stevie

I'll see what I can do, Richard. The crossover information for the first version of the speaker is on page 4.

The drawing you need is the crossover for the Beyma SM212 and the P Audio 407 tweeter, which is attached to post # 1 of this thread. I did try to add the more complex crossover (for the Celestion compression driver) in the same place, but there seems to be a limit to the number of PDFs you can attach to one post. You can get all the parts from Blue Aran, although I doubt they will have every value in stock. If you have problems, send me a message and I'll see if I can put together a package with all the components for you. For the tag strip, look up "solder tag terminal strip" on eBay. The current link, which may change over time, is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-36-way-Solder-Tag-Terminal-Strip-on-Paxolin-Bakolite-Board-2-Strip-/132211098217?hash=item1ec8654269:g:MvgAAOSwBLlVfzCU Just as a matter of interest, I did originally design a simple crossover with just a few components on the tweeter and nothing on the bass unit, which is the de facto configuration on most commercial cabs. However, the slighly more complex version with a few components on the bass unit sounded so much better that I didn't even bother mentioning it in the thread.

I can't make it to a pub gig with my blues band on Saturday 17th. Anyone like to stand in? I can send a set list and some recordings, but the songs are fairly standards blues numbers. Please get in touch asap.

The big problem with research is that it has the capacity to reveal things you would rather remain ignorant of, or don't understand, or don't know what to do with. A tricky one.

Yes, that's a really useful comparison, although when he goes into more detail it gets a bit confusing. The most useful information is in the first minute. Although I've owned the SPB-2 and SPB-3, I never liked them much and have always stuck with the SPB-1. I don't hear anything from the more expensive Antiquity that would make me change either. Maybe another brand, but I think Duncan got it right the first time.

Our singer couldn't stretch that far either (unfortunately) but it's not a bad idea to know what to aim for.

The Altos are unbeatable for the money, but you owe it to yourselves to audition the RCF ART712A. Twice the price, but worth the difference if you can afford it.

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1495003092' post='3300268'] My priorities in a cab: 3: Less than 13" deep so it can fit where it needs to under the stairs. [/quote] Which just goes to show how different everyone's needs are. One of my requirements is for a cab that will fit under the piano in the dining room.

Phil, I appreciate the Ciare measurement is a bit difficult to read because both curves intersect, but the whole point of these measurements is to demonstrate that drivers start to beam at a predictable frequency. The graphs show that the Barefaced driver rolls off exactly as you would expect it to do, despite the claims by the manufacturer that they have somehow controlled the dispersion by using a secret sauce that raises the rollof frequency. If anyone wonders why I am pursuing this, it's because I don't think a commercial company should be able to come onto this forum and make outrageous claims for their products, particularly when they refuse to prove those claims when asked to do so. I also have a low tolerance for snake oil and cow poop. Just a reminder of the claim, which went like this (and was repeated several times in various guises).

This is the amp that persuaded me that guitarists didn't need valves, although it's still a minority opinion.

Dispersion is a really important issue in sound reinforcement - so you do want to know that the designer of your PA system and your floor monitor gave it some attention. Bass cabs are a slightly different kettle of fish. If I were in the OP's position, I wouldn't be much concerned by it: I can hear myself through my monitors and the audience can hear me through the PA. Job done. On the other hand, if your monitors just run vocals, you don't put the bass through the PA, and you prefer to use a single small cab, then a cab with good midrange dispersion could make a difference to what you and your audience hear. For me, that means a smaller driver dedicated to the midrange, which gives you the added benefit of mid tones that are cleaner and clearer than you can get from a larger driver on its own (but there is more than one way to skin a cat).

I see you have homed in on a completely irrelevant minor issue. Look at the off-axis responses. Unless you are completely blind, you can see that they are very similar. The main thing is that both drivers roll off at about 1.2kHz exactly as the theory predicts. The Barefaced driver does not have any magical dispersion properties.

Quite a few manufacturers publish the off-axis response of their drivers (I can think of 18sound and JBL off the top of my head), but it isn’t really necessary because everyone knows that cones of the same size exhibit more or less the same rolloff characteristics. As a rule of thumb, speaker drivers start beaming at a frequency whose wavelength is equal to the diameter of the cone. For a 12” driver that would be around 1250 Hz. The curves show that this is in fact what is happening. The off-axis curve is the one we’re interested in; the on-axis curve is just for reference.

Thanks Steve. I didn't think there was any put down either. I was sort of apologising for uploading information that would go over many people's heads. Jass, time was a bit limited and I was only interested in measuring the driver, which was the one used in the thread title. So I installed the drivers in an identical cabinet in order to carry out measurements that were comparable. In fact, it was the Basschat DIY prototype cab. The measurements were of the 12" drivers connected directly to an amp. I'd be very happy to measure some commercial cabinets and to put the information on the forum in a standard format for comparison purposes - perhaps in the Reviews section. I did actually put out a call for some cabs at one stage during the Basschat DIY thread so that we could have a quality commercial cabinet to compare with - but nobody responded. I leave amplifiers to the many qualified experts in that field. I am certainly not one of them.

Nice to see you back in the thread, Dood.

Back to the subject of dispersion..... Over the weekend I was lucky enough to become a proud, albeit very temporary, owner of an actual Barefaced. Soooooo.... I thought I’d do some quick and dirty measurements of the 12” XN driver compared to another similar driver to see if the claims for its superior off-axis performance held up. I’ll try to keep comments to a minimum, as I think the measurements speak for themselves. For the record, they were taken at a distance of 1 metre, in a cabinet 33cm wide with the driver at a height of 1.3 metres from the floor. Measurement software was Liberty Audiosuite. The response is anechoic down to about 300Hz. I took measurements on axis, and at 30 and 45 degrees off axis. As the 45-degree ones don’t really provide any extra information, I’ll keep things simple and not show them. Here’s the frequency response of the Barefaced driver on axis (top) and at 30 degrees off axis (lower). Nice smooth response apart from the wide bump just above 2kHz, which deserves further investigation. The upper -6dB point is at 3.5kHz, which means that, without any crossover on the LF, the crossover point must at around 3.5kHz. Note the off-axis response. This is the same measurement of a Ciare 12.00 NDW. Unfortunately no longer made, it was a standard production model (i.e. not OEM). It has a 4-inch, 20mm long coil. It’s a bit bumpier than the Eminence, but its on-axis response extends to 4kHz, which is where its main upper resonance is. Back to the Barefaced. This is the cumulative spectral decay plot of the Barefaced driver, taken to reveal what’s going on between 2 and 3kHz. I suspect not everyone will know how to read this, but it’s here for those who do.

I guess customers breaking stuff and sending it back as faulty must be a common problem for any of these companies (not saying you did that, of course). So I can see them being wary. I've dealt with most of these computer parts companies and found them all to be quite efficient. But I understand your position, and I'm sure I'd be the same.

Just to expand on that report a bit, the two cabs we compared were identical apart from a slight difference in the tuning. Below 100Hz both drivers measured exactly the same. The Kappalite remained flat from 100Hz up, however, while the Beyma kept rising to about 200Hz where it flattened off at a level a few dBs higher than the Eminence. So although the Beyma and the Eminence extended equally low in the bass, it sounded like the Kappalite went lower and was fatter because the upper bass wasn't as prominent. That certainly wasn't obvious just listening to them. The other thing we noticed, which we didn't have time to pursue, was that the Kappalite system actually sounded a bit louder than the Beyma system on bass guitar, even though the measurements showed that it wasn't. I suspect that could be connected with the off-axis performance of the 6" midrange driver.

Yes, that's always the risk.

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1494438677' post='3296022'] Well after a year I'm not expecting them to pay anything. I see the whole thing as a learning experience. [/quote] If they don't pay up, the next step is to get the bailiffs in. It would be a waste to spend a year on this and then not follow through. That way, you get your money *and* a learning experience.

What's the problem with Scan? I've been dealing with them for over 10 years and they've been fine. The Queen even buys her Pcs from them.