therealting

[quote name='subaudio' post='516171' date='Jun 17 2009, 10:03 AM']Nice one, there are good basses out there that dont require a morgage, okay a bass for around a grand will never compare to those instruments tonaly but you can still have a nice sounding and playable bass.[/quote] I think I will wait until I am a decent player before I splash out on anything over a grand... as it stands, this is much nicer than most student instruments.

[quote name='subaudio' post='516017' date='Jun 17 2009, 07:04 AM']Hiya Nice one ! how are you getting on with it ?[/quote] Only had it a week, but I'm liking it. I started lessons on DB in October, and have been using the school's hybrid bass (I am a schoolteacher) in the school orchestra. Okay bass, but the strings aren't great, action is very high and the spike is broken meaning I had to play seated, and the height of the seat was critical. Had the first opportunity to play my "new" Zeller (I think it's about 7 years old) in the school orchestra, and it is worlds apart. The violinists on the other side of the room were the first to comment on the improved projection. I am also enjoying being able to play standing up. I will eventually need to get it set up (and possibly get the bridge replaced), but even as is, it's great.

Funnily enough, I just bought a carved all-solid Zeller for under a grand.

I just got some from Hot Covers (http://www.hotcovers.co.uk) for my Flite and EBS cabs which are very nice. Nice outer material, very nicely padded, and not too expensive.

[quote name='WalMan' post='48113' date='Aug 21 2007, 12:59 AM']Since my shoulder was fixed I have been able to go back to a normal strap.[/quote] That X-ray looks like you've had a piece of very large fretwire embedded in your arm.

What I do with my students is get them to work out chord formulae (e.g. m7b5 would be Root, b3, b5, b7), then pick a root (e.g. B in your case) and figure the notes out (e.g. BDFA). I have a printout of the bass fretboard which I give them, and they put all the notes on the fingerboard for that given chord, and when they have done that they can work out the different voicings and inversions for the chord, and pick the ones they like best. I recommend this over any chord book really, it doesn't take long for each chord, and it helps you see the chords more clearly, both for playing chords and for arpeggios etc.

[quote name='paul h' post='43248' date='Aug 9 2007, 01:30 PM']are these any good? [url="http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/uk/10_musical_instruments/30_guitars_basses_amps/70_bass_guitars/10_bass_guitars/20_rbx_basses/10_RBX_A2/index.html"]http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe...X_A2/index.html[/url][/quote] The black version of that looks very cool.

[quote name='crez5150' post='42173' date='Aug 6 2007, 09:02 PM']blow pubs and clubs...... corporate is where the money is.... My 5 piece outfit gets a minimum of £2k per gig....[/quote] I hear you there. I was just comparing the hourly rate of a world class luthier to what I see as a typical gigging musician rate.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='41931' date='Aug 6 2007, 01:05 PM']Don't forget that this income is supplemented by sales of instruments in the shop and also from repair work.[/quote] Ah yes, that's more his income as a business owner (partner? I'm not sure what the business arrangements are). Pretty savvy in my opinion. If you consider them separately, I think what he earns from his craft itself is still pretty modest considering his very considerable expertise. If he's doing well, it's very much deserved. [quote name='chris_b' post='41946' date='Aug 6 2007, 01:28 PM']My Rock/Pop covers bands are mostly 4 and 5 piece, the Blues/Rock bands are all trios, but, £300-£400 for a bar/pub? I also play in a duo, but in my experience promoters won't pay the same for a duo as a band.[/quote] If you play as a trio, then £250-300 for the band will get you £80-100 each.

Another readily available option - Fender AeroDyne.

[quote name='chris_b' post='41914' date='Aug 6 2007, 12:40 PM']So a typical 4 piece rock covers band makes £300-£400 for a gig in a random bar? Where is this random bar? I want to play there, cos I don't see any bar bands earning that money anywhere in the south east!![/quote] The secret is to play as a 3-piece. The money can be even better as a duo.

Another suggestion of a hollowbody bass, such as a Godin A4 / A5 or similar. Quite similar to a Rob Allen... very lightweight and sound great, although quite different to conventional electric instruments. Adler basses are pretty lightweight, around 6lb for a four string if I remember. Or, if you have the money... [url="http://www.bassurgery.co.uk"]http://www.bassurgery.co.uk[/url]. 4lb for a four string!

[quote name='therealting' post='41549' date='Aug 5 2007, 12:20 PM']May I also point out that someone like Martin (a WORLD class luthier) probably spends many many hours working on a bass. Once you subtract the overheads and materials costs, and then divide the remainder of the price by the number of hours he spends building, he probably doesn't get a much money per hour. Probably less than an average Joe gigging bassist.[/quote] [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='41584' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:21 PM']He's spent a shedload on expanding the shop and I have no reason to believe that he isn't otherwise doing very nicely for himself at the moment.[/quote] [quote name='kjb' post='41555' date='Aug 5 2007, 12:23 PM']It's about 100 hours or so per instrument.[/quote] [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='41584' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:21 PM']So the cost of materials and parts is likely to be somewhere between £500 and £700 perhaps? Take that away from the cost of the bass and you'll be left with the labour. Divide that by 100 and you'll have an approximate hourly rate. In the construction industry the general rule of thumb is you charge double your costs. For the sake of interest, any Sei owners care to stick some numbers in that and see what works out?[/quote] I don't own a Sei, but based on the prices on the website (standard prices range from £1700 to £2030), let's work with an example of say a £3000 Sei. Subtract £500 for costs of materials and parts and you are left with £2500 for labour. If you assume it's 100 hours, that's £25 per hour. That's certainly not a bad rate, but bearing in mind that a typical guitar teacher in London makes about that per hour, and someone in a typical rock covers band in these parts will make £80-100 for a two-hour set in a random bar. I still think it's a very reasonable rate of labour for someone who is among the very best in the world. [quote name='kjb' post='41551' date='Aug 5 2007, 12:21 PM']He did tell me last year how many he makes a year, I think it was 20 or 30, I can't really remember.[/quote] [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='41584' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:21 PM']Then multiply the figure by 20 or 30 [/quote] Well, if you assume a typical £2500 profit per instrument, and multiply that by 20 instruments, that's £50,000 per year. 30 instruments makes it £75,000. Again, not a bad wage, but not as high as the typical earnings of the top achievers in most other fields / industries.

Prices are about supply and demand. Martin is probably getting more orders than he can build and still keep up quality. He is also growing in reputation, and no doubt in his experience and skill as a luthier. I think it's only fair that given those conditions, he has the right to increase his rate. As a gigging or session musician, if you start getting more offers of work than you can manage, you are well within your rights to increase your fee. There will be people who think it's too high, and they won't employ you, and others will think you are still worth it. Others may actually perceive you as a better player because you charge more! In any case, it helps you deal with the decision of which work to accept, since it gets filtered out for you. You get more money for the same amount of work. May I also point out that someone like Martin (a WORLD class luthier) probably spends many many hours working on a bass. Once you subtract the overheads and materials costs, and then divide the remainder of the price by the number of hours he spends building, he probably doesn't get a much money per hour. Probably less than an average Joe gigging bassist.