? What's his agenda then?[/quote] [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1403865858' post='2487212']That post is in reference to the other thread that led to this one.[/quote] [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403866843' post='2487227']This thread was started by me to make an announcement about a decision that was made following a previous thread. [/quote] This has all got very complicated. So to summarise... Discreet had an NBD thread relating to his new Limelight bass. WoT had a similar thread. I made a few comments on WoT's thread which, in hindsight, were not in the appropriate place. I acted on advice given, and started another thread which underwent a couple of title changes due to the fact that I was not 100% sure what the actual subject matter was! Many posts were made in that thread, and as a result of it (seemingly) the guy who makes Limelight basses made a decision about the branding of his basses. That was brought to our attention by Discreet in [b][i]this[/i][/b] thread. Despite Karlfer's accusation, I did [b][i]not[/i][/b] have (and [i][b]do[/b][/i] not have) an "agenda". I stated this clearly in the thread that [b][i]I[/i][/b] started. But some people do not read all of a thread before contributing. And to think that [i][b]I[/b][/i] was accused of being "easily offended"!!

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1403802268' post='2486646'] Well done to the easily offended... [/quote] Oh per-lease! Would all of you nay-sayers rather that the guy was hit by a massive legal bill when Fender get round to checking him out? And what will have led them to him will be all the NBD threads talking about what a wonderful "Fender" they have just sourced for £800. Don't think it wouldn't happen, because it would. I think common sense has prevailed. Mark's response shows that he is a sensible guy, and his basses are clearly of high quality and they will sell because of that. Whether they are branded as Fender, Limelight or "Mark Bass" is immaterial.... Oh, er... hang on...

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1403791637' post='2486445'] Jazz Bass : Candy Green, Black Plate, Candy Green painted neck, matching headstock, gloss maple board with black blocks and binding, Black Hardware please [/quote] I seem to remember from one of the other threads that there might be a problem with maple necks (or at least maple boards!)... but presumably everything else on your list should be possible! But why would you want a [i][b]painted [/b][/i]neck?

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1403790679' post='2486434'] Why is it that certain topics are so utterly predictably going to turn into train wrecks? [/quote] I think this one is still quite reasonable... It certainly isn't a train-wreck so far, is it? If people can try to avoid being too personal, I don't see why it should disintegrate into the aforementioned locomotive accident.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1403789972' post='2486419'] If people assumed it was a Fender that's cool, but if anyone asked I'd say it was a Limelight. [/quote] I think that is the crux of the confusion (for some people).

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1403786811' post='2486347'] Your views on it are objective and interesting :-) [/quote]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1403786446' post='2486337'] Having just flicked through the fender custom colour chart, maybe maize yellow.... [/quote] Really?!?! They do a colour called maize yellow??? That's a bit corny...

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1403786242' post='2486333'] I guess an unreliced one would be even cheaper? Surf Green fretless with a matching headstock and I'm in.... [/quote] Oh yes indeed!! [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1403786322' post='2486335'] Like I said, a general discussion is something is be really interested in. I'd find it interesting to read peoples views but this has turned into a discussion about marks business not the general issue of copyright/relic instruments... [/quote] Hmmmm. Yes, I guess it has in a way. But I think the THREE NBD threads relating to his basses in the last few days has also contributed to that... It's a difficult one. I can see that he is doing a great job in a really cool niche of the market, but there is just something that doesn't quite sit right for me. Maybe I am not phrasing it very well though

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1403785824' post='2486319'] I'd quite like one to be honest... Not a reliced one, but a jazz style bass in my choice of colour for a reasonable price is very appealing. I would like a limelight logo on the headstock though, if it's available as an option? [/quote] Yes! That is what I have been trying (unsuccessfully it seems) to say all along...

I see no witch hunt... We are discussing the issues around a manufacturer making copies/tributes/facsimiles... (call them what you will) of a well known range of basses. Isn't that what bass guitar forums are for? However, in hindsight I can see how the thread title may be seen as provocative. I will change it for that reason.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403785303' post='2486306'] When have I suggested people stop talking about this? Even when it started to take over my NBD thread I let it go. I simply pointed out that it's a shame the usual tired argument seems to be overshadowing what's on offer, and I suppose extended discussion like this could possibly lead to it being withdrawn, which IMO would be a bit of a head-shaker and a win for no-one. [/quote] Yeah, sorry about your thread - I was at least partially responsible for the OT content... A few people (including your good self) have referred to the discussion being "old", "dull", "repetitive", "done-to-death" and such like. True, that's not the same as suggesting that people stop talking about it; but it does kind of discourage it Surely if bringing these basses to a wider audience could potentially cause the manufacturer problems (which NBD threads must also do?) then there must be a problem there? I don't want these basses withdrawn. I actually want one myself - but as other posts have indicated, there are enough people on here who think that it is slightly dodgy that maybe Mark should take note of that before he gets a nasty letter from Fender's legal department. Of course, if he has checked it all out and they are fine with it... my order will probably be going in soon! This is getting silly. I can see people falling out over this, and it really isn't worth it!

[quote name='Mattmit' timestamp='1403776679' post='2486148'] His pickups are really good too. [/quote] Does he make his own? If not, anyone know what he uses? Or maybe this can be specced by the buyer too?

Forgot about this one! We are supporting Archie Brown and the Young Bucks at the outdoor Amphitheatre this evening. We are due on around 7pm - so a nice early finish! Free admission too...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403780999' post='2486214'] But, I do think it's a shame that rather than discussing an exciting new-ish supplier of very nice basses for reasonable money, so much of the conversation has focussed on recycling the bleedin' obvious. Especially as no money has changed hands on the understanding that these are anything other than Limelight basses. [/quote] This post is not aimed at any particular perosn, but I think it is interesting that the people who seem to be getting a bit flustered by this ("old and dull") discussion are the ones who either own or have expressed an interest in owning one of Marks' instruments. Why would that be? If you own one and are happy with it, then that's cool - but why should that stop others discussing what they see as a potential issue and something that they feel uneasy about? My feet are in both camps. I think they look great (especially the ones with the more subtle relicking) and am happy to believe the reviews that state that they feel great, play well and sound good. I would be happy to own one (although I couldn't afford one at the moment). I really like the idea that you can basically spec your own "Fender" - choosing the colour in particular has great appeal to me as I tend to prefer the custom colours to the widely available ones... The relicking is something I am less enarmoured of - but I think some of the Limelight basses have been a bit overdone in that respect! I'd love to try one - but to be fair, at their prices it is probably worth a punt (although I am not sure what the re-sale values would be like...). I think this thread would be improved if people stopped taking things so personally. We are discussing a manufacturer of bass guitars. If you have met him and think he is a nice guy - great, but that has no real bearing on this discussion IMO.

Best wishes mate If you need to sell your sanders and routers, I'm sure there will be plenty of interested potential buyers on here!

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1403720810' post='2485661'] One thing I'm slowly figuring out is that I don't enjoy Herbie's tone too much. There seems to be a point where you use flats and a foam mute and you somehow make the pitch of the note change as you play it. I'm listening to "Banner Man" by Blue Mink[/quote] I wasn't familiar with that track, but I've just listened to it and I LOVE Herbie's tone on it! Funny how subjective our ears are isn't it! To be fair, there are other instruments down there with the bass - certainly a tuba or some such brass instrument... there could be some sort of cancellation/reinforcement going on.... just a thought.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1403735847' post='2485884'] I understand that Fender did threaten to take action against Bill Nash, forcing him to change his operations and only use Fender decals on 'bitsa' basses that he puts together from genuine Fender parts! [/quote] Maybe one way around it would be for Mark to ship the basses without decals, encouraging customers to source their own? Not sure about the headstocks though...

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1403732297' post='2485836'] For a company like Fender who have designed an instrument that can be mixed and matched easily (bolt on necks which can be switched around, easily changeable hardware etc) they are surprisingly limited in the options they offer to customers, hence this niche that Mark has exploited. I think the way Limelight works shows us that that some of us want the flexibility to customise aspects of our instrument without having to go to the Fender Custom Shop (which still has too many restrictions for some of us!). [/quote] Spot on! That is exactly how I feel too. I think it will only be a matter of time before Mark's operation appears on Fender's radar. After all, this forum has quite a significant readership in the US and some of those guys are very nationalistic... In their eyes, a small UK builder "ripping off" their iconic US brand would be unforgivable. It is an interesting situation!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403706792' post='2485486'] it just [i]looks [/i]like somebody else's gunge...[size=4] [/size] [/quote] Eeew! What do they actually use? Do they buy "distressed" hardware from old basses? Or do they buy new ones and carry out some form of aging process on them?? I'm intrigued!

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1403702539' post='2485448'] What I [b]completely[/b] don't get is the metalwork relicing - that corrosion's minging, and it does nothing for the feel or sound, it's purely for the look, which doesn't equate in my head. [/quote] I have to agree. A bit of age-appropriate corrosion is cool, but some of the others look revolting! I mean, who actually wants rusty pole pieces on the pickups and somebody else's gunge on the bridge and tuners??

[quote name='NJE' timestamp='1403699979' post='2485414'] Some people would say, well just get an old bass, but I am inherently suspicious and would worry that a vintage instrument would have problems, [/quote] I'm with you on that one! Even if I could afford a YOB (1966) Jazz, I would be totally paranoid about being ripped off with something that was not what it seemed. [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1403700773' post='2485424']it's the sheer choice/options available. I'd like a Fiesta Red/Tort/light relic/rosewood/P neck bass. If I go Fender, it's a Pino, and its money I don't want to invest. Fender make great basses but £3000 or whatever it is for a VERY basic design is just not my thing, (unless I suddenly throw caution to the wind). [/quote] Very good points! [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403701895' post='2485443'] Same here - if I wanted a genuine year-of-birth Fender Jazz it would need to be a 1960 stacker. I specced my Limelight Jazz to be as close to the 'real thing' as practically possible and Mark has done a brilliant job for around a twentieth of the price Edit: I've just taken delivery of mine and played it for the first time minutes ago and it feels very familiar and lived-in already... [/quote] Stunning it is too!

Absolutely fecking gorgeous!!

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1403697083' post='2485372'] You forgot:[list] [*]People who want a bass in that particular colour scheme, with that particular spec, and don't really go for shiny instruments. [/list] And:[list] [*]People who've played one, and bought it 'cos it was nice. [/list] I'd fall into the latter category, BTW. [/quote] Absolutely! Both perfectly good reasons of course My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive - just kind of thinking out loud.

Following on from the couple of NBD (or maybe NBPTBOBD* would be more accurate!) threads relating to a certain manufacturer's basses, I thought I would open a new thread to see what people think about the concept. This is in no way an attempt to stir things up! I think it is an interesting subject but it doesn't belong in a thread about a particular person's new bass. First of all, and to set the record straight, I have no beef with Limelight guitars. I have looked at a number of them on their website and some of them are beautiful looking instruments. A bit heavily relicked for [i][b]my[/b][/i] taste, but whatever floats your boat! The reviews that are available so far indicate that these are very well-made basses that sound and feel like the real vintage Fenders upon which they are based - but are available at very competitive prices (around £800 from what I have seen on the website). But what is the target market?[list] [*]People who would love a vintage Fender but can't afford one or can't justify the expense? [*]People who want [b][i]others[/i][/b] to think that they [i][b]can[/b][/i] afford a vintage Fender? [*]People who own a vintage Fender (or more than one) but would rather not gig them in public due to concerns about damage or theft? [/list] I think the thing that makes me slightly uncomfortable is the fact that they have Fender decals on the headstock. Yes, they also have the maker's name written on the back in marker; and they won't have the genuine date stamps in various places - but would they have the same appeal if they lacked the iconic Fender logo? I really don't have an axe to grind here, and am genuinely interested in what people think. Oh, and I would quite like one myself - either a Burgundy Mist or Surf Green Jazz with matching headstock in light relic. The playability of a pre-CBS Fender for the price of a MIM Geddy Lee? You'd be daft not to! *[size=2][i]New bass pretending to be old bass[/i][/size]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1403690402' post='2485258'] I think the point you're missing is that a New Bass Day thread for a specific member's bass isn't the place for this (recycled and dull) 'discussion'. Unless you've come here with the intention of trying to goad people into an argument? It's just detracted away from the discussion about Michael's lovely new bass :-) [/quote] Oh right. Fair enough. I don't find it dull, even if it has been discussed before (but then again, what hasn't? ). No intention on my part of starting an argument. You don't know me very well if you even suggest that! Your tone is far more "argumentative" than mine! Just genuinely interested in these instruments and why people would buy them - myself included! And yes, Michael's bass is indeed lovely. I never said it wasn't! Some people are so touchy! But OK, I will keep my opinions on this to myself