stevie

By the way, the Basschat 12 isn't a kick back cab. It has been designed to have wide dispersion in both the horizontal and the vertical plane throughout its frequency range. So the mids and highs don't disappear when you're close to the cab and the player hears exactly the same bass sound as the audience. In other words, it functions as both a monitor for the player and as a full range cab for the audience. These are also the characteristics of the FRFR cabs discussed in this thread, and one of the key reasons why people like them so much.

The Fearless 112 is a cab with a kick back option that is designed on FRFR principles and isn't a budget offering.

Al, without wishing to derail this thread, I'd just say that I'm currently sorting out some flat pack kits that anyone who can assemble an IKEA wardrobe can make in a weekend. You do have a point that players in the UK seem to be reluctant to roll their own (unlike in the US). So I'm trying to make the whole build as easy as possible, with easy-assemble flat-packs and pre-built crossovers. In theory, all you need to build one of these is a screwdriver and some wood glue. To make the project more attractive to potential builders, I'm also working on branding - so that the finished product will look quite swish, and not in the slightest bit home-made. All of this is a part-time effort - so progress is a bit slower than I'd like, although I am getting some great help from a few fellow Basschatters. Off my soapbox now......

If you want a compact bass cab that you can hear clearly even when you're right in front of it - and isn't a wedge - the Basschat 12 that we're designing in another thread is the only one I know that can do this. The design is nearing completion and is open source, although you do need to assemble it yourself. It is also FRFR, and the thread contains measurements (with more to come) that prove this. These measurements are notably lacking from non-pro-PA companies.

The Barefaced is 15kg while the RCF ART 312 is 16.5kg (which was the first 12" model I came across). On the other hand, the RCF is a far more advanced design and you can buy one for £347. The Barefaced costs a tad under £1300 - more if you include the cover which you will definitely need. What makes this price comparison even more interesting is that Barefaced sell direct and are therefore trousering the retailer's margin. So if, like Bassman7755, you are prepared to accept an inferior product and fork out nearly £1,000 to save 1.5kg in weight, then you should follow Bassman's advice and do so.

A 15/3 should be fairly loud even with a modest amp. Did you find you needed 700W? Did the guys at Shermann measure the end result?

The cab's slightly smaller than the WinSD suggestion, Balcro - so power handling is a bit better than you've calculated. Plus, the port is a very efficient design that keeps going when most others are suffering from bad compression.

I'm with Chris B on this. And if nothing else, that disastrous grille design should set alarm bells ringing. It'll be interesting to read the opinions of those who dare to take the plunge.

I think you'll be surprised how potent this little cab is. If you wait until after the New Year, I'll send you mine to try. Keep it for a couple of weeks and decide for yourself. Then send it back to me. My band is quiet in January and I have a spare cab anyway should a surprise gig happen.

Luke, this cab is aimed at the owner of the newer class D amps producing 500W into 4 ohms and 300W into 8 ohms. Unless you run your amp flat out, there's not a huge difference between 300W and 165W - so I suspect you'd be fine. This cab will certainly go as loud with your amp as any other 12" cabinet out there. It will obviously not be as loud as a 2x12" 4-ohm cab though.

I can't recommend one particular midi keyboard from experience, but I just bought a used Roland A-49 and it gets very good reviews. I then noticed some ridiculous deals for it on eBay. Here: <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roland-A-49-Black-MIDI-Keyboard-Controller-Refurbished/123502421633?epid=2255527415&hash=item1cc1516681:g:0mwAAOSw8KJb9B2R:rk:5:pf:0>. That's less than half price from a dealer with a 12-month manufacturer's warranty. I paid more than that for mine. No drum pads though.

I'm using an Ashdown Rootmaster 500 at the moment. The driver itself is quite sensitive. From about 80 Hz up, It's at least a couple of dB more sensitive than the Kappaliter 12LF used in the Fearful and others. I've modelled them both in our cab. Blue is the Kappalite. Both drivers will go lower in a larger cabinet.

It's very nice to see you on here, agedhorse. I hope you'll stick around.

For those who like to roll their own, here's a layout for the crossover. Read together with the circuit diagram I posted earlier. I think that building a crossover might have been a step too far for a lot of people last time. So.....this time, I'm prepared to build and test a quantity of crossovers to get the ball rolling. All you'll have to do is screw the board down inside the cab and connect the wires. The six connections you can see on the bottom of the board are screw connectors for the wires. I'll precut the wires to size and crimp the connectors so that you won't have to solder anything. I'll even include a Speakon. As long as you cover the cost of the components, I'm happy. I'll do this for the first ten. Then you're on your own. If the flat packs work out, I'll be using a local CNC company. So I'll be able to collect and send a flat pack and a finished crossover out together to those wishing to build them, which will save on carriage. Building a crossover on a plywood board is a bit of a time consuming exercise. So if we have anyone out there who can produce fibreglass PCBs in small quantities (milled would be OK), please make yourself known.

It's nice to see some community input. Thanks, Richard. However, it looks as if I may have cracked the flat pack issue. I don't want to speak too soon, but will post more details when I have firm details.

That got me really excited this morning, Luke. I researched it and it looks like the 18mm version of that ply would have a similar stiffness to the 15mm poplar we're using at the moment. Although there's a cost penalty, it would cut the weight of our cab by 3 KG. That's a lot! So I phoned them up. The material is made by a Swiss company and, according to the UK supplier you mentioned, they have decided not to export to the UK in the future. They weren't sure why. Once the UK company has sold off its existing stocks, you won't be able to get hold of it any more. Interestingly, they said they were trialling an alternative plywood. That one is actually a bit stiffer than poplar, but would still cut the weight of our cab by about 1.5kg. I'm going to keep my eye on that, but I'd rather not take the risk of using an unkown type of plywood for the time being. All good information though.

Well the Barefaced does have the advantage that it has been designed specifically for bass, but if I were buying a powered cab for bass and could afford that kind of money, I wouldn't think twice: I'd go for the RCF. What about you?

I'll make some more measurements and post them tomorrow to give you all a better picture of how the cab performs. On the matter of flat pack cabs, I know that some of you are keen to get hold of some, but despite spending a lot of time on it, I'm struggling to find a competent cab builder. The ones I've been talking to either don't seem to know what they're doing (one was unable to source poplar ply!), or are so slow in responding to messages that they give the impression of being very inefficient. There are still a few possibles left on my list, but I'd prefer to deal with a company that's not half way across the country. The other option that's open to us is to have the CNC plans prepared so that any competent woodworking company with a CNC machine can work with them. Phil tells me that there are some Basschatters who produce those files for a living. If so, I'd appreciate if you would help us out. Marco (Ghostbass) is busy preparing technical drawings of the cab and I can supplement this with drawings of all the components, hole sizes, etc. that you would need. Can anyone help?

Here's the circuit for the crossover:

I think I pointed out the main weaknesses of the RCF 745 as I see them, Cameron, but I don't want to run it down. While it's not perfect, it's a great product and excellent value overall.

My next job is obviously to do a proper circuit board layout. For the time being, however, here is a measurement of the finished system. I'll post off axis and impedance curves another time - I did do them, I just didn't save them.

OK - next up is the crossover. I do the initial work in CAD, but that is followed by hours of plugging and unplugging components and listening. This is my little crossover corner after a hard session. The first crossover I did looked like this: I built it on a fibreglass PCB board I happened to have to hand. This is the crossover that John Chienmortbb and Phil heard when they came over for an afternoon's auditioning. However, I thought that I should try to simplify it a bit, and ended up with this one: The good news is that not only is that crossover simpler, it sounds noticeably better. It has just eight components, which is excellent when you consider that it is a fourth order crossover with CD horn correction.

I'm in two minds about this FRFR thing. The upside is that the systems are relatively uncoloured, which in my opinion is what you want from a bass guitar cab. Plenty of people disagree with that, but if I want colour I can always add it. If it's in the cab it's there all the time. The acoustic design of these boxes is also about 20/30 years ahead of what you get in a bass guitar cab. The other great thing about all of these active PA cabs is that you get such a lot for your money. Their pricing puts them in the same area of the market as boutiqe bass guitar cabs, but because they are mass market products (unlike boutique bass cabs), they offer you a much bigger bang for your buck. The other side of the coin is that they are jack-of-all-trades speakers. Although a lot of them handle bass, the cheaper ones are very limited, and even the expensive ones I've looked at aren't wonderful. For example, the RCF 745, which is considered by many (including me) to be a superb cab, comes in a plastic box. There is a video on YouTube in which a music dealer takes one apart and examines the components and build quality. He bangs on the plastic box and convinces himself how solid it is, but is sounds like a plastic bucket to me. And while the compression driver and horn are impeccable , the 15" driver has a pressed steel chassis, and if you look at RCF's driver specs, an xmax of less than 3mm. Finally (although I could go on), there is too much wall area in the porting arrangement and with bass guitar those ports will start compressing well before the system gets anywhere close to its limits. Just a few thoughts.....