ARGH

[quote name='Sibob' post='132924' date='Feb 3 2008, 11:12 AM']This thread, in my humble opinion, is exactly the same as all the other threads which say "Where have all the good things that i like gone and why do you all like rubbish music" or some such. All these threads are full of people listing all their current inspirations highlighting the fact that the OP simply has a different taste to everyone else. So the example in this thread is Argh saying that the only person to take slap onwards and upwards since Larry Graham is Bill Dickens, now in my opinion, however technically adept Mr Dickens is, it's some of the most unmusical bass playing I've ever come across.1 I could list all the bass guitar (4, 5, 6, 7, upright, piccolo et al), programmed bass, no bass music that i think is inspirational and moving things forward, but because the whole thing is so subjective, it's pointless! I'm not actually bothered about how many strings we can fit on a bass, or how fast we can go, i want to know how we can contribute better to music, its been mentioned a billion times, but its the song that matters, not the individual instruments..........IMO Si[/quote] 1, No I didnt. Im saying techniques such as Dickens's are at the limit....there aint much else to develop,i think all the tools are there to learn,and the only way the instrument,we use, is going to develop is to physically change,if its going to exist into the next 100 years. Some people have taken this personally,and have been rather hostile,some have seen it as negative...almost doomy in its viewpoint. Thats understandable. Im not going to go round in circles,its not a topic of "All modern music is sh*t" if you think that reader you have got it wrong,I just think the instrument will change PHYSICALLY...the mental way we play as 'Bassists'...of 'Musicians..or whatever wont,the approach will be the same,the INSTRUMENT will be different. Taking it to a personal level... scathing me for pointing this 'happening' change,wondering about my level of playing ability..thats missing the point.

"You play guitar dont you Ross" "Er...well no,not really..I play Bass" "Well thats the same thing innit?!...its got strings"

[quote name='Jase' post='132688' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:37 PM']Nah, I don't think that of you at all but I still reckon there will be a player who will come about on a 4 string and give us all something to think about, a musician, writer, performer, not just a bass player.....goes back to the bass hero thread I sort of agree, there isn't much happening at the moment in the bass world that warrants jaws dropping.[/quote] Thankyou. But I reckon he or she will be using a 5 or 6. and have more frets,and different technology fitted into the instrument (lightwave,piezo) ,interchangable parts (fingerboards),setups available at the flick of a switch,a total instrument. the distinction of Bass and guitar,will cease. It wont go in my lifetime,but I see it happening,on the fringes,it exists.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='132681' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:28 PM']Cheer up, man.[/quote] I love you (gives a big Huggy squeeze). x

I LOVE Bassplaying SOOOO much...but I love music more. I suppose I see the evolution happening in other instruments,and I want us to be part of that. (Cue mad soothsayer look)

[quote name='Jase' post='132676' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:21 PM']C'mon ARGH, you know FOUR IS THE LAW!!! Only teasing mate, how's that big niner coming on? [/quote] Its Fine ,but thats not what Im getting at,some people are just seeing "Argh thinks 4 strings are crap and dead"and they are wrong...all wrong. It isnt what Im thinking or saying at all,Im just making the point that theres not much else you can do on the instrument as in its standard form ,apart from make it more versatile and that is the only way really that I see,it continuing to be a valuable instrument in the creation of music. Of course Bass is going to exist,it just wont look like it does in a centurys time,sorry if this is a bit difficult for teatime.

We have to move onward,its NOT about ERBs,just coz I play one of the things...thats NOT what I am getting at,never was. Im saying as it stands the basic instrument,at the level of 'standard',that is going to have to move otherwise,we are going become history... I see that as physically changing,quite why anyones hostile to this I have no idea,but hey,change hurts.

[quote name='ste_m3' post='132670' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:11 PM']Your the visionary![/quote] Low G sharp then...

[quote name='ste_m3' post='132665' date='Feb 2 2008, 05:08 PM']Oh for goodness sake, cant you go and cure cancer or something.[/quote] What key is it in?

[quote name='Musky' post='132658' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:49 PM']I think (and forgive me if I'm wrong, ARGH) it's not so much an extolling of ERBs or widdlesome technique, more that he's drawing comparisons with developments in bass playing and developments in musical styles. In the way that slap has defined so much modern funk and detuning is so prevalent in metal.[/quote] First prize... Its about the standard to exist in the future....

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='132626' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:04 PM']Hmm. Not a great start... Anyway, for me it's all about whether the music is good, and whether it moves me and the audience. It's got bugger all to do with pushing the envelope, 20-string basses and slappy-tapping. If you're into that, cool.[/quote] You've missed the point,it is and Im not.

Makes me wanna spark up a fat one... But I dont smoke or do herbs....

[quote name='Paul_C' post='132516' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:21 PM']That was me ! .. and it's still true If the world of recorded music is moving into a multi-tasking system (what do drummers think of all the drum software out there, that must be undermining them more than bass players ?), then those that want to keep themselves at the "cutting edge" have to consider following suit, and exploring what else can be done creatively with any instrument that comes to hand, not restricting themselves to what they can do with only one. Bass players of all flavours will continue to exist, some will be more creative than others, some will be converted guitarists who couldn't get a gig, some will find ways to be "different" and will stand or fall depending on how popular their view of how to play bass proves to be. No one will be right or wrong, and most of the world won't give a damn either way, especially if the singer is cute. P.[/quote] +1 (only with more strings)

[quote name='ped' post='132524' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:32 PM']Yes I wish you would stick to playing the thing rather than constantly loving yourself for it![/quote] I love playing,But I just worry about where,in Bassplaying terms..with the instument as it is now, is taking us as things are and where they are going. You seem to be taking this personally,I take things personally too..My Bassplaying is questionable..my instrument choice isnt.

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='132521' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:28 PM']What's the obsession with being different and moving things forward? Do what you want to do, and let others do what they want to do.[/quote] Given you are an Ipswich fan,the 1st line you write is obvious.(Goodluck against Wednesday) Because there have been a lot of threads along the lines saying "Whos the heros" recently. Stagnation is a deathknell,many are happy to play pubs and clubs doing covers..just PLAYING Bass..big up the massive,good for them...but thats static,its function,its good,but its function...Bloody good training to see what could be bettered,but Ive never been satisfied,I dont understand how anyone can accept that...static,but hey I get paid like you. individual thinking and playing and thought is the key... Stanley Clarke I remember saying "Some Kid..the Synapses just fire quicker"....so where are the kids?If There isnt anything to get THIS generation fired up...and if its all been said...what is there to do....maybe my road (as Rich said) is one of many....or perhaps the A road needs resurfacing. As for you 2nd line..I do,I do....but it isnt preached by all is it? Should I care...well I started this thread,what does that say? I Guess I do.

[quote name='kdphysio' post='132519' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:26 PM']christ! take a prozac or something, you're starting to depress us all. we'll be slitting our wrists soon!! music is supposed to be enjoyable & (god forbid!) fun (?) !!![/quote] Well winter gets me down....

[quote name='alexclaber' post='132508' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:14 PM']Any changes in technique and technology since the '80s relating to the use of the bass guitar in the vast majority of of music have been marginal at best. But as with all subjective the things, the 'truth' depends on your perspective and I doubt your truth will ever be anywhere near mine. But talking about all this is rather pointless - I want to hear your examples of what you're doing differently and am more than happy to share examples of what I'm doing differently. Alex[/quote] Me,Im just playing....

[quote name='Rich' post='132511' date='Feb 2 2008, 12:16 PM']For someone who complains about a lack of open-minded towards your particular instrument of choice, you display a remarkable lack of it towards anything other than that which you feel to be cutting-edge or innovative. I can almost guarantee you that in 20 years time there will still be far more call for 4/5 string groove-merchants than there will for ERB-wielding 'innovators'. Both will continue to co-exist, and this is a good thing. I'm not going to slag you off for looking up the side road and thinking "I wonder where that goes?"... more power to your elbow, good luck and I'll be interested to hear where you end up. Me, I am quite happy with my big wide A-road thank you very much, and I'd appreciate it if you could show me (and all the others like me) the same courtesy and not constantly sneer at us. And yes, you do.[/quote] To much Coffee Rich,its not good for you. 20 years yes,you will still be needing 5 strings.....

[quote name='Musky' post='132489' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:55 AM']I think there's a lot to be said for your argument ARGH, though I think it's rather in the nature of instrument rather than simple conservatism. There's only so much you can do with a stringed instrument, no matter how many strings you add to it, and essentially all those things have been done. We can add strings, detune, add effects or try new ways of attacking the strings, but fundamentally we're stuck with the same instrument. A lot of experimentation with bass just leads to replication of sounds available guitarists of keyboards. Nothing wrong with that of course - it keeps us as bassists in business - but it's nothing really new. And ultimately someone has to hold down the bottom end - it might be a keyboard player or a second (or third!) bassist, but it's likely to be us.1 Of course, nothing really new in rock has happened for quite some time (I wouldn't even call Grunge new). Pop has (long ago) eaten itself. But all the really new sounds are coming from the dance scene - which of course doesn't really use bass guitars. I think we ought to recognise that we're working within what is now quite an old cultural form, and one that's not likely to be the dominant one forever. Given the way instrumentation changes with genuinely new forms of music (or is that the other way round?) I don't think we need fret (ouch) too much progression of technique. Like the piano, the bass is what it is.2[/quote] 1,The weight of the world is Bass upon our shoulders. 2,This worries me,because,as Ive written,Im seeing the changes....its not on the horizon..its in the dark horrid underbelly,that wallows beneath...and that always bursts through..takes time. But Hey we shall all be playing 'Mustang Sally'...for at least the next week or two...

[quote name='bassman2790' post='132490' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:56 AM']For those of us old enough to remember, there was exactly the same feeling as ARGH is expressing here at the beginning of the 80's for both drummers and bass players alike. Machines abounded that could produce accurate, error free drum tracks and bass lines. Many studios had a 'drum programmer' and bass lines were now the property of the keyboard player. As bass players, we looked at our four string planks and thought, "This is it...this is the end". As we all know the 80's have come and gone and the bass guitar is still here. The guitar-based band is at the forefront once more. There is room in this big old world of ours for acts like White Stripes and Blood Red Shoes who don't feel the need for a bass player, but rest assured, it isn't the end. Bass players, the inspirational and the traditional alike will be around for a long long time to come. Also, ask yourself this. Who, in the world of guitars, drums and electronic music is producing something today, that can't have the "[i]finger of influence[/i]" pointed at them? Everyone takes something from the past and tweaks it to their own taste. That's human nature and long may it remain so[/quote] Y'see,Im being nice today...I like nice...not Hostile..makes all the difference dosent it. Hats off,a thinker....a genuine thought out,unhostile response I remember as a kid the MU debate about Synths,They were these fun but big heavy wooden demonic boxes that sounded really cool. But the instrument HAS changed since then....technology and technique...Im just thinking its going to...nope..got to change again...

[quote name='alexclaber' post='132484' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:40 AM']They have? Show me what proportion of guitarists are playing other than 6 string Fenders, Gibsons or one of a handful of 'approved' makers. Then compare that to the number of bassists playing fretless, 5, 6, 7+ strings, active, etc basses.1 Gimmick? The bass guitar is predominantly used to provide the lowest notes and thus the harmonic and rhythmic foundation for the vast majority of music created nowadays. Even in electronica related genres it remains used. The double bass is still king for orchestral music and jazz and fulfils exactly the same function in the same way. Your post makes almost no sense. The whole 'problem' with being a bassist is that your role is so utterly lacking in 'gimmicks' and 'remember that sound' type moments that no-one ever notices you or gives you credit for what you bring to the music. It seems that despite your experience this is still jarring with you, that you're lacking the self-confidence to believe in what you do and thus are being paranoid and oversensitive.2 I don't really care what the rest of the world does - I shall continue to enjoy writing, recording and performing original music which has my bass playing at the heart of it. If in 20 years I'm the only person doing so then I shall relish my uniqueness but sadly I suspect I'm unlikely to have that marketing advantage.3 Alex[/quote] 1,see post 16 last line.... 2,Thanks Freud I feel cured...given the large slab of purpleheart 2ft to my left,self confidence isnt an issue......weather I can play it is. 3, The Job description needs to expand...what is attainable now as in 'good',what if it was better?

[quote name='ARGH' post='132480' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:25 AM']Mutation,there is only so much you can do with we have at the moment,and its limits have been reached....music,basically all the other instruments around us are changing...our cousins (G***arists) have jumped on board without any qualms. In its currant design,if nothing moves or changes...its going to be played as a 'gimmick' or 'remember that sound' type thing rather than a vital needed part of music thats part of the cutting edge. Its happening at the extreme end of the spectrum....and that trickles through,takes time a few generations at best,but I can see it happening.[/quote] Rethought this whilst picking my car up from its MOT (It passed) Totalguitars,covering all ranges...maybe a bit 'Tomorrows world',bit like the stick...Im no fortune teller...

[quote name='thumbo' post='132475' date='Feb 2 2008, 11:13 AM']Why don't you think it will be around in 40-60 years?[/quote] Mutation,there is only so much you can do with we have at the moment,and its limits have been reached....music,basically all the other instruments around us are changing...our cousins (G***arists) have jumped on board without any qualms. In its currant design,if nothing moves or changes...its going to be played as a 'gimmick' or 'remember that sound' type thing rather than a vital needed part of music thats part of the cutting edge. Its happening at the extreme end of the spectrum....and that trickles through,takes time a few generations at best,but I can see it happening.

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='132464' date='Feb 2 2008, 10:58 AM']no, sorry... don't follow you here... I'm perfectly happy supplying the groove for blues and CC and gospel. I am completely uninterested in any form of tapping, slapping, popping or whatever... can't be jiggered to solo...1 a VST can't work off and feed the crowd... pre-recorded tracks similarly can't do it either... there's always a place for a Bassist and Drummer to get things going...2 the only reason you're upset is because of the cult of the DJ and nightclubs... and the resulting lack of venues in the UK for proper live playing...3 no they don't... our job is to hold down the bottom end and supply the platform for everyone else to work on...4[/quote] 1,Good for you,you've reached a point of being happy...glad for you,I hope you forfill the joy for many in your church and beyond. 2,saw a band the other night that did exactly that the other night,no Ryth section onstage at all,and they were awsome (I was in a state of tremors....But you have no Drums I thought,and then I felt unemployed...gulp) 3,Nope,sorry,you are just plain wrong there,Pubs and WMCs and weddings etc,are at overflow here.....But the DJ thing is a gritty thought in the shoe of my brain...popular music.. 4,see 1 for my joy for you,right now thats great...but we can and should be doing so much more..think of the possibilities,maybe its my union mentality kicking in,but if point 2 continues (and judging by the posters I keep seeing,and music that is 'popular' its growing) .....traditional thinking might be our creator and destroyer.* *Tad Apocalyptic..seems fitting given the Dantes Theme I was discussing the other day.

No I changed medication. But seriously,Its been bothering me,I was wondering if that dreaded moment of "Getting old" had kicked in,I checked and it hadnt... Given the threads recently along the lines of "Where have the good Bassplayers gone?"...I think my point is a contributing factor. The "Im alright Jack" response wont do either,its happening as multitasking takes over,I fear we are part of being left behind.