stevie

Lots of claims with no actual proof as usual, Alex. Two 12" drivers will start to beam below 1kHz and there's no amount of marketing hype that can fix that. I notice Jason only lives a few miles away from me. I'd be quite happy to measure his cab and we'll see exactly what kind of off-axis response they have. What exactly are the problems with using a midrange driver, Alex? Bergantino, Vanderkley, Greenboy and Duke Le Jeune seem to be happy with them.

I was talking about 2 x12 tweetered cabs in general but the Barefaced one is no different. I wasn't commenting on your post, Dan, as I don't disagree with anything in it. I am just coming at this from a slightly different angle, i.e. the off-axis performance.

The problem with a 2x12" + tweeter configuration is that, even if they are flat on axis, they will exhibit a large midrange suckout off axis unless the HF unit is crossed at a fairly low frequency, which is not the case here. Above-axis suckouts are going to be a problem too. A well designed PA cab that can handle bass guitar (which probably means a 15" bass driver) could be your best option, or alternatively, look for a bass cabinet with a midrange driver. The latter will not give you the ultimate sparkle you can get from a tweeter but it should give you a decent power response at bass guitar frequencies.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1493209128' post='3286494'] I have four different Barefaced cabs and I'm getting worried. How on earth can I come up with a consistent motor vehicle analogy that will neither break down under stress (or on the A312) nor attract The Wrath Of Stevie? [/quote] Tell us about the time you drove all four of your cars at the same time, Jack! (See, car analogies really are rubbish!)

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1493128608' post='3285856'] Sorry Stevie I was just about to use the car analogy I don't think I can stop myself..... [/quote] For goodness' sake, Phil, show some restraint.

Maybe you could work it out and let the rest of us know.

Who was the carrier?

[list] [*]Near total silence - 0 dB [*]A whisper - 15 dB [*]Normal conversation - 60 dB [*]A lawnmower - 90 dB [*]A car horn - 110 dB [*]A rock concert or a jet engine - 120 dB [*]A gunshot or firecracker - 140 dB [/list] Now they do.

Could we please dispense with the stupid and patronising car analogies? Thank you!

The OP expressed a point of view and put it up for discussion. What's wrong with that? Seems fair enough to me.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1493029201' post='3284887'] I'm sure we're all familiar with this type of chart: [/quote] Not from bass equipment manufacturers we aren't.

[quote name='eddiehoffmann' timestamp='1491840655' post='3275791'] I would be really interested to know which boutique companies you think are doing it right. I still don't want any tweeters, properly done or otherwise, anywhere near my cabs, but I'm curious to know what are these companies and how the differ from companies such as Markbass, Aguilar... Please note I'm not being sarcastic. I'm literally just curious about it. [/quote] If I were to name names, the fanboys would be on me like a ton of bricks, especially as I can't claim to have have examined every bass cab on the market. So I'll have to pass on that one. But there's nothing to stop anyone posting a photo of the interior of their cabinets if they think the manufacturer has done a great job.

It's very difficult to diagnose remotely, but it sounds very much like a faulty tweeter. The other problem that could give you that kind of noise is a loose connection. So check the connections to the tweeter and make sure they are sound, with no frayed wires anywhere.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1491671138' post='3274704'] Congratulations Stevie, that's impressive. You have to try it with vocals [/quote] Thanks Phil. It sounds really nice with vocals, Phil. Like a very good floor monitor. By the way, I located some more measurements of this system, which I will post as soon as I can.

A picture is worth a thousand words, WoT.

If you read the thread, you will see that I listed a number of alternative drivers which will work in this cabinet. Have a look at post#180. If you want to build the more advanced (and more complicated) version of the design, you will have to use the specified drivers, i.e. the Beyma SM212. I've tried a few different speakers in the cabinet, although none that are readily available. I feel it is important to point out, however, that this is a ported cabinet. You can't just leave out the port.

A real quality review, which clearly took a lot of time and effort. Thanks for that.

Well said, Dood. However, the companies that are doing it right are a lot rarer than you might think. One, maybe two boutique companies, I'd say. The others talk the talk and make extravagant claims, but have exactly the same attitude as Markbass. I think the fact that you can improve a bass cabinet from one of the industry's prestige manufacturers by taking out one of the drivers speaks volumes about the products that we bass players are being served up nowadays. Still, these manufacturers want to stay in business, and why should they spend money on the internals when bass players continue to give their products rave reviews? Cost cutting doesn't seem to have done Markbass any harm.

I'd like to say a big public thank-you to John, aka Chienmortbb, for his invaluable help in getting this project together. Not only did he build and supply the prototype cab for me to work with, but he also supplied the drivers. And he burned the candle at both ends to get a working system together (just) in time for the SW Bass Bash. I hope you DIY builders appreciate the effort he has made on your behalf. I did promise you some measurements on this second system, but what with the last-minute rush to get John's cab ready for the SW Bass Bash, I forgot to save a full set of measurements. I did save a normal frequency response measurement, however, and you can see it below. All the off-axis measurements looked good and the impedance didn't dip below 7.3 ohms - I just didn't save any. The response curve is at a distance of 2 metres. It's impressively flat, thanks to a couple of non-obvious tricks in the crossover and the fact that the horn mates well with the compression driver. [IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/208zh5h.jpg[/IMG]

[quote name='The Shrek' timestamp='1491409735' post='3272829'] Sorry guys but I am way out of my depth. I will have to opt for the most basic and simple way to get a 12" and a 5" in one cab. I really enjoy the box building part, but the techy stuff makes me want to slash my wrists. [/quote] Michael, just try a 12uF cap (polypropylene is best) in series with the 5" driver. I'm guessing you're going to be using the Faital Pro 5, as I don't know any others. Don't forget to give it its own cabinet of between 1 and and 1.5 litres and fill it with wadding. As it is likely to be louder than the 12, you'll probably need an L-pad attenuator to quieten it down a bit. Get a 100W one, wire it according to the instructions and set the level by ear. Connect the 12" speaker directly to the input. I can't make it any simpler than that. But I still think you'd be better off building one of the designs in this thread.

Well, at the risk of boring people to death, I can tell you what little I know. I have an electrically powered winding machine, quite ancient, but it's a proper winding machine with an electronic counter and cutoff. So it's not really DIY and I've used it in the past to produce thousands of coils for commercial speakers. As far as potting is concerned, I use the same air-drying lacquer you would use to finish your pine chest of drawers. I apply it to the outside of the coil. It only penetrates through a few windings but works well enough to prevent unwinding when you're handling the coil, which is the aim. The bobbin keeps the rest of the coil held tightly together. That's always been good enough for me, although there are better ways of doing it. The most popular is to use enamelled wire coated with a temperature sensitive adhesive. You wind your coil and pass a large electrical current through the coil to heat it up and glue the windings together. You need to do that if you don't use a bobbin. Then there is vacuum dipping, where the coil is suspended in a tank of varnish and a vacuum applied. The coils are then transferred to an oven to bake. None of this is DIY though. I'd certainly advocate using wood varnish for your occasional DIY coils.

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1491324646' post='3272148'] BTW, I'd like to see some more discussion on DIY coil winding, and even more so on properly potting or otherwise binding the finished coils. [/quote] We're a bit nerdy on here, but I don't think we're *that* nerdy.