ThomBassmonkey

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1334609623' post='1618608'] Very true, especially the "growl" control. When looking, a while back, I could find nothing at all showing what the growl control does. had to buy a GK to find out ! [/quote] Growl control? You mean boost? The controls are a little daunting on the RB series but once you get used to them (or get them explained) they're easy as pie.

Actually, have you looked at the MB series Stevie? You can get rack ears for them (they're all 1u) and they fulfill all your other requirements. The MB500 and Fusion also have two channels with a footswitch so you can use one channel as distortion/boost/whatever if you fancy (the 700RB-II and 1001RB-II both are only single channel). They're not as deep and rumbly as the RBs but they can still do deep with ease, the two channels are both just a gain and volume control (the other controls are the same on both channels) so you can dial in as much or little grit as you need. I really need to make a demo video of my amps, there's lots of people that ask about them (and GKs in general) and it's a pain to find decent videos because they're not that common.

When we do acoustic sets it's generally acoustic guitar, cajon and I just use my normal setup (Ray into my GK). Just play with the tones a bit and an electric bass will do fine.

[quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' timestamp='1334598498' post='1618321'] I'm pretty much sold on the GK 700 rb now. I don't want to sell my Trace Elliot as I do love it but it's not what I want right now so yeah, she shall be shipped off. What is the effects loop on the GK's like? Is it switchable as well? Also, I can't remember if I read that the pre amp is valve driven on it or not [/quote] The 700RB-II has no footswitch, it's one of the downsides (though not one that ever bothered me since I don't use FX). It's easily sorted with a loop pedal in the FX loop though. All the GK stuff apart from the Fusion 550 and MB Fusion are full solid state. The Fusion amps have a valve pre and SS power sections. After reading some stuff written by Bob Gallien himself, the only reason they use solidstate instead of valve stuff is because they want to. They made an amp that made the noise they like and they stuck with it rather than making loads of different amps and moving away from that tone. That's why the Fusion 550 still uses the same poweramp as the RB series, because that's an inherant part of the GK tone (along with GK's 4 band EQ). Even the MB series (including the MB Fusion), while they sound different to the RB series, they still have that GK signature growl.

[quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' timestamp='1334527516' post='1617353'] Thanks for that Thom, I really appreciate you helping out with that info. As you can tell, I don't know much about GK's stuff. 2001rb, isn't that the 2000 watt version? if so, that's ridiculously powerful haha. Bet you can't even use it on 1 at home. If I am around derby, i'll be sure to give you a message. Thanks again dude! [/quote] No worries The 2001RB-II is 2x540w into 2Ohm or 1080w into 4Ohm when bridged, obviously both have the 50w tweeter amp for bi-amping when used with the RBH and NEO cabs. It's crazy loud, I use it with 2x410RBH and I have to have it on about 2 with the pad on max. Even if I'm using my NEO212 cabs it's still never past about 3. Seriously loud gear. I used to have a 700RB-II with two 210RBH (my first GK amp) and that was more than loud enough. In case there's any doubt, here's a vid of my band playing an auditorium a couple of years back. I was using my 700RB-II into a single 210RBH. Recorded just using a normal video camera mic too from what I remember and you can still clearly hear the bass. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-b6mNiEqcw&feature=relmfu[/media]

It'd be pointless having a 700RB-II AND a Sansamp The GK amps have enough natural growl for anyone. If you wanted an 800RB (there is no 800RB-II ), you'll have to look 2nd hand, you don't often see them though as most people regard them as keepers. If you're ever down the Derby/Notts way, you're welcome to pop to mine, I have a couple of GK stacks and you're welcome to have a fiddle with both if you fancy. If you're looking at the 700RB-II, I have the 2001RB-II which is basically the same (with some extra features and a load more power).

Just to be a bit nerdy, Duff uses and has always used the 800RB since he got his first advance. He's advertised in England as using a 1001RB-II because the 800RB can't be sold over here (iirc something to do with the build of it, it might contain lead or something else that the EU doesn't allow but I really don't know). If you like his tone, there's nothing like a GK amp. The 700RB-II will do what you want just as well as the 1001RB-II. They're exactly the same apart from the difference in wattage and with the 700RB-II being 480w at 4Ohms, it's unlikely you'll need more (especially with a GK amp which are loud) unless you're playing venues big enough to justify a 2001RB-II. All the mkII amps are based on the sound of the 800RB anyway so if you get any of them, you'll be able to get a similar sound out of it. Even the MB series which sound quite different still have the inherant GK tone. You seem to have picked 3 brands that have different sounds, you should see if you can try them out see which type of sound you prefer.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334409374' post='1615834'] Agreed, incredible stuff! [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyPgBzqKlUs[/media] [/quote] Yeah, that's very impressive. Well out of my budget though I'd love to have a play with one to see things like how much mic placement affects the sound etc, but since it's actually replicating the sound rather than being programmed to sound like it, I can imagine it's very accurate. Edit: Forget the bit about the mic placement, I'm thinking about it as a pre-amp. With the DI out rather than it being micd, you're replacing the mic anyway.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1334408521' post='1615815'] Active bass with dying battery dropping output voltage? Can do exactly this. [/quote] Beaten to it by mere seconds!

If you use an active bass, have you tried changing the batteries? Sometimes a dying battery in a bass pre-amp can get farty. I find sometimes when a battery is left a while, it seems to re-gain a bit of charge somehow (like if your phone battery dies and won't turn on, you can sometimes leave it a bit then turn it on again for a minute or two for example), that could account for it sounding ok at the start of a practice then getting worse quickly.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1334404684' post='1615724'] So would you go as far to admit that rather than say modelling amps don't sound as good instead say that you havn't heard one that has convinced you yet? Lets introduce a shade of grey into this black and white discussion [/quote] More than happy to say that. If I heard a processing unit for a guitar that sounded as good distorted as an actual valve guitar amp (particularly along the Mesa/Engl lines), I'd be on the net straight away trying to find out if I could afford one. I'm sure they're not far away now, if they don't already exist. The clean tones especially can sound great (which is why I have no problem believing that people like Silddx can sound good in a band), I just prefer the sound of my GKs for now.

CD players re-create a sound, not manipulate it (they do to some extent of course, but the general idea is a re-creation rather than alteration). I don't see them as the same thing at all. I'm not saying all digital effects are bad either, there's plenty of great effects out there that aren't possible without some kind of digital processing. I'm not saying "digital processing sounds crap." I'm saying that in my experience and opinion, they don't sound as good. I don't like Ashdown amps either, it's just my opinion based on what I've heard. There's no basis in fact for what I'm saying, it's my opinion and experience that live, modelling doesn't fit into the mix (especially on distorted sounds) as a standard amp. The same as scooped tones and transistor guitar amps for distortion. I'm definitely not attacking DACs, if DAC wasn't up to the task, we wouldn't be using digital recordings. If engineers have problems with people maxing their amps, that's a problem with the people, not the amps. I very rarely get told to alter the volume on my amp and when I do it's as often up as down. It does pain me when I bother posting my opinion in a thread like this then people start jumping on each other calling posts "nonsense" and the like. It's all opinion, this is a forum for art. There's facts involved but whether or not someone likes the sound of something is pure opinion and it's absurd to have people calling each other wrong. I'm sure Silddx and others get great tones from their modelling "rigs", but it's just not for me. Likewise, I'm sure some people don't like Musicman basses and Gallien amps, I wouldn't be afraid to post my opinion, but I'd never tell them they were wrong just because I disagree.

I'm sure someone will be able to explain it better, but a bass cab vibrates with the frequencies and a sturdier cab vibrates less. Bracing is basically there to stop it vibrating as much. Loads of budget cabs don't have it as it's a way to save money and your average punter will never have even heard of bracing. With that in mind though, it lets them use better components on the rest of the cab whilst keeping the price down. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that the MBEs aren't good value for money, but they are the budget end so they don't have all the bells and whistles that the NEOs have (though they're incredibly cheap for the quality IMO). The lack of bracing is the biggest "problem", that's why there are people modding them rather than just buying new cabs. If they were bad cabs, people wouldn't bother.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1334327230' post='1614653'] And a guitar with a transducer and circuitry, going via a cable into a bunch of effect pedals, more cable to a pre-amplifier full of circuitry and valves connected to a power-amplifier full of circuitry and valves connected to a wooden cabinet with some loudspeakers, with a microphone in front of them relaying the sound from those speakers (and your feet tapping, trousers flapping, and all the other racket on a stage) via another long cable into a channel strip full of circuitry and out through another amp via a bunch of outboard, into more even bigger loudspeakers, IS NATURAL? [/quote] That is a series of components doing what they naturally do in order to create an output. That's different to a programme in a system where the components are versatile telling something how it should behave. Natural sounds wasn't quite the right wording, I can't think of a better one though. The manipulation that happens inside non-digital units is manipulation of the sound (and there's no way of avoiding that, everything you do affects the sound from the way you pick a string to the hat you're wearing when you listen to it). The manipulation that happens in digital units is manipulation of components to make them manipulate the sound. I don't find that the tone of a digital unit gets lost because of the scoop, I honestly can't tell you why it does because I'm basing this on my experience (both of using and listening) rather than any knowledge of how the innards work. The scoop was just an example of what I mean by the sound can be ok on it's own and still get lost in a mix. I don't hate modelling and my band's new album has a lot of modelling on it (I think 3 of the 4 guitar tracks were modelled rather than using the guitarist's Mesa) so I'm definitely not saying that it sucks and you'll never get a good tone blabla, but I prefer the sound of a proper amp. Like I said, the convenience of a modelling unit like a POD or plugins in the studio are obvious to anyone with half a brain. I'm not trying to state my opinion is fact either, I know some people find they can get the tone they want from a modeller when no amps have been able to provide it. It's all just my opinion. In the studio, postFX can be used and a modelled amp can sound fantastic! It's just live, I've never seen or heard a modelling amp that sounds right in a mix (though mostly that's guitarist's modelling amps and I'm a fan of valve amps on guitar and I've not heard your band Nigel so nothing personal ) I agree with Charic's post above. I'm sure it's within the laws of physics for a program to make speakers move in the exact same way that a normal amp would, I just don't think we're quite there yet. When we are, I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon, I think the convenience and versatility of modelling units is undeniably far superior to actual amps.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1334320156' post='1614431'] As far as revealing neuances in a "tone" I think we can all agree studio conditions are far better than live. [/quote] Conversely, a decent engineer can do a far better job of masking any negatives in the studio than a live engineer can.

I'm joining this party a bit late, but I've done various sessions (live and studio) with modelling and various amps (guitar and bass) and I don't like modelling. IMO it's like buying a corsa then putting a ferrari body on it and saying it's just as good as the real thing. All of the manipulation that happens inside modelling units is manipulation, it's not "natural" sounds. The biggest problem for me is that live, high gain sounds never fit in the mix properly, they seem to behave like scooped tones where they can sound great on their own but when they go into a mix they disappear. The same thing happens in the studio but the engineer obviously has a lot more control over the sound, there's layers etc. Given the choice between amp or modelling, it's a no brainer for me. Modelling for clean tones is better than modelling for distortions, generally clean modelling is pretty good nowadays, it's still not as good as a decent amp though IMO. If you want a variety of sounds and/or can't take an amp to gigs (e.g. you don't have a car and rely on public transport) then modelling is a good solution. If you're in a studio and people always turn up with crap amps then having modelling software rather than spending thousands on amps then having to store them, modelling is a good solution. That's all it is to me currently though, a solution, I just don't think they match up to a real amp if you have that option available.

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1334322512' post='1614506'] I've been after a new rig for some time and have pretty much narrowed it down to a GK MB500 - but I can't decide on the cabs. My budget could just stretch to the NEOs, but are they really going to offer me that much over the MBEs? I've done quite a bit of research on here and Talkbass and there seems to be a bit of a bias against the MBE cabs on there, lots of people onsider them badly made and not to sound too great. Of course, with the MB500 head I won't have any use for the bi-amp feature - in fact the horn will probably just stay off anyway. [/quote] There's nothing wrong with the MBEs, you want to take what people on TB say with a pinch of salt, they seem a bit more vulnerable to spouting hearsay, rumour and opinions as fact than most. The MBEs are made to a cheaper price point than the NEOs, that's no surprise. There also has been a few dodgy ones slip through but they're the extreme minority, I wouldn't worry about buying an eastern one if you fancy it. Lots of people swear that cabs without bracing are useless then don't listen to the actual cabs. Try looking them up on here and finding the opinions of people that actually use the MBEs and not just people that have had 2nd/3rd hand information. It might be worth giving Polar Audio a buzz and seeing if you can nip over and try them out. A couple of hours each way on the road isn't a huge price to pay when you're spending hundreds on cabs.

The G30 has no problems with line of sight, I've never had it drop out ever for any reason and it's been used in all kinds of venues, through walls, outdoors, whatever you fancy. I have to move the pack a little bit up my strap or it hums a bit (I guess interferance from the pre-amp on my bass) but it's not noticable while playing anyway and there's still plenty of play in my 6" lead.

[quote name='thodrik' timestamp='1334191195' post='1612480'] It really depends on whether 'special' for you equates to a hefty pricetag, amazing build quality, great feature, or an instrument that you pick up that just feels like home. If you are lucky a bespoke custom bass will do that but it is never a guarantee. [/quote] This is a good point. For your £1000 you can add, you could probably find a bass that fits like a glove. There's plenty of good basses out there for under £500 that might be just want you want.

[quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1334186718' post='1612452'] When I wonder off round a venue with my G30 I don't have a timing issue at all, the rest of the band do though. [/quote] If you go far enough your timing might still be fine, but it'll be at a different time to the rest of the band At least assuming they're in time with each other haha!

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1333523831' post='1602734'] I realise a lot of folk are recommending some form of 'uber' Jazz but to my mind you've had some very good basses of that ilk and they aren't doing it for you; I'd look outside of the Fender (clone) camp! [/quote] I was thinking this exact thing. If you've had a variety of jazzes and not found "the one", then they might not suit you. If I were in your shoes, I'd do a few things. Get out to every shop you can. If you go somewhere for a day, get to any local music shops. Try every bass you can get your mitts on, especially try all the different types (P, J, Ray, actives, passives, diffferent pickup configs etc etc) as much as possible so you can try and narrow down what it is you actually want. Once you've done that, don't be afraid to buy second hand from here, I've had quite a few basses ranging from £600-1000 bought and sold on here and I've lost bits on some and made bits on others depending on the market (yes, I know that making a profit isn't the "done thing", but I'm happy to sell some on cheaper when the market moves so I don't see it being a problem making a few quid on others when the market goes the other way). On average I'm about breaking even (minus the value of my current basses of course) so it's unlikely you'll lose a lot of money. This lets you try out basses for a good period of time and in the environment you'll be using them in with your own gear. Do NOT go custom. As others have said, it sounds like you don't know what you want. If you throw money at a custom build and don't like it, you've lost at least half your money instantly. Get yourself to bass events. LBGS (which has just passed), bass bashes, ask people that have instruments you want to try if you can have a play etc. Many people on here won't mind you popping around and having a twang on their bass if you're not putting them out.

G30 here too. If you're only looking for the extra range, don't bother with the G50 or G90, by the time your signal's cutting out on a G30, there's a very obvious delay between you playing a note and hearing it and it's very hard to stay in time. The range is far more than the specs suggest anyway. If you want the extra channels or for it to be rackmounted, then the 50 or 90 might be worth a look, otherwise don't bother.