stevie

Only if your willy is vertically aligned!

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1035185' date='Nov 24 2010, 03:32 PM']If it helps I'm well happy with my 2 Barefaced Compacts and they do a most excellent job! I recommend Alex's gear highly...[/quote] There's a man who'll give you a straight answer to a straight question.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1035183' date='Nov 24 2010, 03:28 PM']Science does have a tendency to win out over dogma, though sometimes it takes a while. Ask Galileo.[/quote] Yeah, Bill. You and Galileo are one of a kind.

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='1034867' date='Nov 24 2010, 11:00 AM']Stevie, if you ever fancy a trip this way I'd love a second opinion on my cabs.[/quote] You're not all that far from me, Phil. Sounds like an idea. I'd be very interested to hear what you've concocted. You can buy me a pint whilst we're at it

I think Phil's sealed cab idea is worth a try. I'd go with rear porting personally, but 4 Strings himself is the only one who can say whether a sealed cab is useable. It might also be a useful interim solution that can be easily and quickly implemented – certainly quicker than building another box, which he has said he doesn't want to do.

That's a nice bit of lateral thinking and certainly worth a try, as it will completely bypass the port turbulence problem. Here is a comparison of the performance of the sealed and ported versions of this cab (yellow is ported and pink is sealed): Notice that the sealed version loses quite a bit of sensitivity between 60 and 200Hz, which will make the bass sound thinner. A tweak of the graphic eq could compensate somewhat. The downside of the sealed version is that it will not go as loud as the ported version between 50 and 100Hz. It could be loud enough though.

Hi Dominion, I assume you mean replacing rather than reconing. The two leading budget brands of speaker suitable for bass guitar are currently Celestion and Fane. I suspect that Fane currently has the edge in the value-for-money stakes. Eminence is mentioned a lot, but their stuff if very hit and miss. Phil Starr, who is well informed about these matters, tried out some of the Fanes not long ago. You might like to PM him, as I haven't seen him posting for a week or two. Celestion makes a number of ranges specifically designed for bass guitar. So you are unlikely to go wrong by choosing from the Celestion Green (in preference to the Orange) bass guitar range here: [url="http://professional.celestion.com/bass/green/index.asp"]http://professional.celestion.com/bass/green/index.asp[/url]. The neo drivers are more expensive than the traditional ferrite magnet ones but offer the advantage of lightness, which is probably irrelevant for your purposes.

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1033098' date='Nov 22 2010, 07:35 PM']I didn't really want to go down this road because originally I was only making a throwaway point that ported cabs are not without compromises of their own, but I dislike such a didactic and obfuscating response to a point as I originally got (especially when it effective diverted from the main thrust of my argument).[/quote] [u]Description of Red Herring[/u] A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form: 1. Topic A is under discussion. 2. Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A). 3. Topic A is abandoned.

[quote name='4 Strings' post='1034384' date='Nov 23 2010, 08:29 PM']On the link to Falcon Acoustics there's an 80mm version with bell mouths. I'm thinking of two of those.[/quote] Yes, I agree they look good. Unfortunately, the design constraints on your cab are so tight, that two 80mm reflex ports would be too much: the combination of the flaring and the extra diameter would require a port length of 300mm (or more). However - and the choice is yours - a single 80mm flared port (170mm long) would be noticeably better than what you have now (because the flaring at each end helps reduce turbulence), but not as good as two 66mm ports.

I think we have an echo in here. Follow this link for a JBL cab that is just a bit bigger than yours: www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4646a.pdf. It's 34 litres compared with your 28 litres - a difference, but not a deal-breaking one. It contains a JBL 2206 driver which models very closely to yours in the same-size box. You'll notice there are two 70mm ports at the front. JBL built thousands of these and it is a well-proven, compact sound reinforcement bass cabinet, specifically designed to accept bass boost. JBL fitted this particular 12" driver to smaller cabs (the Soundpower 1725 was only about 20 litres if I remember correctly) as well as to bigger ones. I happen to have one of these cabs at home - it's a nice size for tucking under the piano. I have the original JBL speaker but have also fitted a number of other 12" drivers, including a Celestion neo, which is in there at the moment and which sounds great. You are, of course, free to build another cabinet to put your Beyma into as Bill seems to be insisting ad nauseam that you do. But if, as you say, you're happy with the sound of your present cabinet, adding a second port will allow it to go louder before the onset of nasties.

I did a similar conversion with a 2 x 10 Laney cab not so long ago. I swapped the drivers for better ones and put a 4" rear port in the back where the crappy input panel had been. I then fitted a Speakon input socket on the back. It completely transformed the cab, as its new owner will testify. And it looks professional.

You're thinking along the right lines. What I suggest you do is this. Close up the hole at the front of the cab using a piece of plywood (or put the tweeter back in). Then fit two of these ports to the back of the speaker: [url="http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/cabinet-parts-accessories/bass-reflex-port-tubes-loudspeaker-grille-mounts-dowels-calculation-sheet/bass-reflex-port-tube-standard-reflex-66mm.html"]http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/cabinet-p...eflex-66mm.html[/url] The theory says that you should leave a gap equivalent to the diameter of the port between the end of the port tube and the back panel of the box. I'm not sure quite how rigidly you need to stick to that, but the ports are adjustable in length anyway - so if you want to experiment you can. Moving the port close to the back panel will drop the tuning slightly but will also cause turbulence. The ports I've suggested are just under 3 inches in diameter and will therefore give you a usable tuning at around 170mm long while still maintaining a reasonable vent air velocity. The benefit of doing it this way is that the cabinet will still look good when you've finished. One port at the front and one at the back would be a bit of a bodge.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1032706' date='Nov 22 2010, 03:00 PM']There's nothing the least bit magical about sealed cabs. Most cabs in the 60s were sealed not because they sounded better but because most of the drivers available didn't work any better in vented alignments. Designers/manufacturers who still create sealed cabs don't do so because they're better, they do so because they sell, mainly to customers who think there's something inherently better about the tone of a sealed cab.[/quote] I'm not sure what cabs in the 60s has got to do with anything, but here's one of those customers who thinks there's something inherently better about the tone of a sealed cab. "[i]What are your thoughts on closed box vs ported for mastering in a properly treated room, especially with bass heavy music?[/i] This is a real sore point with me. As far as I'm concerned, every ported speaker I've ever heard, even the ones purportedly optimized for perfect Thiel/Small performance, has "looser bass" and usually some kind of hidden or obvious resonance and often compromised dynamics. …… And since mastering should employ an absolute reference speaker, then ported has to be out, unless someone out there can name an exception to the rule that I have not yet auditioned. People come from miles around to listen to and marvel at my system, which has been quoted as having the "tightest, flattest bass around". My Reference 3As are ported, (which I used before I moved to the Lipinski plus JL sub), and demonstrate to me time and again that the 3As definitely were an interim mastering solution. They now sit in the alternate listening room to prove to one and all that you can easily manufacture artificial bass with a port! Bob Katz

[quote name='4 Strings' post='1032011' date='Nov 21 2010, 10:35 PM']I read here: [url="http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hug&n=42234&highlight=jdruley"]http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=...ghlight=jdruley[/url] that someone had worked out a 4" dia tube around 3" long.[/quote] That cab size is 46 litres and he's tuning it to 62Hz. Your cab is only 28 litres - and you really want to tune it lower than 62Hz for bass guitar. As you reduce cabinet size, you have to make the port longer if you want to keep the port diameter and tuning frequency the same. Lowering the port tuning frequency also means lengthening the port. That's why my suggestion is longer than the one you've quoted: it's because your cab's smaller. A 100 x 200mm port will tune your cab to about 55Hz (and reduce the vent air speed considerably).

[quote name='4 Strings' post='1032011' date='Nov 21 2010, 10:35 PM']I have no idea about ports, would I need one a foot long?[/quote] 3in will tune much too high in your cab. You could get away with one that is 200mm long, but any longer is a bonus.

I've checked out the Beyma. It's a nice driver. A bit old but good quality. You're not really going to get anything better from Celestion of Fane. However, unless it's faulty, the driver is not your problem. It models OK in your cab - up to its power rating it is comparable with the JBL 2026, which is known to work well in a small box. There is not a lot of low bass, but power handling is good and you can always eq. It is likely to give you lots of slam. From the information you have supplied, my guess is that your port is causing the problem. IMO, what you are describing as breakup is actually your port overloading because it is not big enough. You can check for this by putting your ear up to the port and playing a bottom E at high power. You will hear 'chuffing' / wind noise coming from the port. A 3-inch port is not much use in a cab this size because port overload will happen quite early on. The alternative is to increase the size of your port. If you can increase it to 4in diameter (or add a second 3in port), it should help with the problem. Unfortunately, doing this increases the port length to 300mm, which is quite substantial. It will probably need a bend, and will rob you of some of your cab volume. This is a constant problem with small, high power cabs.

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1030994' date='Nov 20 2010, 11:18 PM']It's 1 louder[/quote]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1030495' date='Nov 20 2010, 03:10 PM']It really depends what the original driver is, whether it's worth replacing or not. Is it possible to find out?[/quote] 4 Strings says it's not the original - so he is likely to know. I'm also wondering if it's a 4-ohm driver.

[quote name='neilb' post='1029584' date='Nov 19 2010, 04:43 PM']You cant say that correctly!!!! LOL Its [i]la[/i] bouche ....(feminine)[/quote] But he also used the past participle instead of the second person imperative. Surely you noticed that!

If you're going to fit self-tapping woodscrews, I think it's good practice to drill pilot holes first. On pro gear, casters are normally fitted using t-nuts (on the inside of the cab) and bolts (around M6). You pays yer money. You may not need bolts and t-nuts but it's worth considering. Screwfix is usually a good source for this kind of hardware.

Interesting. They could have a winner on their hands. The styling looks good too, at least in the photos.

[quote name='Delberthot' post='1027773' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:34 AM']They've been getting some good reviews on Talkbs but they ain't for the hifi mob apparently. Meant to sound really rocky and aggressive which suits me down to the ground.[/quote] If you like the sound, that's an amazing price for a proper ply cab with a neo driver. Are they made in China?

Bought a cab from me. Prompt payment and no hassles. Great bloke.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1025453' date='Nov 16 2010, 03:51 AM']But to say that if one's using four tens that the only way it should be done is to put them into a typical 4x arrangement is to ignore an alternative that most players who have actually tried prefer.[/quote] A bit of a strawman argument you're putting forward there, Bill, I’m afraid. Nobody is saying, or has said, that a 4x10 configuration is the only way it should be done. I’ve nothing against stacking speakers myself. It gets the top one closer to ear height as Thom mentioned a while ago, and this is the main benefit of the configuration. However, as Protium also pointed out, the seven foot tall 8 x 10 highlights the shortcomings of insisting on a vertical layout no matter what. What counts is what works.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1025225' date='Nov 15 2010, 09:23 PM']I'll take the driver out and see if I can find visible evidence and/or see if I can trial a replacement tweeter to trial/test it.[/quote] Post a photo if you can. Somebody might recognize it.