Earbrass

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350042228' post='1833867'] I hope your boss doesn't use that line when your next months salary doesn't get paid into your bank account. [/quote] I wouldn't out it past them. But that's a job - I only do that for the money. Music I do for the love of it. That means I value it more, not less.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350039416' post='1833813'] If you play for free, it means you don't value yourself. [/quote] What a sad little life you must lead if you can only feel valued when being paid.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1349974546' post='1833017'] Just trying to see what sort of people these 'play for free type musicians' are. [/quote] When I was last in a band (originals) we played gigs for free because we were ermm...ahead of our time, yeah, that's it, we were way ahead of our time , and it was a case of playing for free or not at all. Just being in it for fun, I thought we got quite a good deal actually, as we were always provided with a stage, PA, back-line amps and basic drum kit, and were given the chance to play to a handful of our mates and (sometimes) the other bands on the bill. I can't believe we were ever a threat to any professional musicians worthy of the name. Talking to my mate whose son is now in an originals band who are quite serious about their future in music, they seem to accept pay-to-play as the norm . I'd draw the line at that, not because I object to subsidising my fun, but because I'd feel taken advantage of. These days, with the morris, we do a mixture of paid and unpaid shows. When performing at festivals such as the recent Wallingford Bunkfest, we get free access to events and free camping for those who want it, but no fee. Most of the events are free anyway, and quite a few of us older and less hardy types patronised the local inns and hotels, and all of us spent money in the pubs and on food in the town. These are the very businesses who co-fund the festival, as I understand it, so all of us free performers, by providing some of the spectacle that attracts people to the festival and by spending money in the town, were actually helping to fund the pros like the fabulous Oyster Band who headlined on the Saturday night (I assume it was a paid gig for them and the other main performers - but I have no inside knowledge on the matter).

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1349880547' post='1831725'] Money causes too many problems that I wouldn't want to have to deal with in the hobby I do for FUN. I don't want to have to worry that we're not charging enough, making us look crap, or charging too much, making us look arrogant. I don't want to have to worry about the singer wanting 2 cuts because he also plays a guitar, or a drummer wanting more because he has to carry so much, or because he has further to travel. I don't want to stress about being stiffed by the venue at the end of every gig. And I don't want to have to cope with paying tax and stuff. And if I leave all this to another band member, I don't want to have to worry that he or she is doing it properly. I have a few hobbies that I enjoy and have to pay for and don't expect anything back from. There are hobbies I would like to do but they're expensive, so I can't, I just have to accept that. I am far from well off and having to travel to gigs and rehearsals and replace strings and leads and such, would have to come out of my own pocket and I would have to go without other things to pay for them, but that's the price of a hobby. Not being bothered about making money at it does not make me evil or a lesser musician than you. And implying as much is just snide and smacks of bitterness. [/quote] Great post.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1349809096' post='1830887'] Just remember you get better in tiny increments and a little and often is better than 4 hours one day and nothing for a week. It's surprising how easy it is to find a few minutes here and there. [/quote] Good point. A tip I heard a while back was to commit to spending at least one minute every day playing your instrument. It's too easy to put it off until you've got time to "do it properly". One minute may sound too little to be of any real use, but the value lies in the commitment to play at least a few notes every day - I think the idea is that once this becomes a habit, you find you are practising more overall than if you try to make time for longer practice sessions less often. [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1349809411' post='1830895'] I don't practice really, very rarely at least. I only play when I need too. If I need to play something I can't, I know how to practice to get me playing it (not Portrait of bloody Tracy of course). [/quote] I also have a lot of sympathy for this approach. Not being content with being a just a mediocre bassist, I spread my meagre talents accross several instruments and am also mediocre on the keys, guitar, melodeon and piano accordion. Generally, I only practise the instrument I am currently gigging with - so that's the melodeon at the moment. The other instruments only get any serious use on my recording projects, which being classic "underdeveloped hobby music", take ages for me to complete. So it might be a year or more between me playing, say, guitar on one track, and the next. I do a bit of practice in advance of the recording sessions, but it's usually pretty focused on the parts I'll need to play for the track, so, like Nigel, it's more of a "learn what I need in order to play the parts I have to play" approach rather than practice aimed at generally improving technique.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1349861433' post='1831331'] Guy in the audience spends half the first set staring at the headstock of my bass. Comes up to me at the break ...[i] "'Ere mate, is that a Peavey?".[/i] [/quote] Don't feel down, your bass may not be a Peavey, but it's probably [i]nearly[/i] as good. E (happy Milestone III owner)

Think of practising as one of the things I can't put off till later.

26 and 28 for me. That rubbish "piano(?)" sound starts to grate pretty quickly though - surely they could have found something better?

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349707656' post='1829374'] That sounds very selfish to me. But, as you say, you are free to be as selfish as you wish ..... unfortunately. [/quote] I don't see why it's any more selfish than "pro" musicians expecting the rest of us to abstain from doing what we enjoy so as to leave the field clear for them.

[quote name='mushers' timestamp='1342878319' post='1742270'] i shall be playing for free this year at least 2 gigs sorry if it pisses some people off but i dont care [/quote] [quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349703496' post='1829285'] Well, you should care. There are musicians who perform for a living and depend upon being paid for gigs. These are generally the higher-quality acts who provide pro entertainment. Every time some of us play for free ....... we spoil the market for other who need to be paid. [/quote] I will never feel guilty about playing for free. I made my career choices and "pro" musicians have made theirs. One of the benefits of my choice is having enough money to subsidise my hobbies - and that has included playing gigs in bands for free. If that causes issues for those "needing" to get paid for doing the same, it's up to them to provide something so much better than what's on offer for free that people will pay the extra for it. If they can't do that, they are in the wrong business.

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1349096867' post='1821683'] If the state of the economy means that we're all more likely to get on with making music with what we have rather than continually seeking to blame our tools and hankering after something 'better' - I think that's no bad thing. [/quote] The voice of reason.

No personal experience, but a quick google came up with these: [url="http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120222151710AAu9mrU"]http://answers.yahoo...22151710AAu9mrU[/url] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9IX3erSt0A[/media]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348098812' post='1809438'] One of the reasons I've spent a lot of time working on my technique and studying music is because I want to be able to play ideas that I hear. [/quote] I think this is a key point; the more technique one has, the easier and more fluent is the process of getting what's in one's head out into the world. Having played keyboards almost all my life, I can usually play what I hear in my head pretty easily, without thinking much about the mechanics of playing it. That process is a bit harder for me on bass, and a lot harder on melodeon, which I've only been playing for 3 years - I usually have to go away and work out how to play something on that. I find in general that the less technique I have on an instrument, the more my playing is determined by what comes easily to the fingers, rather than by what I can imagine.

[url="http://soundcloud.com/octobersky"]These guys[/url] started following me on soundcloud, so I checked them out - good stuff!

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1340215196' post='1701260'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Whoops! Didn't realise I was so shallow! Not proud of that.[/font][/color] [/quote] Sorry, didn't mean to make you feel bad - I think we've all felt the "basschat effect". When I first joined I went through a little phase of bass acquisition / swapping, but I'm all better now and back down to the one old faithful.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1340208250' post='1701099'] In over 30 years of playing I have had one bass at a time apart from the last 3-4 years and now I have 5. What changed? [/quote] [quote] [b] 4 Strings[/b] Member Since 19 Oct 2009 [/quote]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1340196258' post='1700778'] I seem to be getting the impression, although I could be wrong, that some people feel that making a living as a musician, or more specifically as an artist, that the possibility of developing your art or craft without the distractions of a full-time job, is no longer something to aspire to. [/quote] Another thought on this: if you rely on your music to pay the bills, you are going to have to devote your time and energy to the projects that bring in the cash. Unless you are very talented or very lucky these won't always be the projects that you believe in, or which will allow you to develop your art and craft. You may find that you have less time and energy to devote to those than if you had an income from a less demanding day-job. Being a pro can be something of a double-edged sword.

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340133708' post='1699798'] [size=5][b]buy this man's LP ^^^^^^^ ![/b][/size] i just did. it kills. [url="http://alphamaleteaparty.bandcamp.com/"]http://alphamaleteaparty.bandcamp.com/[/url] [/quote] +1 played some of the tracks from the site and am now awaiting the CD ..although I was less than impressed by the confirmatory email: [i]If you haven’t [b]gotten[/b] your download already...[/i] ugh. What's wrong with "received" ?

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1340198681' post='1700867'] If all music were free, the only people with any reason to make music would be those who had something to say or a deep love of it. [/quote] This. [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1340199116' post='1700880'] Yes but I think "your day" is longer ago than you realise [/quote] Harsh.

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1340196258' post='1700778'] I seem to be getting the impression, although I could be wrong, that some people feel that making a living as a musician, or more specifically as an artist, that the possibility of developing your art or craft without the distractions of a full-time job, is no longer something to aspire to. [/quote] It's a nice position to be in if you can manage it, but my point was that it's not a [i]necessary condition[/i] for making great music, and that it's quite wrong to assume that anybody who is making music on an unpaid basis can only be producing, in Nigel's choice phrase, "underdeveloped hobby music". Having said that, I should perhaps add that it probably [b]is[/b] a fair description of my own output.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340192522' post='1700665'] No, can't find it. Where is it? [/quote] It's here: [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1340191696' post='1700634'] For example, there's a guy who works in my office who sings in a choir in his spare time. They do a fair few international concerts at top venues, and have had their performances at the Royal Festival Hall broadcast on Radio 3. By your definition, that would be "underdeveloped hobby music", I presume, yet the quality of musicianship far exceeds the majority of commercial pop acts. [/quote] [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340193595' post='1700712'] You have not understood me. Where do you get time to develop as an artist? [/quote] Some people will "develop as an artist" despite having many claims on their time, others will never develop even when they have all the time and money in the world. There is no simple correlation between the quality of music produced and whether the artist is getting paid or not. There are plenty of stunning amateur musicians out there making great music, and plenty of highly-paid professionals churning out dross.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340192003' post='1700647'] Why is it? [/quote] Please see my edited post above. [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1340191696' post='1700634'] [/quote]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340190562' post='1700610'] The music you are happy to give away is [b]underdeveloped[/b] hobby music. [/quote] a rather patronizing assumption, don't you think? For example, there's a guy who works in my office who sings in a choir in his spare time. They do a fair few international concerts at top venues, and have had their performances at the Royal Festival Hall broadcast on Radio 3. By your definition, that would be "underdeveloped hobby music", I presume, yet the quality of musicianship far exceeds the majority of commercial pop acts.

I joined MysteryHornyAnimalChat the other day. I still don't know what came over me.

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1339757729' post='1693778'] That thread is from 2010 BC. [/quote] Quite old then . "This flint-knapper is at the wrong henge" was a popular thread at the time, I believe.