ARGH

Ive changed my mind..Im better than you..you suck..and that overprice plank you play is a waste of sawdust!

These guys are cool,If you have transport,are reliable...have the gear,and the drive....they practice in Woking [url="http://www.myspace.com/sporebreather"]http://www.myspace.com/sporebreather[/url] killer guys,they have a future!

I get paid,thats all I need to know.......my equipment works,and I play the right notes that make your butt move...I am better than some,not as good as others,but They aint me,and Im glad I aint them.

[quote name='Protium' post='364404' date='Dec 27 2008, 07:23 PM']Everyone sounds the same yet you want MORE people to play P-basses? [/quote] Glad you pointed that out...The riff rules..The METAL riff is king,Guitars come 1st..they just do,good bass or good playing...right now...does not....P's have more than one sound,P's are used on records.Because they work. Considering we have had 4 pages of Thrash Bass discussion,some of it regarding good tone,and most of it essentially is a question of image (Rob T playing a P bass shock horror)...some of us dont know our History,and either cant tell who plays on what,or what is being used,and worse...some have not heard of Tutonic Thrash (a conveniance of the modern media in the low quality Thrash revival..)....or the origins of some very very key players. The growling tones of Geezer Butler,or Steve Cutler,or or or or etc...Even the 1st Death lp has a P on it. People throw about Steve D's name,but I bet nobodys actually GOT a Sadus lp,... ------------------------------------ I dont just want dooooom,I want the nasty,the dark,the black all back...its a tad Spinal Tap,but Im not scared by what I hear,and I get a little cynical when Melodic Death metal bands dont tip the hat to At The Gates,Some kids think Dimmu Borgir began Black metal,and when no-one can hear the Discharge riffs and the Mercyful fate melody in Thrash (Fade to black IS a rewrite of Melissa)......A big history lesson is needed,and when its over,clear the decks and start again....If you want to hear a good tune played by teenagers get Bathory's 1st lp,Get 'In the sign of Evil' by Sodom,'Morbid Tales' by Celtic Frost. There alot of playing people have forgotten about,and its never written about in Kerrrang or MH or Terrorizer or Zero tolerance,because Noone's paying the journo's to write about it.....its not just about ripping your denim jacket,or dying your hair,its about the sheer feeling of the music you are creating as a living breathing creature,bottom line all the crossover of styles has weakend Metal into a safe,MTV SUb goth,EMO,melodic mass of yuk and eyeliner. I remember churches burning,riots,f***ing madness....the actions were sad as f***,but god the music was good and at least those players ment it!!!! To repeat myself....Its a little bit more than plugging japcrap into a digi plastic amp modeling system,and turning a few knobs,its a little bit more than simple downtuning and RAAAAAAGGGHHHing into a mic,its a hell of a lot more than hoodies and the dancing...and then being picked up by mum in the Volvo. It HAS always been about the riff,the parent offending,tool of evil...THE RIFF. And if you cant dig that flat 5th and understand all its spawned....then you are utterly lost...all the gear in the world cant save you,no matter how expensive it is.... Its why Slayer still kill live,even though they have not made a decent lp since 91.

Man..anyone got any popcorn...Ive run out!

[quote name='Josh' post='364266' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:35 PM']And if anything, Ryans tone on L.D. 50 is very dark compared to the later releases. I guess Argh is saying that nowadays it's easy to look back and think it was easy to cut through, whereas back then it was more of an ordeal. Yet I don't actually recall saying that more distorion = More Metal. I'm not a fan of Black Sabbath and have always found their earlier stuff weak as in terms of modern day Metal, but I guess it's a case of "You weren't there so your never going to understand Kid".[/quote] No,its a simple case of you have no idea,but you can understand....the 1st 3 notes of 'Black Sabbath',the intro to 'Under the Sun',the pulse of 'Heaven and Hell'..the Main riff of 'Mob Rules'.....If you cant hear the sheer thunder and horror then you stand no chance if someone plays you any Possessed or Autopsy..or Sodom lps.Its was never easy,the equipment was harder to work with,and the communication was different between groups of players..its why/how a band sounds so different from one and another,now its just clones...you can get the equipment off the peg,turn it up,and in a bedroom its sounds awesome,but everyone ends up sounding the same....thats why theres nothing jaw dropping anymore....everythings route 1. The wonder of the internet has caused the death of working it out for yourself.....I recall Max Cavelera's story of having a tape with Hellhammer's Apocalyptic Raids on one side and Hear Nothing...by Discharge on the other..both bands looked totally different,but to Max they were the same thing......THEY were the heaviest things Max could find,if he wanted to go heavier,he'd have to find a way to do it his own self. I admire the 'Nu' lot....But theres nothing aggressive,or bleak,or dark,or horrid about them......its commercial,droptuned,guitar based music for the 00s,that sells but dosent scare. Scott Ian hit the nail on the head by saying 10 years back that "This is the first generation that WONT push the boundaries of extremity in music" Studios didnt have a clue how to record this stuff in the ages gone by,thats why whole genres hung around with one producer and one sound,Flemming was good at guitar sounds,at Bass he stank....The best guys in extreme metal at the time was ,in the USA Casey McMackin,and Randy Burns..later on Scott Burns..and in Europe it was Harris Johns in Hansa studios.and in the early days Horst Muller (Caet studios)....In the UK no one had a clue,not until 89/90..maybe 92,did we start having decent studio sounds...DeathMetal had sounds from country to country Basically bands were either stuck with what they had to deal with,or they had a fight...One thing began to kill music off though,sounds were coming not from Bands but equipment...Whole sounds....genre staples were based from a pedal,the technique to make a riff heavy,had started to die off,now anyone can get a guitar,tune it down and go 'UUUUURRRGGGHHH' and complain about their school/parents/girlfriend..its saturated,its got cold,and its got crap....bad bad bad. Its going to have to go back to the start......and its going to have to take a really big set of balls to make anything new,thats why I think the next big thing isnt going to come from the west.

Can I be even more lazy and say go download the tunes and use your ears like the way us over 30s had to! Its called ear training!!!!

Look,you lot are making me feel old here...... If you want to hear Good Bass on Thrash.....try 'Persecution Mania' lp by Sodom or pretty much anything by Coroner. [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU[/url] [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&...feature=related[/url]

[quote name='Josh' post='363988' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:47 PM']Tony choy?[/quote] Roger Patterson....

[quote name='Josh' post='363983' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:41 PM']Kreator?[/quote] you put a question mark on that

You always forget the Germans..even the Euro scene,when discussing the merits of Thrash...and musicality.

Go on...list

[quote name='xgsjx' post='363639' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:59 PM']My girlfriend got me a moogerfooger bass murf. Looking forward to getting home to try it out![/quote] Treasure that,they are rare I believe...

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363908' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:41 PM']Let's face it, 95% of the time in metal you can't hear any bass worth a toss anyway- and that goes doubly for Metallica (and all their bassists) IMHO. I like a lot of Metallica's music, but have never found anything inspiring about any of their bassists, or bass playing.[/quote] Thats because,most Bassplayers....read Bassplayers.....not Bassists.....cant escape the holy riff,without weakening the overall sound. Most bands have no idea about dynamics,or even tuning.....or in sound.. I.e what sounds great in a bedroom dont sound that hot in a room,and sounds utter kak live.

[quote name='Josh' post='363697' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:29 PM']Ok fair enough thats the way you see it, but all your reply seems to reflect is both a dislike for morden Metal Bassists and Warwicks, which I expected and in some cases I'm forced to agree with you. But your seemingly much more moved by classic Metal which was and still is Fender driven. Thats what you prefer, I can't argue with you about that, why would I want to? Ultimatley niether of us are right, nor are we wrong. If anything Butler wasn't exactly fighting against much distorion back then and his tone has some crunch qaulities to it, so his tone was pretty much guaranteed to stand out, the same goes for JPJ and Steve Harris. P.S. Fieldy's tone dosen't deserve to even be called tone, it's mindless clicking.[/quote] Its no dissing of 'Modern' Bassists,nor Warwicks,its just the age old...."He uses X" advert vs whats actually used in the studio,I dont hate Warwicks at all,never had a beef with them,but they aint what they were when I started out...its an old complaint,but they changed summat in the early/mid 90s...But hey its a company decision,as is the endorsement rollcall...I recall an audition I had and one of the 'hooks' was a Warwick deal....I didnt get the job. There isnt such a thing as 'Classic' metal..theres just Good and sh*t,and then theres respect.... Geezer had to fight a war with Producers and engineers to get his 'sound' onto tape..and to say he was not fighting against distortion???? Kid are you crazy??? Iommi's tone EATS space,to make it heavy to quote 'With a heavy riff it just HAS to have distortion'...Sabbath IS Metal,yeah they made a few off the pace records,and the Ozzy stuff in the comeback years is ..file under..errrr...but the 'Heaven and Hell' stuff..that Lakland hes using is taken from the specs of the old P used from Black Sabbath to Master of reality. Ive noticed a few things in the 'modern' age....Not to many guitar solos and not many 3 pieces...I reckon with modern tones a 3 piece wouldnt stand up,and theres an awful lot of reliance on boxes and digi stuff to make up for lack of technique or just plain crap amplification..I used to diss the old duffers with only 20 frets,but they had a point and they had a tone that worked....I learnt that the hard way,and the tone still works..its still on records now.

[quote name='Josh' post='363687' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:03 PM']I'm afraid so, thats YOUR idea of THEEE Metal tone, I respect that. Surely your going to disagree with whom I say because: 1. Alot of them play Warwicks. 2. Metal is much more over-produced nowadays than it was when you were younger. 3. Your of a different generation of Metal to me. But IMHO of the best bass tones in Metal go to: Ryan Martinie Sam Rivers James Leech Arif Mirabdolbaghi Can we agree to disagree or is that not enough?[/quote] NO...Warwick have an endorsement deal running a mile wide,everyone likes free gear and they are hurling it at players,those guys are using Fenders on records,I see the youngsters click clicking tonally and calling it heavy,it sounds sh*t onstage,and it sounds crap on record...Ryan CAN play,and can play mean,but theres no darkness there,it isnt Heavy,its the post-Fieldy sound,it moves no-one,and yeah,the BASS has to be heard above downtuned guitars,but if Butler can cut through,AND still write lines that stand out without having to resort to boxes to fix in the mix,then theres summat very wrong...thats why the big ol'Fenders are still being used in the studio,they dont cause probs. Theres a lot more to metal tone than a Jappo name brand line6 DI'd into a mates studio......

[quote name='TheDarkReaver' post='363683' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:57 PM']Metal is a broad church though and I think Ps arn't as versatile for the whole range as a say a Jazz bass, or a spector. Spectors rock for metal \m/ I might be a bit biased though.[/quote] You ever been under studio conditions...not you paying..some other poor bastard,and the clocks ticking? You dont want versitile,you just want a tone that works,and P's do,by the ton. Spectors were great studio bass's in the 80s,but I reckon its the EMGs,and we are talking proper Spectors.

[quote name='Josh' post='363678' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:51 PM']No, Harris's tone is clicky and harsh, as is Websters. They stand out but IMO not in the way I prefer.[/quote] OK,are you going to say that Butlers is the same? THEEE metal tone? WHo is a good tone IYHO?

[quote name='Josh' post='363672' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:45 PM']Of course. 19, and Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes. In fact I recently found a clip of Alex of CC recording for one of their old albums, and the tone was IMO horrific: [/quote] YES yet another example of isolated bass track that sounds crap...throw it in the mix and it works. Great bass tone sounds arse on its own.

[quote name='Josh' post='363668' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:41 PM']And the only time you can really tell it's distinctive noise is when it's boosted with distortion and wah. Still, Jason used a 57 P-Bass on Load and Re-Load, as did David Ellefson on Cryptic Writings and Risk. Both albums for each band being the more Blues Rock driven so it had much more of place in the overall sound.[/quote] Thats not an answer....Are you saying Harris's tone is blurry,Webster on 'Butchered' is buried?...

[quote name='Josh' post='363665' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:35 PM']Nah I'm happy with them the way they are. I still get confused to why some people rave on about Cliff's Rickenbacker tone.[/quote] You do know how many Metal records use P's....how many Bassists use P's.... How old are you? Have you NEVER heard of Sabbath,Maiden,Cannibal Corpse,COC,Sepultura?

[quote name='Josh' post='363661' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:26 PM']To my ears, P-Basses don't work in alot of Metal situations,[/quote] ....clean your ears out..go to the docs and get them waxed

[quote name='Josh' post='363650' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:08 PM']Usually I'd almost agree, but Metallica + P-Basses = Vomit.[/quote] Eh? How'd you work that out?

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='363511' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:15 AM']Speak for yourself! Nothing remotely knob styleeee coming from me thank you very much..[/quote] Well,I dunno..theres a few bits you can 'Tweak' on a woman,some even change the tone and volume....not fitted with a true bypass though are you?

Its just a Bass guys,in the hands of a Bassplayer....nowt much to cry about.