discreet

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1442934664' post='2870711'] Sounds like a good plan, are you looking to build it from scratch yourself? [/quote] God no, I have no knowledge of electronics! It's a totally half-baked idea. I imagined I could somehow shoehorn a valve power amp in there.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1442933017' post='2870685'] The funny thing is that we still see those exact same handles we used to use on tons of bass and guitar amps and cabs made by a huge variety of notable manufacturers and I've yet to hear a ruckus about any of them! [/quote] I wonder why that is?

[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1442928755' post='2870620'] Humm looks nice to be honest - I'm tempted with one for a back-up at that price. Might have to re-house it in a smaller case mind but all the same, at £88 it looks to be a total bargain. [/quote] It probably is, if it doesn't go tits-up tomorrow. Time will tell. Funny you should speak of re-housing... I was thinking of using the box for a [i]proper [/i]valve amp...

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1442928168' post='2870612'] As always Discreet your review and photos are excellent, even if the amp turns out not to be [/quote] Thanks... hey, I don't MAKE the stuff, I just comment on it!

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1442927244' post='2870600'] You could use the space not utilised in the Amp as a rehearsal room! [/quote]

[b]NAD - Behringer BVT4500H[/b] [b]Blurb:[/b] [url="http://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Bass/Bass-Head-Amplifiers/BVT4500H/p/P0521/Features"]http://www.music-gro.../P0521/Features[/url] [b]Manual:[/b] http://www.manualslib.com/manual/214204/Behringer-Ultrabass-Bvt4500h.html#manual I am aware of the reputation that Behringer/Bugera have in certain quarters, including TalkBass, this very parish and basically all over teh internetz - however, this is a simple NAD thread, so I'd like to avoid it becoming the usual Behringer-thrashing exercise if possible, as I'll be doing that myself. Probably. Now read on: The last two auditions I went to both had an Ampeg SVT350 bass amp available. This is the amp, along with the SVT450, that looks like a big SVT valve amp - but isn't. It's a Solid State amp and generally gets little love on the bass forums. I found it to be really quite good. Punchy, hefty and most un-SS like. Not valve-good... but good. The Behringer BVT4500H is supposedly a clone of the SVT450H and as Thomann are offering them for just £88 (including VAT and delivery to the UK), I felt I must get one - just to see what it's like. First impressions: A big, heavy amp. But not as heavy as an all-valve amp. It looks a [i]lot [/i]like an Ampeg SVT and I have no doubt this is completely intentional, as is the very-similar-to-SVT 'BVT' designation. Without the Behringer badge, it would look exactly like an SVT on stage. However, more than half of the big case is empty. The amp is contained in a steel chassis in the top part of the amp. This seems nuts! But it does look very smart from a couple of feet away. Close inspection reveals not-great finishing and slightly flimsy controls which don't inspire too much confidence. I heard a rumour that the BVT is a [i]doppelganger [/i]and is made on the same Chinese production line and using the same components as the SVT350/450 - but as the SVTs use a totally different preamp circuit, are rated using RMS and feature MOSFET power amps, that simply cannot be true. As far as I can tell, the BVT is a Frankenstein affair using off-the-shelf Behringer parts and with the company's tried-and-tested modular 300W power amp at its heart. There is also plenty of room for a large toroidal output transformer and I believe this is what gives the BVT its heft. It's certainly what gives it its weight, along with the MDF casing. There isn't a lot else of mass in the amp and there is quite a lot of empty space in the steel case as well as the MDF box. Most of it doesn't exist!! It's all smoke and mirrors! Chinese smoke, too! And the mirrors are plastic!! The BVT passed the first test, in that the lights came on when I plugged it in and powered-up. So did the fan, which is a little noisy and always-on. With my passive P Bass plugged directly into the input socket and with the EQ section switched off, Pad switched off and Limiter switched off, and with Bass, Mid and Treble at 12 o'clock... it sounds not half bad, actually! But I had to have the gain way up to activate the Peak LED and the Master at 1200 too, which hints at not a lot of power or headroom. At home I never usually have any master at more than 0900. BUT, this is with the amp plugged into one of my BFM J12s (8ohms), so I'm assuming I'll get more beans with both BFM J12s, or my 4ohm Schroeder cab. It's a very punchy sound, and it seems slightly mid-biased. I can imagine this really cutting through a mix and sounding very good in a band situation. By the way, it sounds amazing with my Zoom B1on plugged into the front of it - but pretty much any amp does, so that's no real test. Though it says a lot for the B1on. Get one! With the graphic EQ switched in, you can get a very wide range of sounds. I think anyone could get a usable sound out of it and for £88 delivered it's ridiculous. So is the fact it's disguised as a big valve amp and is largely empty. But considering it's made from odd bits and pieces from Behringer's parts bucket, it's quite ingenious. The decision to bung a big transformer in there is inspired, that's what really makes it work. The amp is rated at 450W @ 4ohms - this is a Peak rating. 450 x 0.707 = 318W RMS @ 4ohms. One of the major criticisms of Behringer is that they quote peak watts, not RMS watts. I think if you can read a spec sheet it doesn't matter. Watt ratings don't tell you how loud an amp is anyway and it's also about which cab (or cabs) you're using. After I've had a few gym sessions, I'll take it to a rehearsal to see what it's like in a band situation. I think it'll be pretty good. I'd definitely take it to a gig - if it got beer spilled on it or it got damaged or nicked, I would care not a jot! And I really want to see if it has the balls for that job. I'll also stick my £25 Behringer BDI-21 SansAmp-alike preamp pedal in front of it too, which will improve matters no end. In conclusion then, if you're expecting a proper pro Ampeg SVT for this kind of money you will be disappointed. But AT THE PRICE it's really quite a good thing, and if you could genuinely afford nothing else (or wanted to spend the minimum possible), it would mean the difference between a very usable (if unwieldy) bass amp - and nothing. But if I were in that situation I can't help feeling that I'd beg, borrow or steal a little bit more cash from somewhere and buy something better quality second-hand. Is it worth £88 inc VAT and delivery? For the shits and giggles alone, I'd say yes. Just don't take it on the bus.

Whether you feel you're being conned or not depends entirely on whether you think products are worth anything. This is the very core of marketing, branding and advertising. Obviously some products are indeed better than others - manufacturers optimise their potential profits by providing a range of quality at different price points to suit different budgets. But in the main something is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. You mentioned Behringer, who do indeed come in for a lot of stick, usually from people who have unrealistic expectations and/or can't read a spec sheet. Behringer are very successful at what they do, but in no way do they produce what would generally be regarded as a 'premium' product. Some of their recent mixers are very good indeed, but I digress. For people on restricted budgets Behringer provide a useful service and their marketing is actually very shrewd. They can represent the difference between having a usable product and no product at all, and that is the bottom line for some musicians and producers.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1442861810' post='2870115'] See me? Ahm dead lucky. Ahve got Fenders and a Barefaced super twin ! Does that make me super hated/liked? [/quote] Both.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1442855461' post='2870042']It could be that people who don't care for Fenders don't like or appreciate being preached at by a vocal minority about how wrong they are. That's how it feels and comes across to me sometimes.[/quote] Could be! But you don't get four pages of reaction when someone starts a 'Warwicks are rubbish' thread. Maybe that's because they are. Wooh! YEAH! And so on and so forth. I went off Fenders for a while, but now I'm back. It's just so subjective... I can understand why people don't get on with them. I do... for the moment.

Original Equipment Manufacturer.

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1442841897' post='2869901'] So some people like Fenders, some people don't like Fenders! There ya go, what a revelation! [/quote] These threads always seem to get very polarised for some reason. I don't understand why people seem to get slightly irritated about the fact that other people really like Fender basses... and some don't. It's just one of those brands that seems to press that button. Like Barefaced... I don't understand the sometimes very vociferous opposition to those who prefer Alex's cabs. Oh well, stay tuned - I'm working on a very fine Behringer NAD thread at the moment, so that'll really bring the haters out of the woodwork!

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442834620' post='2869787'] To some degree, the Precision is a copy of the double bass. [/quote] Yes, in that it has four strings, a bridge, a nut and tuning pegs. There the similarity ends. That's why the P Bass was such a revelation. It's much smaller, it's much lighter, it has frets, it's a sold-body electric guitar, it doesn't rely on acoustics to project its sound, it's played horizontally instead of vertically and it's played on a strap instead of being rested on the floor. Apart from the fact these two instruments share the same open-string tuning and share the same frequency space, they could hardly be more different! Leo did design the P for DB players, but a lot of them simply couldn't, or wouldn't, go anywhere near it, and it was mainly curious guitar players dabbling with the new bass that took it up and ran with it. If the P Bass was a copy of the DB, surely moving from one to the other would have been seamless? It was not. Sorry if this reply is sketchy, I'm trying not to read BigRedX's posts.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1442831504' post='2869729'] A friend has had a couple and none of them have been quite in tune with the outside world. [/quote] Just like the people who play them. Wahey! Boom-tish!

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1442746974' post='2869135'] ... EVERY other electric bass is, to some degree, a copy of the Precision. [/quote] [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1442833179' post='2869760'] Which itself, of course, is a copy of the double bass. [/quote] That's just what the Precision Bass is not. Leo designed the Precision to be an alternative to the huge bulk of 'the dog house' that was portable, and what's more could be heard (as it could be amplified to any level) as acoustic double bass players were getting lost volume-wise against the proliferation of drum kits, big brass sections and electric guitars that were becoming prevalent at that time. The reason it was called 'Precision' is that it had frets, where the DB did not, and so could be played more accurately - and in tune.

[quote name='SICbass' timestamp='1442821759' post='2869620'] And a Marathon? �� [/quote] Anything you can say about a P Bass you can say about a Marathon. They are fantastic basses. I needed to sell mine and am regretting it, as I knew I would. But my 75 Hayman 4040 pretty much handles my Hayman/Shergold GAS, so it's not the end of the world.

Yes, there's a lot of harmonium turns up in classic psychedelic and acid rock. Probably not that surprising actually, given the sound. Good score!

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1442778209' post='2869441']...rather than change other basses so that they sound like Precisions I now think why not just stick with Precisions. This very simple epifany came to me only quite recently but I actually find it quite liberating! [/quote] Yes. If you're playing a P and something doesn't sound right, you can be fairly sure it's your fault.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1442774263' post='2869389'] Anyone know the history of the white finish on Precisions - I have seen it on early 60s ones (possibly refins though) and late 70s, but not on late 60s to early 70s - hence my question. [/quote] I think it has something to do with the change from nitro to poly finishes - like I said above, the yellowing on the mid to late 70s Fenders was due to the degradation over time of a component in the final clear poly coat. Early nitro blonde Fenders also go creamy over time, but for a different reason I believe. That's all I've got really, I can't be bothered to do the Google-work!

I do indeed have one like that - 1976, it is. There is no finer Fender logo and no finer 70s colour combination, in my humble opinion. [url="http://s734.photobucket.com/user/discreet-uk/slideshow/USA%20CBS%201976%20Precision%20Bass%20April%202015"]http://s734.photobuc...%20April%202015[/url] If you look at the wear on the forearm contour, the Olympic White paint underneath is just as white as it was in 1976. It's a component of the clear poly top coat that degrades over time and give the appearance of this creamy yellow colour. Highly prized by collectors! This particular example was made early in 1976. Later that year, the logo changed to a different and slightly smaller font, and the serial number was moved from the neck plate to the headstock. Anyone getting 70s P Bass GAS, much?

[quote name='SimonEdward' timestamp='1442760230' post='2869260'] ...I've heard them on records and always thought.. meh and?.. so what?? 'Everybody' has them, and everyone sounds similar. Solid but 'safe' and not very inspiring.[/quote] What records would those be? Since a lot of iconic, influential and inspiring hit records from the late fifties right up to recent times have a Fender bass on them, I'd say your above statement is a little spurious. The bass is still a relatively young instrument - its entire history spans a single lifetime and there are people still alive who can remember when electric bass didn't exist as it does today. In any case, it's not necessarily the sound of the bass on those recordings that is important - it's the way in which the bass was played, the sheer ingenuity and creativity and innovation of some of the early bass pioneers is absolutely breathtaking. If you don't think they are very inspiring perhaps you should have another listen.

I don't know what the fuss is about. All basses sound the same anyway.

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1442757074' post='2869240'] But what is a Fender? Anything with a Fender logo? IIRC the current Fender company just own the original blueprints and trademarks. The original factory, machines, and craftsmen are no longer with us. It's all about the 'brand' . [/quote] It's all about the original design, which is essentially unchanged. Leo sold Fender to CBS in 1965 and had little to do with it after that. Any bass built to his revised 1957 specs with the split-pickup in the right place is going to play and sound like a P Bass. The rest is marketing.

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1442746974' post='2869135'] One thing I've always thought though, is that EVERY other electric bass is, to some degree, a copy of the precision. [/quote] That is very true. So why not just go straight to the source?