Steff

Can you pass the links please? I was looking myself to help explain my point but only found one.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388809194' post='2326374'] Do you really think it's worth £700? I'll send her a message right away 'Whatever you do don't sell it for less than £700 Lucy!'. [/quote] Well I left with the impression that's really close to what you've done mate. That's what caused the whole 4 pages of discussing. Doesn't matter what I think it's worth, for me is more important what is realistic. But yeah I see it possible to happen if a music trader buys it, refurbishes it himself/his luthier/ and displays it for £700. But that doesn't necessarily mean it will sell for £700. There's a lot of basses advertised here and they're selling for commission in a certain shop, so I've seen basses here for 1600 listed there for 1900... I was only saying by wrongly evaluating the bass you've broken a deal. And yes Billy, for me that's exactly what ebay is. With the exception I don't care if the seller is clueless or not. If they are selling something and they are lazy to spend an hour for a research, it's not my fault. But regardless, rare gems are usually spotted by more than one buyer so it usually ends in a normal auction way according to the market demand at the moment. I am very happy when I find something for a bit less then the usual price and I got the money to buy it. That makes my life as a working musician a tad easier.

Wait, we haven't got the heavy artillery out yet! I personally mean no offence and haven't felt any coming my way from Simon's posts. Sorry if it felt like I've crossed any lines. Point taken.

By the way here's a scenario: They bring the bass to a repair shop, get a £200 repair quote and go for it hoping to get closer to the dreamed £700 They list it on ebay and the auction ends at £500 (won't be surprised with the tight market at the moment) They end up with £300 profit and a lot of hassle and an actual loss because I think the bass would have sold for about £400 in its current shape. How about that?

Let's put it that way, I'm not ignoring neither questioning truth and morale. Yes, let them know it's a special Squier. What I am questioning is incompetent evaluating and interfering a sale. No you have no right to tell them this bass' real value is £700 I can see another one of those listings where the bass is listed for a looong time with a buy now option only. There's already one like that on ebay which has been listed continuously since April 2013. Current BIN price is £899 and I can see it's already been readjusted 3 times. Even in the great shape it is, I don't see it happening. Maybe the seller has been "tipped" he's got a treasure there... It's the same with the Aria bass on gumtree that's being relisted every month for almost half a year now, first price was about £1400 if I remember correct... he's gone down to £900 at the moment and with the tempo it'll take him another year to sell... another misguided treasure owner. So please restrain from harmful advices, that's all I wanna say. Never questioned anything else.

Mate I've never questioned the fact he told her it's a JV which is more valuable than a common Squire. I am questioning the fact he's told them a certain price they should sell it for. Which they will never get. If it was a gumtree ad with a stated price of 50 quid, then ok, but this is an ebay auction. It was already heading to the expected for the condition price range. So no.

1. I never thought it's a scam, and there was only a couple of people in the beginning assuming it might be. They didn't join the arguing so that's an irrelevant point 2. She is a newbie and she doesn't know as she is selling on behalf of someone but the OWNER (and this is the 4th time I'm saying this so you're clearly not reading me) knows as he refused offers and decided to let the auction end (which your defendant didn't really allow to happen) and he CLEARLY knew what he's got as he is a former bassist from what I get. So your second point is wrong too. 3. If the basschater in question had left the auction running in peace, the bass would have sold for I guess a fair price as there was over a day left with £200 current bid. Everyone who has any experience with ebay knows the last minute is insanely intense and the price could go up a lot. Last I had it with a '64 fender jazz pickup that was £100 at the start of the last hour and it sold for £250 so neither of you actually knows how much it would have sold for if gjones hadn't interfere. Your points are based on assumptions and shifting the focus away from the real facts. They are: "She" is just a shop, "He" is a bass player The bass is in crap condition You DON'T know how much it would have sold for You DON'T know how much it's worth now or after a refurb (that'll be at least a couple hundred looking at the photos) The last GREAT condition Squier precision JV that was sold here for £650. Do you keep insisting that telling the seller the bass is worth £700 is a good idea? I can't see how. I only saw someone breaking a deal by advising wrong and unchecked opinion. So please don't tell me that is honesty.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1388617647' post='2324189'] Maybe she took my advice and ended it early, if it didn't looked like she wasn't going to get a decent price for it. I said that, even in the manky condition that it was in, it was worth £500. Given a clean and a set of strings up to £700. She seemed, from the emails I recieved, that she just genuinely didn't have a clue. [/quote] He doesn't know if this bass could ever sell for £700. Or if it could sell for £500 in current condition. He's in no position to advise such thing. This has nothing to do with honesty. The OWNER of the bass knows what he's selling as I pointed out but gjones has mislead him and broke the deal. This is wrong. Top shape Squier JVs are for sale for £700-800 and I mean shiny as they've just left the production line. And they don't sell that well. Please stop calling this act "a honesty" because it's nothing but messing with people, advising them "expert" opinions... This is some kind of misunderstood idea of justice. Please, people with extreme sense of honesty, go write emails to the government about the high taxes, prices of electricity and gas, well car insurance is definitely a rip off, anyone who had the misfortune to deal with them companies will confirm, are you writing to them or complaining about it to the ombudsman? Now that'll be genuine complaint. Please all good samaritans focus your energy this way instead of giving wrong hope to sellers and breaking deals for buyers by "expertly" evaluate second hand basses or judge the current market. This is no honesty. This is some wrong ambition and simple incompetence.

No, he has told him how much he should sell it for. How is that a honesty? This is pointless.

It's out of place mate. It's not honesty, it's an assumption. He doesn't know if this bass could sell for £500-700 if polished. The market is very tight at the moment. Very few people are buying. So we aren't talking of honesty here, but for an assumption presented as an expert opinion that messed up a deal. I am a big fan of honesty.

I've said enough to make my point, if you don't wanna read my posts or think about what I'm saying then there's no point of this Peace Steff

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1388799152' post='2326320'] You are criticising him then? [/quote] Yes I am because of everything I've said so far.

Just a question to you guys, to conclude my point as this is getting a bit too much already... Please answer honestly to yourselves, not to me. I have my answer. If you were interested in buying such bass and you've won the audition for let's say £350, would you then contact the seller saying "Listen, this bass is worth £500 so that's why I am gonna pay you more"? I wouldn't. I don't have a money tree growing in my back yard. If I had won the lottery, then maybe yes, I would do such charity. If anyone has excess money, please buy me a bass. I will put it to good use as I gig 3-6 days per week for my money. But please don't spoil other people's potential deals and then try to convince me "this is the right thing to do". No way.

No mate, you aren't criticising gjones, you are criticising the rest of us who don't agree with what he's done. Of course she has no clue what she's selling. On the other hand, as I've pointed out already, the OWNER of the bass on who's behalf she's selling it, has an idea as he refused to take the offers and decided to wait for the auction to end. Now someone tells him this bass is actually worth £700 if polished. OK, good luck with the sale then and good luck to anyone who pays £700. I don't see it happening. So the whole outcome of the "honesty" and "good advice" is as I said messin up with people and wasting people's time. If gjones hadn't interfered, someone (possibly a fellow basschater) would have bought himself a nice restoration project for about £350 which I think is the real value of THIS exact bass. As they say "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". What a fine example this thread is.

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1388789890' post='2326224'] When it was established that in fact she had no idea what she was selling, and was likely to sell it at a fraction of what it was worth, a BC member then gets flamed for telling her what the true position is. [/quote] Are you sure £500-700 is "the true position"? I'm most definitely not. I think he has mislead her. Caused her to end the auction and because of that a fellow basschater lost a possible deal on a battered JV. That's how I see it. Nothing to do with being honest or dishonest. More like messing up two or more people.

If you check the listing better you will see where she states she sells on behalf of a friend who obviously is a former bass player as she says "It was fine when he last played it". You will also see where she's been offered to end the auction early but her friend refused to do it. So her friend, the former bass player obviously has an idea what he's selling. She is just listing the item.

Great thanks mate. Funny as this one looks genuinely old but I now recall all the Hofners I've seen have two knobs with 3 sliders indeed... A vintage copy perhaps?

How did you guys knew? I know nothing about vintage Hofners but I'm just curious .

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1388758763' post='2325687'] Are you interested in buying it? If not, posting that comment seems a bit self-contradictory. [/quote] In that spirit why don't we all start contacting sellers telling them how cheap they sell and lift the prices of our tools (yes tools as I do music for a living) to unreasonable or unaffordable levels? That is why I think it's wrong and that is why I think I should express my opinion here. Sorry don't mean to sound harsh or offending but to me this is just very wrong.

The thread has become more or less a discussion whether it's right or wrong to tell the seller he is selling cheap so in that sense no, I don't think it's self-contradictory at all since we are discussing it. And after all by saying what I think I don't fail anyone's potential deal, do I? I think you might have misunderstood my point. My opinion here won't have any deal braking consequences for anyone.

...Forgot to mention... Do you actually know what this bass costs the seller? Probably nothing, or near nothing. So whatever they would have sold it for it would have been a profit to them and potentially a benefit to a lucky fellow bass player. They might have picked it up on a wholesale, inherited it or just acquired it in some way that costed them pennies. When I bought my Alembic Epic V fretless on here a few years ago from Chris, I paid £600. That was the price he wanted, that's what he paid and he was nice enough to pass it on without seeking a profit. Well the bass was worth twice that. I really wouldn't want someone to start convincing him he shouldn't sell it for less than let's say £1200 a day before I went to Newcastle to buy it. Whoops just saw she's selling on behalf of a friend who might have been a bass player. Maybe true, maybe not... But still since she's been asking his decision on whether to end the auction early or accept someone's offer, then they don't seem that clueless to me. So she has absolutely no idea about the bass apart from "it's in a bad state and "couldn't get it to work but might be alright with some TLC", but they are still refusing offers and don't want to end the auction early... I would personally stay away from that (the business part I mean)

The way I see it - she will relist the bass with a high starting price or a high reserve, it won't sell, then some music shop or trader will contact her with a £350-400 offer, will buy it and then display it in their shop for £700. There goes the chance of every bass player who was hoping to get an affordable quality instrument. (I am not interested in this bass) I would personally stay out of other people's business especially if I am not interested in buying. Especially if I don't know the state of the goods for sale. I think the only appropriate case to contact someone is to warn them of a scam/not genuine product. I think this bass would have sold for appropriate price considering the state of the market at the moment (post Xmas/NYs). Just my thoughts.