ARGH

[quote name='Josh' post='364266' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:35 PM']And if anything, Ryans tone on L.D. 50 is very dark compared to the later releases. I guess Argh is saying that nowadays it's easy to look back and think it was easy to cut through, whereas back then it was more of an ordeal. Yet I don't actually recall saying that more distorion = More Metal. I'm not a fan of Black Sabbath and have always found their earlier stuff weak as in terms of modern day Metal, but I guess it's a case of "You weren't there so your never going to understand Kid".[/quote] No,its a simple case of you have no idea,but you can understand....the 1st 3 notes of 'Black Sabbath',the intro to 'Under the Sun',the pulse of 'Heaven and Hell'..the Main riff of 'Mob Rules'.....If you cant hear the sheer thunder and horror then you stand no chance if someone plays you any Possessed or Autopsy..or Sodom lps.Its was never easy,the equipment was harder to work with,and the communication was different between groups of players..its why/how a band sounds so different from one and another,now its just clones...you can get the equipment off the peg,turn it up,and in a bedroom its sounds awesome,but everyone ends up sounding the same....thats why theres nothing jaw dropping anymore....everythings route 1. The wonder of the internet has caused the death of working it out for yourself.....I recall Max Cavelera's story of having a tape with Hellhammer's Apocalyptic Raids on one side and Hear Nothing...by Discharge on the other..both bands looked totally different,but to Max they were the same thing......THEY were the heaviest things Max could find,if he wanted to go heavier,he'd have to find a way to do it his own self. I admire the 'Nu' lot....But theres nothing aggressive,or bleak,or dark,or horrid about them......its commercial,droptuned,guitar based music for the 00s,that sells but dosent scare. Scott Ian hit the nail on the head by saying 10 years back that "This is the first generation that WONT push the boundaries of extremity in music" Studios didnt have a clue how to record this stuff in the ages gone by,thats why whole genres hung around with one producer and one sound,Flemming was good at guitar sounds,at Bass he stank....The best guys in extreme metal at the time was ,in the USA Casey McMackin,and Randy Burns..later on Scott Burns..and in Europe it was Harris Johns in Hansa studios.and in the early days Horst Muller (Caet studios)....In the UK no one had a clue,not until 89/90..maybe 92,did we start having decent studio sounds...DeathMetal had sounds from country to country Basically bands were either stuck with what they had to deal with,or they had a fight...One thing began to kill music off though,sounds were coming not from Bands but equipment...Whole sounds....genre staples were based from a pedal,the technique to make a riff heavy,had started to die off,now anyone can get a guitar,tune it down and go 'UUUUURRRGGGHHH' and complain about their school/parents/girlfriend..its saturated,its got cold,and its got crap....bad bad bad. Its going to have to go back to the start......and its going to have to take a really big set of balls to make anything new,thats why I think the next big thing isnt going to come from the west.

Can I be even more lazy and say go download the tunes and use your ears like the way us over 30s had to! Its called ear training!!!!

Look,you lot are making me feel old here...... If you want to hear Good Bass on Thrash.....try 'Persecution Mania' lp by Sodom or pretty much anything by Coroner. [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU[/url] [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&...feature=related[/url]

[quote name='Josh' post='363988' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:47 PM']Tony choy?[/quote] Roger Patterson....

[quote name='Josh' post='363983' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:41 PM']Kreator?[/quote] you put a question mark on that

You always forget the Germans..even the Euro scene,when discussing the merits of Thrash...and musicality.

Go on...list

[quote name='xgsjx' post='363639' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:59 PM']My girlfriend got me a moogerfooger bass murf. Looking forward to getting home to try it out![/quote] Treasure that,they are rare I believe...

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363908' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:41 PM']Let's face it, 95% of the time in metal you can't hear any bass worth a toss anyway- and that goes doubly for Metallica (and all their bassists) IMHO. I like a lot of Metallica's music, but have never found anything inspiring about any of their bassists, or bass playing.[/quote] Thats because,most Bassplayers....read Bassplayers.....not Bassists.....cant escape the holy riff,without weakening the overall sound. Most bands have no idea about dynamics,or even tuning.....or in sound.. I.e what sounds great in a bedroom dont sound that hot in a room,and sounds utter kak live.

[quote name='Josh' post='363697' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:29 PM']Ok fair enough thats the way you see it, but all your reply seems to reflect is both a dislike for morden Metal Bassists and Warwicks, which I expected and in some cases I'm forced to agree with you. But your seemingly much more moved by classic Metal which was and still is Fender driven. Thats what you prefer, I can't argue with you about that, why would I want to? Ultimatley niether of us are right, nor are we wrong. If anything Butler wasn't exactly fighting against much distorion back then and his tone has some crunch qaulities to it, so his tone was pretty much guaranteed to stand out, the same goes for JPJ and Steve Harris. P.S. Fieldy's tone dosen't deserve to even be called tone, it's mindless clicking.[/quote] Its no dissing of 'Modern' Bassists,nor Warwicks,its just the age old...."He uses X" advert vs whats actually used in the studio,I dont hate Warwicks at all,never had a beef with them,but they aint what they were when I started out...its an old complaint,but they changed summat in the early/mid 90s...But hey its a company decision,as is the endorsement rollcall...I recall an audition I had and one of the 'hooks' was a Warwick deal....I didnt get the job. There isnt such a thing as 'Classic' metal..theres just Good and sh*t,and then theres respect.... Geezer had to fight a war with Producers and engineers to get his 'sound' onto tape..and to say he was not fighting against distortion???? Kid are you crazy??? Iommi's tone EATS space,to make it heavy to quote 'With a heavy riff it just HAS to have distortion'...Sabbath IS Metal,yeah they made a few off the pace records,and the Ozzy stuff in the comeback years is ..file under..errrr...but the 'Heaven and Hell' stuff..that Lakland hes using is taken from the specs of the old P used from Black Sabbath to Master of reality. Ive noticed a few things in the 'modern' age....Not to many guitar solos and not many 3 pieces...I reckon with modern tones a 3 piece wouldnt stand up,and theres an awful lot of reliance on boxes and digi stuff to make up for lack of technique or just plain crap amplification..I used to diss the old duffers with only 20 frets,but they had a point and they had a tone that worked....I learnt that the hard way,and the tone still works..its still on records now.

[quote name='Josh' post='363687' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:03 PM']I'm afraid so, thats YOUR idea of THEEE Metal tone, I respect that. Surely your going to disagree with whom I say because: 1. Alot of them play Warwicks. 2. Metal is much more over-produced nowadays than it was when you were younger. 3. Your of a different generation of Metal to me. But IMHO of the best bass tones in Metal go to: Ryan Martinie Sam Rivers James Leech Arif Mirabdolbaghi Can we agree to disagree or is that not enough?[/quote] NO...Warwick have an endorsement deal running a mile wide,everyone likes free gear and they are hurling it at players,those guys are using Fenders on records,I see the youngsters click clicking tonally and calling it heavy,it sounds sh*t onstage,and it sounds crap on record...Ryan CAN play,and can play mean,but theres no darkness there,it isnt Heavy,its the post-Fieldy sound,it moves no-one,and yeah,the BASS has to be heard above downtuned guitars,but if Butler can cut through,AND still write lines that stand out without having to resort to boxes to fix in the mix,then theres summat very wrong...thats why the big ol'Fenders are still being used in the studio,they dont cause probs. Theres a lot more to metal tone than a Jappo name brand line6 DI'd into a mates studio......

[quote name='TheDarkReaver' post='363683' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:57 PM']Metal is a broad church though and I think Ps arn't as versatile for the whole range as a say a Jazz bass, or a spector. Spectors rock for metal \m/ I might be a bit biased though.[/quote] You ever been under studio conditions...not you paying..some other poor bastard,and the clocks ticking? You dont want versitile,you just want a tone that works,and P's do,by the ton. Spectors were great studio bass's in the 80s,but I reckon its the EMGs,and we are talking proper Spectors.

[quote name='Josh' post='363678' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:51 PM']No, Harris's tone is clicky and harsh, as is Websters. They stand out but IMO not in the way I prefer.[/quote] OK,are you going to say that Butlers is the same? THEEE metal tone? WHo is a good tone IYHO?

[quote name='Josh' post='363672' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:45 PM']Of course. 19, and Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes. In fact I recently found a clip of Alex of CC recording for one of their old albums, and the tone was IMO horrific: [/quote] YES yet another example of isolated bass track that sounds crap...throw it in the mix and it works. Great bass tone sounds arse on its own.

[quote name='Josh' post='363668' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:41 PM']And the only time you can really tell it's distinctive noise is when it's boosted with distortion and wah. Still, Jason used a 57 P-Bass on Load and Re-Load, as did David Ellefson on Cryptic Writings and Risk. Both albums for each band being the more Blues Rock driven so it had much more of place in the overall sound.[/quote] Thats not an answer....Are you saying Harris's tone is blurry,Webster on 'Butchered' is buried?...

[quote name='Josh' post='363665' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:35 PM']Nah I'm happy with them the way they are. I still get confused to why some people rave on about Cliff's Rickenbacker tone.[/quote] You do know how many Metal records use P's....how many Bassists use P's.... How old are you? Have you NEVER heard of Sabbath,Maiden,Cannibal Corpse,COC,Sepultura?

[quote name='Josh' post='363661' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:26 PM']To my ears, P-Basses don't work in alot of Metal situations,[/quote] ....clean your ears out..go to the docs and get them waxed

[quote name='Josh' post='363650' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:08 PM']Usually I'd almost agree, but Metallica + P-Basses = Vomit.[/quote] Eh? How'd you work that out?

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='363511' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:15 AM']Speak for yourself! Nothing remotely knob styleeee coming from me thank you very much..[/quote] Well,I dunno..theres a few bits you can 'Tweak' on a woman,some even change the tone and volume....not fitted with a true bypass though are you?

Its just a Bass guys,in the hands of a Bassplayer....nowt much to cry about.

Change your tuners (Schaller ultralites),change the bridge(Schaller again),change your knobs to plastic rather than metal....failing that,buy a status neck that'll shave a lb off.. Not alot else to do besides sell it,you made the mistake by buying a Stinger fullstop (only a 70s ash Jazz is heavier at 11.5lbs) Ive only found one light one,and that was freaky,and I though it was a fake.....it was not,but it was that freaky!!!

[quote name='Alun' post='363399' date='Dec 25 2008, 08:24 PM']To be honest, a busy function band will probably expose the gear to a lot more people than an original band doing the pub circuit [/quote] Thats a fact,but its exposure in the media I think they work on!

[quote name='Rusty Shackleford' post='363601' date='Dec 26 2008, 12:25 PM']good luck to yer. i really to get hacked off with 'rock stars' getting all the free gear (like they need it?). something for the working man. VIVA LA ARGHS REVOLUTION![/quote] Awww fella,you ought to sit down and hear my views on education? Origins of tone,and the facts of plucking.... I'd endorse summat I believe in,but not any old crap...I see Tech21 have redone the Landmark 300w I'd like a bit of that,and I would endorse EMG or Dimarzio...Basses..well I play the best Basses already,and thats fact.

When I was 12 I discovered Heavy Metal,and a mate in the village had an uncle that in the 60s was part of the distro for Rotosound,Vox,and Futurama guitars...so there was a Phantom III 12 string,converted to 6,and various old Tone bender pedals lurking around,and he started to learn...its was typical of the time,Def Leppard,Maiden,Guns,Crue...whatever it was 1990. He was a few years older than me,and it was the coolest thing ever to hear distortion beside your ears,and I wanted to be in...so he passed the guitar over,and I tried,a chord...now I learnt a little piano when I was really small,so I'd heard of chords,and the guitar didnt hang right on me...so after 5 mins,my mate had a revelation "Man..I play guitar,and we cant form a band with 2 guitars..You have long arms...why dont you try Bass?" In hindsight,it was probably because I sucked,and he didnt want a challenger to his mantle,but I knew I wanted to play something... "WHATS Bass" Was my reply..... Now,being a small kid in rural Devon...literally nowheresville Exmoor,next to a town where NO bands come to,nor anything makes it out,I would have latched onto anything,maybe the guy was a psychologist or summat,but he said two words and being a massive Maiden fan..this guy was a god already.. "Steve Harris" I spent the next 10 months hassleing my parents for an instrument,I watched every vid,on Raw Power/Noisey mothers...to pick out a Bassplayer and what they do,I was getting into heavier music ,Megadeth,Motorhead....and the day came ..I remember it as crystal.. 28.11.91..around 4:30pm..I had stinking flu,but I WANTED A BASS MUM AND DAD.... They went to a small local shop,they had a Marlin Jazz Bass in black,which was cheaper,and dad wanted to get me that one (£129) I wanted the Hohner HP P bass copy..in red (169) coz it looked like Harris's Bass...They both thought I was mental,whats the difference,I still think to this day If they'd bought the Jazz,I would have given up..it HAD to look like Harris's bass...so I pleaded..and Dad relented "Fine...If its that one he bloody wants.." I picked it up and plucked on the E string,Fingerstyle,like I'd seen on tv...."Feels just right Dad" (as if I knew ANYTHING!!!) SO they paid...with a quizzical look in their eyes....it came in a BIG brown box,I bought a strap,and a cable...But I had no amp..and when I was better a week later I marched round to my mates house,plugged into his guitar amp,quietly,and made noise.... December and xmas came,and the cash I saved..I went and bought a 'Rhino' 15w bass combo..it still sits beside me now,and always will,its a fabbo little amp,and that was me at 14 years old...Im 31 now,and Ive played a lot of gigs and done pro recordings,play a 9 string Bass and plunk on uprights,but still...still....I recall that fluey day (when I get ill,it REALLY reminds me) and my 1st red P-Bass copy.

Explain that clearly? I feel a little weird,just Emailing,and banging on about myself,in the metaphysical future....Theres only a few companies I feel any love for,Tech21 being one..Its more a question of a friend suggesting a string endorsement,and maybe a cable along the same....