EBS_freak

Apparently 3 weeks too. So not too long to wait. Remember the Roxanne wait....? That was a lifetime! No carbon to contend with this time though! Bizarrely enough, I was pretty bummed out about the fate of my Roxannes as you can imagine... - but yesterdays session has got me well excited again. It was a bit of a surprise for me to be honest because once I put the Roxannes in again and then listened to the Lola, I was like, yep, yep, another set of Roxannes defo... but things turned out a little different it would seem! 😛

And some of the most successful bass players only use the bottom E string...

So yeah, the N8t... I liked it. I liked it a lot. But not as much as the 12 - which for me, is still the piece (ignoring the difference in the price) I would go for from 64. They are both very similar sounding pieces but I much prefer what the bass is doing on the 12. It hits harder, I perceived it to be tighter in the sub bass and with significantly more attack. Overall, I would say the 12 sounds a lot more controlled than the n8t does. It's not a big surprise that the two pieces otherwise sound quite comparable given the similarities in the driver count - but here's the thing for me... The lows in the n8t are a bit less defined (but not muddy) - which is a bit weird given the marketing around it - but I could understand how some people would really like that that sort of signature. It probably has more of a inherent personality tonally than the 12. When describing how I felt about it to Paul (bearing in mind he hadn't heard it yet - I am actually the first to have had his n8t demos in my ears!), I said that I feel like the bass is bit more like sticking a sub in a cars boot - yes, lots of bass but not necessarily as focused as it could be. I found the lows smeared a little with the lower mids - but the extended range of the mids as a whole are lovely. Very smooth and slightly warmer (but only a tiny amount that I don't think you would notice if you allowed any significant time in between testing the 2 side by side) than the 12... but I guess that's where the dynamic is showing it's colour over the balanced armature. The n8t doesn't have that bump in the lows (eq wise) that that 12s had... but I think it's that bump that I prefer in the 12s over the n8ts. So the other pieces I was trying out were the Layla, Lola and Roxanne. Obviously, I'm very familiar with the Roxanne and that was the piece I started with. Immediately I recognised the sound signature even though they have been out of my ears for a while. Switching to Lola, I recognised the subtle difference in the mids. Again, warmer and fatter - the "bloom" that I talk about it. The Siren series are generally quite dark anyway - but I would say that the added dynamic in the mid (note JH apply their dynamic to the mid as opposed to the bass) makes things all thick and gooey - but in a good way. Very revealing, yet very warm and smooth in your ears. There is one issue I've always had with the Roxanne that was similarly present in the Lola. For my ears, there is a slight sibilance issue with ts and esses. Not an annoyance to point of distraction - but still there nonetheless. So Layla. Lovely piece and I was prepared to spend the money - however... I found it ultimately a bit flat sounding compared to the Roxannes and Lolas. The latter pieces have more of a personality in the bass that the Layla doesn't exhibit as much... I definitely think I'm not into flat response in the bass. I like hyped bass. So ultimately, Layla was out - and I still preferred the tightness of the balanced armatures in the Roxannes over the dynamic of the Lola. So you've had my thoughts on the 64 but crucially, it was the 12s verses the Roxannes that I was most interested in. The 12s had better bass - which absolutely shocked me when A/Bing the two side by side. The 12s had a thicker mid despite the Roxanne overall sounding darker. The 12s defo sounded wider and had more "air" (which probably contributes to the 12s sounding less dark than the Roxannes)... but the thing that sealed the deal for me was that the 12s didn't display any of the same sibilance issues that I got with the Roxannes and Lola. (Again, sibilance can be down to my ears as opposed to an issue with the piece itself. Jerry Harvey's ears for example, are going to be different to mine!). Paul hasn't currently got a set of 18s to try but I felt confident I wouldn't like the flatter response given the difference I'd heard between the Layla and it's not so flat siblings, Roxanne and Lola. My other concern was the amount of drivers in the shell - I don't want to look like Shrek on stage! So it probably comes as no surprise that I ordered a 12t... and I'm pretty excited about getting hold of them. So to confirm my opening statement... the 12 is still the piece that I would go for from 64... and did! As a note, I don't listen to whole songs when test IEMs in a shoot out, I switch regularly between the pieces and listen to literally 10 seconds snippets. For those interests, these are the things I was listening to - Hotel California (Hell Freezes Over version) (live) - despite being a live recording, I believe this is one of the best recordings out there to try out an IEM. It's got lots of space in the mix, lots going on in the lows, lots of stereo separation going on (listen to the percussion for a start), lots of detail throughout the whole frequency spectrum - and for me, shows up any sibilance issues that I may have with the vocals. Walking in Memphis - Marc Cohen - just a great studio performance with a lovely thick vocal and is superbly balanced and mixed. Cars and Girls - Prefab Sprout - I don't mind the song but actually hate this recording with a passion but always use this recording to check out sibilance on an IEM. There's a shed load of esses everywhere on this recording that are present on every set up going. If you want to know exactly how bad the esses can be on your IEMs, this is the track to do it. Free - Rudimental - the bass monster finder. If you IEMs can kick hard to the point where you can't stand the bass, your IEMs are officially a bass monster. Bass drum, sub bass, thick mid, female vocal. All extremes! Not necessarily the songs the I would listen to on a daily basis... but I do tend to keep coming back to them to test stuff out. So endeth the JH era, hello 64. What I should say though though, is when you get to this level, they are ALL amazing pieces... and it's literally that last 10% that you get picky over? Would I order the Roxanne again? Of course I would! - it just felt it would be prudent to run through all the pieces again back to back to make sure I was still happy with the Roxannes. Of course I would be happy with the Roxannes... but it would seem I'd be a tiny bit happier with the A12ts.

Guess who heard the N8s today...?

The Heil is defo where it's at out of the two. Plus extra cool points for being the Hunger Games mic...

Personally I think the sound signature of the KZ10s aren't that great but I'm pretty sure you'd have a bit of a game reshelling them and getting them to sound right because the balances armatures appear to be tubeless - and I'm not sure whether the dynamic would be able to be reshelled because most makers avoid dynamics...

Didn't want your post to go unnoticed. Yeah - theres a few guys on here that use them. Theres the P&D option, Eich bass board - and I even have a home-brew version. However... the whole point of going IEM for me was to take less gear to gigs... which I why I tend not to use them... and they tend to pin you to the spot which makes watching a band a bit dull imho. (Kinda great if you a band playing on a small stage and got nowhere to roam though!) Alternatives that we have talked about on this thread though are the woojer strap (which I use when I can be bothered) and the Backbeat - which is due out soon.

I find the opposite. But then they fall out. And then I get no bass. Or any sound for that matter.

I've seen a few marked single beds at some dodgy hotels in my time, I can tell you.

@r16ktx great purchase! enjoy muchly!

I'm sure he could fit in a single.

Quite right... I messed up what I was trying to say - dynamics produce more bass (than balanced armatures) and are often described as "warmer" in their sound. Balanced armatures develop a lot less bass but are a lot, lot more detailed and revealing.

NO! Not anywhere near kinky enough.

1. You are comparing a 41.3mm dynamic to a pair of balanced armatures on bass duties. Dynamic speakers tend to develop a lot more bass than balanced armatures... which is why a lot of bass players (granted, that are prepared to spend the money) really stack up those balanced armatures in the lows. The UE900s have what I would call adequate low end and are less likely to distort if you start digging in. They aren't tuned to be out and out bass monsters). You may want to put an EQ in front of them and start rolling off some of the tops (subtractive EQ) so the IEM becomes more bass focused. For real bass junkies, you are realistically looking at getting a quad in the bass if you want to keep up with the HD25s. With regard to the boxy thing, that could be a 200Hz issue (try pulling that down if it's sounding too boxy) or it could be down to the IEMs themself and how you are perceiving the sound from them - IEMs generally suffer with less wide sound stage... the 64 Apex/Adel (for those that remember) trades a little isolation and bass response for a greater sense of width. If you have access to EQ, you will be able manipulate the sound to give you more of what I think you are striving for. 2. Generally, the failure rate on hitting a perfect fit is low. Ears are of all different shapes and sizes but the process of getting the impression is the same. If the acrylic is too thin and the result is a loose fit.. it has to be built up with more acrylic. If it's the other way around, its shaved down. Normally manufacturers have a 30 day window where you request a refit - and they'll work with you to get the fit right. It's not in their interest to leave somebody with a poor fitting IEM. I was talking to Paul from custom IEM about this on the stand at the bass show. He says that poor fitting monitors are very, very rare now... however, he does check each impression before it leaves so knows if it's up to scratch or not. For manufacturers that aren't using 3D printing and still doing the casting method, the preparation on the impression before making the mould is a skilled task. It has to be shaved down to size (so it looks like an IEM would) and then dipped in wax. This can oversize the mould ever so slightly.. so when it comes to the final polish of the iem, it takes some now how and experience to not go too far. With 3d modelling, all the cutting, shaving and smoothing are done inside the computer... so the results are very, very accurate. Some of the smaller operations are not into the realms of 3d printing yet... so you are putting a certain amount of trust in the people building your IEM... but as I said, these guys have to be accommodating when it comes customers needing to get a perfect fit.

Oi. Stop trying to derail the thread.

We both know that this isn’t about numbers... Who’s lungs have they been through?

CTRL + is your friend...

In the seconds before, her facial expressions give everything away. The fart. The wait. When it hits her nose... and then the dirty girl is secretly digging on it.

@Hellzero - so you're not too keen then? At a push, I'll fill the jiffy bag with some air that may (or may not have) have been breathed by Mark King at some point.

PS... You've been spending too many hours on *those* sites. It sends you blind.

Of course, that's not taking into account the custom SCS art work you'd have... and the custom SCS orange acrylic you'd order... and while you're at it, the thermosoft tips... etc. etc.... Could get pricey 😜

Image above. £180 - I'm guessing you'd have to pay extra for shipping your impressions to him (which will have a cost in themselves) and the shipping of the final article. Think you are probably looking circa 220 quidish all in. Although personally, I'd get him to change the MMCX connector for something less shite...

Well, if you count the sheets he did. I took them to a gig of his and draped it over the balcony with the words, "Mark, you could be under these very sheets". I could tell he was interested. Even though I wasn't even there.

How about ordering a set of quads and asking if this Lugs chap can add some acrylic to your existing reshells. He will have a new impression so should be able to get his micrometer gauge on it to see what needs adding.