stevie

I stopped using commercial cabs years ago. I'm currently using the self-built cab I have been describing in the Cab Diary Revisited thread. It's gone through a few iterations but the design concept is basically what I outlined in my post above. The bass driver I'm using now is the new neo Faital Pro 12PR320 together with a Celestion compression driver and constant directivity horn. I've nearly finished this particular version, which has been designed specifically to be lightweight, and will be continuing the thread as soon as it's ready so that anyone who wants to can build one. Straying a bit off topic......

You make a valid point. A midrange speaker is going to make any cab subjectively louder than a 12" driver on its own or one with the usual tweeter on top. It will also have more "punch" and clarity if implemented properly. This, as I'm sure you know, is directly connected to what's called the "power response", which is the total output of the speaker at all frequencies and at all listening angles. It's an aspect of cab design that is ignored by just about everyone making bass cabs, with a few exceptions including Greenboy. I've experimented with the 12 + midrange configuration but was never totally happy with it. I felt that a midrange speaker on its own didn't have enough highs off axis, and adding a constant directivity hf driver on top made the crossover very complex. I did complete a design with an Eminence 3012LF and a Celestion TF 0615MR self-contained midrange unit, which I could revisit and publish if anyone is interested, but I felt that a better solution was just a single crossover point with a high quality compression driver and constant directivity horn. I think Duke Lejeune is the only commercial builder to go down that route because 1) it's quite an expensive approach and 2) the costs incurred are not immediately apparent to the average cab buyer.

I agree. Depends on the 212 or 210 (or 1x15) though. This really is the crux of the matter - and not whether a 1x12 can go as loud as a 4x10 (which it can't). I find that my 1x12 is loud enough for any gig I play, including small outdoor ones. But sometimes it's just nice to work with a bigger speaker, and not everyone's bothered about portability.

It's the extra area and the reduced friction from the port sides (odd though that may sound). I'd put it at the front if you can - I'm not a great fan of rear porting for bass guitar cabs. 12mm spacing from the edge should be fine.

I take it that this personal attack is your way of avoiding answering my perfectly reasonable questions. Perhaps in future you should refrain from making claims that you can't back up.

Al, I would expect the VL210LNT to be more sensitive than the BB2 because of the greater cone area of the 2x10 drivers. Whether it is actually 100dB depends on how they have measured the cab, and Vanderkley don't go into any detail here (although 100dB doesn't sound unreasonable). If a manufacturer states the conditions of measurement - AES standard, for power handling as you mention - you know what you are dealing with and you can make comparisons. However, if the manufacturer doesn't say how they arrived at their figures, they are meaningless. Like the 127dB Chris quoted. The specs for Mesa Boogie's Subway cabs are a model of how to spec a bass cab.

If there is room to fit the 110mm port, it will handle quite a lot more power than two of the smaller ones - although it looks a bit tight from here and you don't want the port right in the corner.

It shouldn't take long with that!

Rated in the industry-standard way, the power handling of the BB2 is 400 watts. I'm afraid you need to be very careful if you're going to repeat the claims on the Barefaced website. Also, please explain how you get 127dB. Ashdown do give SPL figures. They are between 101 and 103dB @1m. So you can now tell us what their maximum output is. We're listening. And that's quite an interesting claim you're making, Chris, that Ashdown cabs can't handle their rated output. What do you base that on?

Sorry, fryer, it's LMC Audio: http://www.lmcaudio.co.uk/acatalog/LMC_Web_Catalogue_12__Drivers_53.html. - although they're not much cheaper when you add VAT. Plenty of cab designs on this very Basschat forum. In fact you're spoilt for choice. Start here:

The problem is the design of the driver: it's more like a guitar speaker than a bass guitar speaker. As Mottlefeeder said, you need to put it in a very large box to get any bass out of it, and when you do, it runs out of excursion very quickly. So it won't go very loud and is unlikely to keep up with your ATS cab. You should be looking for a driver with a decent excursion and a power handling of about 300 watts. The Beyma SM212 works well as a bass guitar speaker for about £70. You're unlikely to find anything better at a lower cost unless you pick something up used on eBay (not a bad idea). You can get all your bits and pieces from Blue Aran, but the Beyma is a lot cheaper directly from the Beyma distributor, LMS.

Much as I applaud any effort to DIY your gear, you really are wasting your time with that driver. Not to put too fine a point on it - it's rubbish for your particular purpose. Just trying to save you some grief.

Thanks guys. I'm going to give it a go, and I'll let you know how well it works.

The old bag in which I carry my amp, guitar stand, cables, tuner, mics, etc. is on its last legs. I've been looking around for something that would take a lightweight amp and all my bits and pieces - something with wheels could be good. The only music-specific wheeled bag I can find is the Protection Racket cabin bag at £110, which is a bit pricey. Does anyone use a normal cabin bag/trolley for their gear?

I think Trace is a yardstick for many people - not without some justification. Ashdown's efforts with lightweight amps over the years have been very hit and miss. I had a miBass 550 at one point and didn't keep it very long, and the less said about the jolly green giant amps the better - although you can't knock Ashdown for trying. At the said bassbash, we compared the Ashdown Retroglide with a really nice early Trace 150 head. The Trace had the heft (sorry!) and the Retroglide didn't. We then compared the Trace with the Ashdown RM500 I had just bought at the bash, and it sounded very close - the same "slam", if you like. I have no idea why the RM500 had "it" and the Retroglide didn't. A few days before the bash, Chienmortbb and I compared one of the RM500s (that Ashdown had kindly supplied for the bash) with my highly rated, US-built lightweight head that currently retails at close to a grand - and we both preferred the Ashdown. It's all subjective, of course. That's just my experience. So make your own minds up.

Don't forget to check out the Ashdown RM500 and RM800. I compared the former with an old but respected Trace Elliot head at a recent bass bash, and it was in no way inferior. It has a well considered feature set too.

Without checking, more than likely in an enclosure.

“My slight reservations are with the bottom end. Bass is tight,…” Siegfrid Linkwitz - Dipl.. Ing. (on his website) "The phrase "deep, clean and tight" comes to mind." Floyd Toole - Phd (in his book), ex head of acoustic research for the Harman Group (JBL, etc.) "... all other things being equal a sealed box often sounds tighter than a vented box and a vented box tighter than a high order bandpass." Tom Danley, R&D director of Danley Sound Labs on the AVS Forum website

Just out of interest, Kevin, do you remember the model number of the Sica 12 that Ashdown fitted?

Sorry about that.He certainly used to do solid amp state repairs. I guess he has now decided to limit himself to the more interesting work.

Actually, any speaker engineer will tell you that the thermal rating of the voice coil does affect driver performance. Why else would speaker manufacturers have spent so much time over the years trying to improve the power handling of the voice coil? Think kapton voice coils, high temperature glues, high temperature wire coatings, sophisticated cooling mechanisms, etc. Kevin, I'd guess that the 15" ceramic driver in your RM cab is underdamped, i.e. a bit loose and boomy, while the more expensive neo version is exerting more control over the bottom end. More bass doesn't necessarily mean better bass. Without measurements or proper data, however, nobody can tell you for sure what's happening.

Roland Lumby in Salford. Lovely guy and a genius with amplifiers. https://www.facebook.com/theampclinic/ {Edit] Also as honest as the day is long. He won't rip you off.

No need to alter the tuning.

The Beyma that Phil uses costs around £90 from Blue Aran now, although if you order it directly from the UK distributor it's under £70, which is great value. If you want to go lightweight, the neo Faital Pro 12PR320 is similar in performance and costs £128. If you're on a budget, the older version of the Celestion Pulse 12 , the B12-200X (which seems to have an identical specification), is currently selling for £45 at Watford Valves and Lean Business and is definitely a budget "best buy". If you go for the Faital Pro, you should be able to convert your cab at a later stage to the two-way design currently being finalised in the 12" Cab Diary Continued thread on here.

The great thing about this cab is that it is not restricted to that one Beyma driver (nice though it is). Others will work too - although it would be sensible to check with Phil before using any old driver.....