stevie

If you raise your cab off the floor too much, you will lose the bottom end lift you get from having the cab close to the floor. You might like to try tilting the front of the cab so that the speaker is pointing towards you. You'll hear yourself more clearly that way.

[quote name='sbrag' timestamp='1414501622' post='2589861'] completly agree only that mine is still original. Best value basses out there. [/quote] Because they are relatively cheap now, they are ideal for modding, but I believe they were more expensive than USA Precisions when they were new.

Anyone arriving at this thread at some time in the future hoping for sensible suggestions for repairing/upgrading their 2 x 10" cab is going to find a lot of conflicting and frankly erroneous information. I'd like to try to fix that if I can. Let's quickly look at the three most useful suggestions made so far: the Celestion BL 10-200X, the Beyma SM110, and the Fane Sovereign 10-300. Each of these would meet the OP's requirements for a good quality, reasonably priced 10-inch chassis. I think £10 separates the cheapest from the most expensive. So the price is right and they are very close in terms of performance too. If you model each of these in a 30-litre cab tuned to 50Hz (which is how I would expect them be used in practice) you get the following. [IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/np2m2u.jpg[/IMG] I'm not even going to label the individual drivers - that's how close the small signal level performance is – at least below 200Hz where the modelling program is accurate. The reason the curves are different above 200Hz is that their sensitivities are slightly different. The Fs of these drivers is 43Hz, 58Hz and 73Hz, by the way. If we compare the power handling of the three drivers, it is again very close, at least in theory. To be sure we are comparing like with like, xmax must have been measured in the same way for each driver. Like Eminence, Fane do not publish the usual figure for voice coil overhang, preferring instead to use the more generous Klippel-derived xmax. However, (unlike Eminence) they do at least state the magnetic gap depth and coil winding height, from which we can deduce that the overhang is 4mm – exactly the same as the Beyma and the Celestion. In our test box, all three drivers need to travel 5mm to handle 200W of power. [IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/2wn0eg3.jpg[/IMG] Given that a properly designed power speaker will cope with a signal that drives it 25% beyond xmax and that the signal from the bass guitar is not a sine wave anyway, I'd say that the two hundred watt drivers meet their spec. without too much problem and I wouldn't worry too much about whether the Fane handles 300 watts or not, as these speakers will be normally used in multiples anyway. Each of these three has its plus points: the Beyma has a cast chassis, the Fane has a generous power rating, and the Celestion has a very smooth midband response. There is, however, one particular figure hidden away in the Thiele-Small parameters that would make me favour one of these if I had to make a choice from the spec sheets alone. As for the two drivers Bill suggested, these are subwoofers and not suitable for use with bass guitar on their own. If you check out the manufacturer's curves you'll see that the midrange frequency responses looks like the hind leg of a donkey: that's because they were designed for maximum excursion at the exclusion of virtually anything else. The Eminence 3010LF driver costs £200 - four times the price of the others. So it's hardly a fair comparison (let's not even get into the fact that the comparison is also based on two different xmax measurements with boxes tuned to different frequencies which skews the results). Two of these Eminence drivers will cost £400. Then you need a midrange driver and a crossover, which will add at least another £100. If you had £500 to spend on drivers, which clearly the OP doesn't, there are better ways. My order of preference, having only heard the Celestion, would be Beyma, Celestion, Fane, although that could possibly change on audition. I hope that helps.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1414254787' post='2587589'] Stevie strikes again Now I'm going to have to run the models and investigate a bit more. I'd looked at Qts and Fs done a quick calculation of f3 the -3dB point and left it at that, dismissing a speaker that starts to roll off albeit gently at 150Hz ish. To a certain extent it depends upon whether you think 3dB is significant or not. I think it is, as I find in listening tests that the balance between high and low frequencies is something we really notice. It's also true that the 3012HO has a gentle roll off due to a moderately low Q. Comparing it with another speaker would yield a different result. I'd also be interested to know what size box you modeled Stevie. I'm only getting a plot this shape for the Celestion in a fairly large box. [/quote] Phil, from memory, I used a 35-litre box for the 10 and a 50-litre box for the 12, both tuned to 50Hz. That's pretty close to optimum in both cases. The comparison wasn't with the 3012HO but with the 3012LF.

Thanks for the clarification. This is already becoming quite informative.

You need a proper parametric equalizer. I'll be putting one of these on the For Sale board later today when I've sorted out a photo: http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHPEQ2200 It works as a standalone bass preamp as well.

True, but that's why I said 'modify' - maybe bump them up from 12V. Or maybe that's impossible. I'm just here to learn .

This is probably a daft question, but couldn't you modify a PC switched power supply? They are relatively cheap and well proven.

[quote name='ebenezer' timestamp='1414509864' post='2590023'] I would agree with lemmywinks..the traveller 151p along with the ny 151p is the way to go..modern 15 inch drivers now have a half decent midrange along with good bottom end wallop,plus markbass drivers are made by b & c(pressed steel basket)but still good... swapping that tweeter out is a good move me thinks!!! [/quote] Markbass has been fitting Chinese copies of B&C drivers for some time.

I'm with grandad. Assuming the cab is up to it (it looks like it but it might need a bit of tweaking), the best thing you could do it put a premium quality Italian 15-inch driver in there. Something by B&C, Faital, 18sound, RCF. It will cost you between two and three hundred pounds. Doing that will give you a box that will vastly outperform any commercial cab you can buy. I know you won't though.

Subscribed (as they say).

Mine have been on my bass for about 5 years and I don't feel the need to change them.

I've got a BB1100S, which I picked up secondhand for £150 from eBay - a few years ago now. The neck is the nicest thing about it, a bit thinner than a Jazz I think, and very easy to play. I've changed all the parts on it, the most important upgrade being a set of Hipshot lightweight tuners, which fixed the head droop nicely and brought the weight down a fair bit. I've tried more expensive basses, some a lot more expensive, but don't think I've played anything I like better. It does a great Precision sound. The only thing I haven't swapped out is the preamp which, as far as I can tell, is perfectly transparent. The three-band eq is great for on-stage tweaking, and I rarely have to touch the amp during a gig. I used to have a very early JV Precision as well, which is not probably worth around a grand now, but I sold it and kept the Yammy.

Sorry guys, you're just wrong. I've run the figures for the Celestion 10 through a simulation program and you'll find the curve below. So that we have some kind of yardstick for comparison purposes, I've also simulated the Eminence Kappalite 3012LF. For those reading this thread who aren't familiar with the Kappalite, it is considered by many to be one of the best woofers of its kind, used in the Fearful range of boxes as well as the Barefaced Big Baby and the AudioKinesis Thunderchild. You won't find it in many mainstream commercial cabinets as it was designed purely as a woofer and needs a midrange driver to work properly. Nobody has complained that this driver does not go low enough. Ever. Its published Fs is 37Hz, although I measured even lower, at 34.5Hz. So, how does the Celestion BL10 with its Fs of 73Hz fare against the big, bad, fat Eminence woofer? [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/24ls8xk.jpg[/IMG] Well, there's not a lot in it. Between 40 and 50Hz they are neck and neck. The Eminence has about 3dB more output between 60 and 100Hz, which will be noticeable although not staggeringly so. Bear in mind that the Eminence is a 12" driver in a cabinet 50 percent bigger than the Celestion's. At high power the Eminence wins, but add another Celestion 10 and the balance moves strongly towards the Celestion. By no stretch of the imagination could this speaker be described as lacking output below 100Hz. The Beyma looks interesting. With its cast chassis and slightly lower price, it looks like better value than the Celestion. It won't go lower than the Celestion though, and it probably won't handle as much power. Still, if I were in the market, I might be tempted to go with Phil's suggestion. Anyway, let me make the point that there is a bit more to Thiele and Small than drawing diagrams with WinISD.

You can't make any kind of judgement on a speaker on the basis of a single T/S parameter. That's a nicely specified driver for bass guitar, as you would expect from Celestion.

It's a very nice driver - works best in multiples of 2. If you've got a good price you won't be disappointed.

This does seem to be a British thing. I remember when Japanese were buying Sony, the Germans were buying Braun – we were buying Amstrad. In defence of Barefaced, I think many people are prepared to forgive their shortcomings because they are so lightweight.

Why would the Manchester Bass Lounge know any more than the members who have already commented?

It must be the UK. It's the only country where people defend poor quality. I believe some people actually paid good money for Reliant Robins and Austin Metros - but at least they were cheap. The only way Alex is going to improve his product and stay in business is if he receives and accepts valid criticism.

Nice work! My only criticism would be that the backplate (and plastic jacks) don't match the quality of the rest of it.

Sounds like you're in luck, flyfisher. Have a look at the 8-inch drivers on the Blue Aran site. This one: http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PAUE8200N&browsemode=manufacturer is very nice if you want to go for the lightweight option. Good price too, and it takes a lot of hammer. I could lend you one to try if we can sort the logistics out.

I can't find any specs for the speakers anywhere. As it's a complete system, it's very likely that they are 4 ohms as you suspect, which makes it difficult to replace the driver with something equivalent. You could always take a driver out and check - just in case. The impedance will be marked on the driver. If it is 8 ohms, there are plenty of relatively inexpensive drivers available from companies like P.Audio.

That's a lot of money for a pair of 8" drivers. You could buy a superior, modern neo 8" driver for less than that, but the 4-ohm impedance is problematic. A recone would probably cost half as much as a replacement driver and may be your best bet. Ask the reconer to tell you what caused the damage. They will be able to tell when they have removed the old cone/coil.

Nice to see a company taking ownership of what they make. It's all too rare nowadays.