discreet

[quote name='upside downer' timestamp='1449440916' post='2923630'] This is 2015. What's your point? Does good music have a sell-by date? [/quote] +1 Clearly it does not, judging by the amount of orchestras still covering Mozart tunes.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1449444481' post='2923659'] I'm a product of the 60s. I have to have a drummer. [/quote] Is that a new thing or an old thing, though..? Western swing appeared in the 1920s and bluegrass in the 1940s... But I do agree that for true rock 'n' roll you do need a drummer.

[quote name='Johnm93' timestamp='1449433874' post='2923523'] Yes, of course we do. He has a van... [/quote]

That is amazing. A very early big plate. Me want! I will watch with interest. Thanks for posting.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1449406839' post='2923209'] We definately need a drummer, and one playing live at that - no way our music would sound anywhere near what it`s meant to, even if playing along to backing tracks. But some genres, well I`ve seen bands with those beat-box thingys and the sound hasn`t been lacking due to not having a full kit. [/quote] Oh God Lozz, there's no way your band could do without a drummer! Punk rock without drums isn't punk rock as far as I'm concerned. I think you'd be hard pressed to play even country rock without drums. But there are definitely some types of music that can be as good, if not better, without the madman at the back.

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1449404949' post='2923177'] I would seriously take issue with your comment about folk/roots musicians being less sophisticated technically - most of the most talented, technically adept musicians I've ever seen & heard have been folk/roots players. [/quote] Fair point, I'm finding it hard to adequately explain what I meant by that. I'll think about it and get back to you.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1449403923' post='2923165'] ...an acoustic drum kit, played properly, in context, can fit in nicely with folk, skiffle, bluegrass or jug music. Not if played by an over-hormoned lumberjack, I grant you, but [i]real [/i]drummers don't have these problems. [/quote] I was awaiting your response with bated trousers, Dad... You're quite right of course, a [i]real [/i]drummer is always a welcome addition to any band. But in today's modern wannabe meatspace, real drummers are very much at a premium. I've been lucky enough to play with one or two world-class drummers and that's most exhilarating to say the least, but they are rarely to be found on the pub and small club circuit. I must stress the context - not all genres are suitable for the no-drums treatment and as I said in the OP, most rock/pop genres absolutely require a drum kit, preferably played by a great drummer. Other genres, possibly less sophisticated technically, possibly more about the feel and overall ambience and leaning towards skiffle/folk/roots, maybe not so much.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1449402174' post='2923145'] I learned to play slap DB so we could be drummerless, so much less hassle, very little loss tonally and much tighter rhythmically. [/quote] That's interesting. Is the DB amplified or can you be adequately heard acoustically?

[b]Do you REALLY need a drummer..?[/b] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Can of worms time: I had something of an epiphany last night. Went to see a Western Swing/Bluegrass-type covers band (yes, I know) and it quickly became obvious there was no drum kit on stage. 'Whaa..?' was my first outraged reaction. But when they started playing all became very clear, in more ways than one.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The line-up was steel guitar, electric guitar, vocals, bass, acoustic guitar (with pickup). The acoustic guitarist also played a small kick drum from the standing position. So the kick/bass was present, the acoustic guitar played most of what would have been snare hits and the hi-hat was covered by the singer who expertly played a small washboard...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]So there you have it - no drummer necessary![/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Which was great, because the volume level was dictated only by the volume of the acoustic guitar and singing. The band had a very nice, full-range sound and covered every rhythmic frequency as a drummer would. Everything was crystal clear and open and very audible. There was no 'hole' in the sound at all, everyone played in time and propelled the songs forward very nicely. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Only the acoustic guitar and vocals were going through the PA.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It strikes me that we bass players only buy the insanely loud rigs that we do because we have to compete with a bloody drummer! Take him (or her) out of the equation and everything's a [i]lot [/i]easier.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In this context, at this gig, [i]and with this style of music[/i], it was easy to see how a drum kit would have been [i]way [/i]too loud and unsubtle. A 'real' kit would have killed it stone dead - unless played very quietly and very sympathetically [Note: Yes, everyone knows a great drummer who can play quietly and sympathetically, but in the real world they generally do not].[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Of course if you're in a pop band or any kind of rock band, not having a drummer would be totally unfeasible and I'm not advocating a general no-drums trend. If you've been lucky enough to play with a really good drummer you'll know that there's nothing like it. But in the context of folk or country or any of the many sub-genres associated with this and other types of suitable music, I think not using a drummer could well be a [i]huge [/i]advantage.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Imagine doing a gig where you don't have to transport the drummer and his kit to and from the venue (drummers never have their own transport). Imagine setting up quickly and efficiently without having a drummer strew his kit and cases all over the stage, blatantly encroaching on your space. Imagine not having to wait around while the drummer takes an hour to set up and is still fiddling around tuning and adjusting things even as you start your first number. Imagine not having to stand around like a lemon on stage as you start your set while someone prises the drummer away from the bar, or fetches him from a [i]different [/i]bar down the road...[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Imagine not having the drummer whacking his crash cymbal inches from your ear..! OK, [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I can think of a [i]lot [/i]more advantages, but I really don't want this to be a drummer-hate thread. Or at least not much, anyway... [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What think you? Any bass players out there in a band with no drums? How is it working out for you?[/font][/color]

No, it's because you're listening to the bass. No-one else in the room is doing that.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1449319526' post='2922544'] Handy they can miss out gigging, going from just covers on youtube to being signed. Saves having to buy a PA! [/quote] Kidz prefer to live their lives online anyway, so it's ideal. Getting signed is probably one of the worst things a band or artist can ever do. It pretty much always ends in tears. Or resentment, at least.

[quote name='NickD' timestamp='1449273234' post='2922243'] ...what you're playing on and what you're playing through is almost irrelevant compared to what you're playing. [/quote] It is... almost.

I want a Jazz with a Precision neck, so maybe we could work something out.

One of the first, along with James Jamerson (an early McCartney influence) to get away from playing roots and fifths and play melodic lines that were well up in the mix, McCartney put creative bass-playing on the map. Because he was, and is, a great singer, songwriter, arranger and performer it is very easy to underestimate the huge influence McCartney's bass playing had on anyone who picked up a bass guitar after The Beatles.

Oh! That made something happen in my pants. At the front, this time.

[quote name='bluejay' timestamp='1449227831' post='2921700'] Incidentally, a quick search on the social media shows that 5 Seconds of Summer - the one in the pic - is a huge band. It's emphatically [b]not [/b]the band these kids are trying to form. [/quote] This is par for the course on Gumtree. People will post pics of bands they want to be like. So a rock band might post a pic of Led Zep, for example. Just another manifestation of the wannabe delusions that surround the 'musicians wanted' scene. Sincerely John Paul Jones

[quote name='eubassix' timestamp='1449225161' post='2921653'] ...messaged the seller re the Decal (the worst I've seen) [/quote] The worst I've seen, too. Looks like it was hand-drawn with a Sharpie. Avoid.

Go on, Jack!

Drew Barrymore, a vat of Swarfega and lots of cling film.

Oh, that's nasty.

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1449001903' post='2920023'] Enjoy the breathing space and the fact you can have a fuller bass sound that doesn't clash with a rhythm player. [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1449017622' post='2920198'] The band won't sound as "full" but that will be a good thing. [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1449054662' post='2920338'] As long as you keep your layer "together" it doesn't matter what the others are doing or even if they are there or not. [/quote] +1 Most people play too much anyway. Mainly to hide the fact that they're rubbish. In my opinion. Listen to Free playing live for a lesson in restraint and space. They seem to have no means of support and sometimes it only [i]just [/i]hangs together, but it's brilliant. [media]http://youtu.be/JJ6ClSZV5Eg[/media]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1448973220' post='2919664'] ...having a hobby that pays for itself is very welcome and coming back with a few spare pounds after a gig softens any domestic criticism. [/quote] Oh, that's great. I'm going to write a self-help book called 'Softening Domestic Criticism'.