stevie

I (and I assume others who have participated in this thread) was asked yesterday evening by a mod not to participate any further in this thread. That is their privilege and I will respect that. I would just like to point out that, if you read the thread from the beginning, you will see that I have not criticized anyone personally nor have I insulted anyone. My remark to Bill pointed out by BluRay and BassTractor was over the top, however, and I apologize for that.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361904095' post='1992866'] No. This is normal. If there was a dip below 5 ohms in the region where 75% of the power demands lie for electic bass it would be an issue, but that region lies below 500Hz. [/quote] Why would you say that? Of course it's not normal. The impedance should remain above nominal across the entire passband of the speaker and the manufacturer quotes a usable frequency response of 40Hz to 9kHz. What if your keyboard player uses it? Is there anything in the manual saying they shouldn’t? I can see why you’re jittery though. Roger’s done the right thing and employed you to OK the technical performance of the speaker and you messed up. In theory you are now liable for the cost of recalling and modifying all the Baer speakers in the field to meet the published spec. Nice one!

There's not much energy at 3kHz unless you're slapping really hard - so you're quite likely to get away with it. It's difficult to quantify the risk really. But there shouldn't be any risk at all.

The acoustic measurements are perfectly consistent with the description of the box in the review (esp. the crossover to the mid unit at 1500Hz) and with the impedance curve shown. The impedance measurement is completely independent of whatever mic measuring technique is used and is certainly quite accurate.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1361888713' post='1992491'] There's a place for tongue in cheek - not sure this is it? [/quote] I did say in the first line that it wasn't really a review.

Based on several decades of working with such things. The data is consistent.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1361887521' post='1992454'] Stevie - it's a bit unfair calling it a review, don't you think? [/quote] A bit tongue in cheek. What would you prefer?

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361886741' post='1992443'] All of that assumes that the Bass Gear chart is accurate. It is not. Why has already been explained in great detail. And as they have always used the same flawed measuring technique every chart they've ever published is not accurate. I don't see that you've been breaking every other manufacturers balls over the disinformation published by Bass Gear, so why you're picking on Baer suggests a personal agenda. And it reminds me why I long ago put you on my ignore list, and why you're going back on it after this short hiatus. [/quote] It looks accurate enough to me. Just because they're not using ground plane doesn't make the measurements invalid. So why don't you argue the facts instead of attacking me personally?

We should now keep our eyes peeled for lots of £49.99 bargains!

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1361878177' post='1992209'] Probably no replies because it seems perfectly reasonable. [/quote] I think so too. It's a very intelligent solution to the problem.

Review of the Baer ML112 Well, not really a review as such, but I thought I’d flesh out my earlier remarks for those of you planning to audition the Baer cabs. Here are a few pointers gleaned from the measurements from the Bass Gear test that may be of help. I’ll try to keep it salient. The first thing you notice on the Bass Gear frequency response plot is the first thing you will hear when you listen to the product. There is a large (6dB or so) peak at around 1600Hz which is the main breakup mode of the bass driver. This peak comprises distortion and delayed resonances (‘ringing’) and is fairly typical of some Eminence LF drivers. Normal practice is to neutralize such peaks by putting them well out of the passband. These are resonances, not unlike cabinet resonances, and are normally undesirable. One of the benefits of using a midrange driver is that you get to take these “nasty" breakup frequencies out of the equation and replace them with a nice smooth, clean, uncoloured midrange. There are several other benefits of this arrangement, including directional consistency up to a much higher frequency than the bass driver can manage on its own. However, because the crossover frequency of the ML112 is at a very high 1500 – 1700 Hz (where you would expect to cross to a 1” compression driver like in Duke’s AudioKinesis system) this speaker gains few of the benefits of a bass/mid design where the transition normally takes place much lower (at around 600Hz). It’s almost as if the midrange driver in this system were being used as tweeter. The sharp cancellations in the off axis responses show that the crossover design is flawed (the off-axis curves should be smooth). This is also likely to have a negative effect on sound quality in this area. Finally, also as a result of the crossover design, the impedance curve of this 8-ohm-rated cab drops below nominal at around 1500Hz and drops further to around 4 ohms at 3kHz. This is quite a serious design fault and means that the product does not meet one of its most important specs. Whether you will damage your amplifier by using two of them is anyone's guess but if I were considering laying out money for one of these cabs, I would be happier if I knew the manufacturer had the technical expertise to avoid this kind of problem in the first place. There’s more, but I think that gives you a few pointers. The main thing I would listen for when auditioning these would be whether I could live with the large resonant peak built into the cab, because it will dominate anything you play through it (and because it’s a resonance, it will be there to some extent even if you try to dial it out). Anyway, I’m sure you’ll all make your own mind up and the final arbiter is your ears. If you like it, get your credit card out and buy one. It’s your money.

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1361611756' post='1988161'] I think you are being rather unfair to Mr Baer here. [/quote] Perhaps you’d read again the bit you’ve quoted and tell me where the word ‘Baer’ appears. I was asked whether I thought “the advertising thing was wrong?” and I said I wasn’t a big fan. Straight answer to a straight question. Roger is playing to the gallery here - rather well if I may observe. [quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1361611756' post='1988161'] but even so, I am thrilled that we can get the maker to be part of the discussion about his gear. I only wish more manufacturers were interested in taking part in online forum discussions. [/quote] I suppose we all have to get our thrills somewhere.

[quote name='R Baer' timestamp='1361586509' post='1988074'] Ok, I must have misunderstood the criticism that was leveled at me, so if you will explain what you meant, I am more than happy to answer any questions you have about our products. I don't know if you are saying the cabinet measured poorly, or if the measurements themselves were poor. [/quote] I didn't level criticism at you personally. The cabinet measured poorly in the Bass Gear test. The measurements look fair to me but perhaps you’d like to clarify the matter by posting the set of measurements Bill did for you. What measurements did he do exactly? I am pleased that you are more than happy to answer questions about your product. [quote name='R Baer' timestamp='1361586509' post='1988074'] Instead of the pint in a pub analogy, think of it this way. You walk into a booth at NAMM to check out some gear and the guy there walks up to you with their corporate logo on their shirt. [/quote] We’re clear then. You consider Basschat to be a marketing channel comparable to a stand at Naam and I consider it to be more like a pub where like-minded musicians can meet to chat, exchange experiences, offer and receive advice. Did I say you shouldn’t wear your logo here? Don’t make a meal of it, Roger. [quote name='R Baer' timestamp='1361586509' post='1988074'] I disagree. A user posting a review doesn't have to be an audio engineer to be able to relate his or her direct experience with a product and have it be relevant. When shopping for gear, I like to read about players personal experience with gear I am considering, whether they are working pros, or casual weekend warriors. And I don't mind that opinions are biased. If I'm considering a new bass, a Sadowsky, for example, the fact that the players using these instruments are so excited and passionate about them tells me something useful about the product. [/quote] You disagree with what? That measurements are useful? Don’t you measure your amps?

The scraping noise is the giveaway sound of a blown driver. You could confirm with an ohm meter to see if the coil is open circuit. The cheapest route is to recone yourself. You can buy the recone kits for about £60 and the instructions are available online. But you need to be confident that you can work in an absolutely meticulous and precise way or else you're wasting your money. I would guess at a specialist recone being well over £100. Add £20 for carriage both ways and it can mount up. I'd get in touch with the seller to get my money back. It sounds like you've been ripped off.

Well, Random, maybe it's never happened before but I'm sure you'll get over it. I did provide an explanation of why I thought you were mistaken and you're welcome to disagree. I've aired my concerns and we'll see if any information is forthcoming. Yes, the advertising thing does bug me a bit, especially when it gets excessive. If I'm having a pint in a pub, the last think I want is somebody trying to sell me insurance or flashing their corporate logo at me. But I never used the word 'wrong'. I do think it would be a good idea for Basschat to charge companies for displaying their business logo. That way at least Basschat would benefit.

Well I'm glad about that. You're wrong about the "well considered and explanatory" thing because he completely sidestepped my point about the poor measurements of the cab in Bass Gear Magazine by repeating what Bill had said and claiming that measurements are not meaningful unless everyone uses the same methods. But I can forgive you for that So, while a vendor is allowed a certain leeway to promote his products on this site (unlike many others, I would add), these vendors should in return play the game and respond to reasonable criticism when it's levelled at them.

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1361543244' post='1987265'] Let's hope you'll thrive amidst the Euroloons. We're seriously weird, ya know. [/quote] Ha, do you know anything about Texas, Bert? I'm sure you'll find us all very normal, Dave.

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1361522750' post='1986828'] From the horse's mouth, indeed. Always a welcome thing here, especially such a well considered reply. [/quote] You really don't recognize an advert when you see one, do you, Random? He even managed to include details of his UK stockist.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361542631' post='1987248'] Subjective views are just as valid as the technical review, IMO.. they all build a pciture. but they don't make you buy them unheard or unseen. [/quote] Nothing against subjective opinions when they are unbiased and from someone who knows what they're talking about, but measurements can explain much of what you are hearing that you can't necessarily put your finger on. They can also highlight problems, if you know how to interpret them. As you say, the big picture.

If it's wired in series you could try switching it to parallel. You'll lose some volume and some of those aggressive mids. It's easier than changing magnets.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361465147' post='1986130'] And I've found them the most worthless part of his reviews, as they do not adhere to any measurement standard. [/quote] Because they do not adhere to a measurement standard doesn't make them worthless. Sure, it would be nice if Tom were to get his act together and publish more consistent measurements, but I'm pleased that he's doing them at all, because nobody else is. And they are useful. For example, you can see from the measurements of a Trace Elliot cab in this month's issue that they have wired the tweeter the wrong way round. That's quite interesting, especially for people who have bought that cabinet.

Did a deal with Jonathan last week. We arranged to meet at a convenient point for both of us (in a Tesco car park in fact) where I swapped some folding stuff for a bass cab. Everything went well, except that I was a bit late, and the cab was just as described. A great chap to do business with!

That's a bit harsh. You can nit pick, but I've always found Tom's measurements to be the most useful part of his reviews. You learn an awful lot more from those than from the subjective reviews, where he is clearly reluctant to be too critical. As he's the only one publishing measurements of bass gear, I think he deserves a pat on the back - also for the internal photos of the gear.