EBS_freak

The Allen and Heath QU is a great mixer! Big fan of A&H - as you can probably tell with the GLD80 mention (it's just a bit big to carry around with all the external stage boxes for smaller gigs) Anyway - the Alto gear is great, especially for the money. Having looked at the Alto 1604, I see that it has inserts available to you... there's nothing stopping you cabling out to the UI12 and using the auxes and main outs as fx processors (with hard pans on the outs of the mains) - this will certainly supercharge your Alto with kit you already own. (Kind of the same software based fx processing approach as using Waves multirack I guess). Talking of which - and I don't know how much of a gear head that you are - if you have a multi input sound card and a decent computer, you could run some processing via Live Professor... so you have the simplicity of faders but with the additional functionality of some heavyweight processing plugins. Anyway... I guess it's got to that point where I'm geeking out again with regards to all the above... But its a shame you didn't go the Behringer route because you could have added some physical faders with the X Touch. Just looking at your initial post though, I do think you may be going backwards going analogue - for example, to properly EQ a kick drum, you'd want a minimum of EQ, compression and most importantly, a gate.

Your bass. Whatever makes you happy!

Although I have to say, I prefer the HD350 to the HD360 - they changed something in the top end, that for me, doesn't quite work as well.

From https://www.zoom.co.jp/B3n-update-Dec2017 For users of the B3n, Zoom Guitar Lab offers monthly updates featuring new Amp+Cabinet combinations, Stompboxes, and preset patches. Here’s a list of new patches, emulators, and effects featured in the December 2017 release: NEW AMP + CABINET EBH360 - This models the sound of the EBS HD360 bass amplifier. EB4x10TW - This models an EBS ProLine 410 cabinet with four 10" speakers and a tweeter. Download in the above link.

It will be interesting to hear - as alot of the "famous" EBS sound comes from the Proline cabs.

I never knew people bothered modelleling EBS amps - I didn't think they were considered mainstream enough!

I have. HD350! Although I do tend to use a couple of profiles that I made at a very tasty recording studio using Neve, SSL and Chandler channels strips.

Remove the spill completely (apart from drums unless you go electric on that front) and take the leap into the world of in ears! Stereo, processed loveliness in your ears, no ringing post gig either. I play with a percussionist sometimes - being able to hear a shaker in your inears is beautiful. There's no way I'd hear that over all the noise that the drummer is spewing out (remembering theres no amps on stage too!) Stick your drummer on IEMs - he'll be able to hear what he wants then. And even better, if he plays too loud, keep pushing the volume of the kit up in his ears and then he will be a bit more reluctant to hit them as hard. Are you seeing the benefits yet?!

Not exactly the point I was going for - but yes, true. I was more going for the spill into the mics and over powering the front of house mix!

Just as the other side to the story - I use IEMs and put all my faith in the 745s (I also use the same setup regularly with a K-Array, D&B and L-Acoustics setup) out front. And it works well. Much better than any other setup that I've ever sported for the reasons that I've mentioned in the thread. I've also run my Kemper through a 745 more than a few times. It works as a guitar rig. It works as a bass rig. It works without breaking a sweat - I think this was one of the swaying points for BigRedX - he uses his setup to replace both a guitar and bass setup. With regards to Pete's setup, he's using 2 735s as front of house. When he bought them, he already owned his backline. If he was to sell the backline, he would lose a lot of money to replace them with say another 735. For monitoring purposes, the traditional small combo does him fine - but he uses the 735s to push the bass out at volume - as he does for the rest of the band (when he finally got the guitarist to turn down and rely on the PA to get his guitar heard). I think I already know his answer to the question I posed above... if he hadn't already have bought his backline, I don't think he would be running the same setup now. So I don't think it has anything to do with convenience - its more to do with the fact the 735s do all the hard work and his combo gives him enough on stage as a monitor - and replacing it doesn't really make that much economical sense. I don't think the point goes unnoticed - of course, there's options - including traditional backline. But those that have ventured into using PA cabs (either for FOH or on stage in a more traditional setup) and modern modellers are certainly seeing the rewards. If I had my way, nobody would be using amps unless they are on a large stage... the sound you can get without them is much more controlled and better when it comes to a balanced mix. I still think there is an underlying cross purpose in this thread...

I'm guessing you are up to speed with the monster IEM thread then!

But am I right in thinking... and I'm sticking my neck out here... if you hadn't already owned your backline, your backline would be looking more preamp and PA shaped?

RCF über alles - no, not at all. I will reiterate, it's just those particular models and components that are in them. I'm actually a L-Acoustics, D&B and Danley nut... but realise they are perhaps another tier above the average PA speaker. I spend a lot of time looking and trying stuff out and these (73/45s) are unique among the competition for the reasons I've mentioned above a couple of times. The QSC and Yamaha stuff (and I guess JBL, EV and all the other likely candidates at that price point) is certainly of comparable quality but not performance - and if you ask and 735 or 745 user on here, they will all tell you the same, they never struggle for headroom or getting vocals heard. First hand experience with other cabs has shown me that not to be the case with other manufacturers examples in that price range. If any other brand put the same quality of components in any model of their cabs, I would be singing the same praises. I've shared a few conversations with @stevie about these specific cabs - we aren't quite sure how they are managing to manufacturer and sell them for the price that they are. They certainly don't appear to be making much profit from them per unit - or at least, we can't really figure out how they are doing it if they are. OK to clarify the subwoofer situation - the 735 or 745 will allow you to push out some serious bass without subwoofers. You wouldn't use small subs, so don't use small tops when you are expecting them to shift a lot of hard hitting bass. When I mean serious bass, I mean gig volumes of bass and kick drum. The 310s will definitely not do that... or at anywhere near he same volume. My experience with the 745s is that you can actually sack off all the backline, run IEMs and let the FOH speakers do the amplification for the whole band. This means less bleed on stage and better dispersion for say, guitar, where guitar amps are typically very unidirectional. If you are a member of the audience standing in front of a guitar amp, you are likely to be blasted. Two steps to the right or left and the guitar amp may be unbalanced with the rest of the band. By putting the whole band out of the FOH, you don't get any of these problems. My pitch for the 735 or 745 is that it can form half of a formidable PA but if you need a combo, it will more than happily do the job of a traditional rig also. I think there's a dual conversation happening in this thread which is muddying the water a little for some. EBS haven't done anything for a while... certainly nothing that makes me sit up and take notice! Still love their amps though - the HD350 is still my fave bass amp of all time and I'll still take it out on a whim from time to time (usually a dep where they aren't geared up with a beefy PA and IEMs)... although my personal main rig is now a Kemper (no speakers) and inears going into a beefy PA? Why, because it sounds better on stage (my IEM mix is coming from a dedicated mixing desk with full stereo, compression fx etc)... and sounds clearer out front (nothing to bleed apart from the drums into the vocal mics). Who wouldn't want to change?

EDIT - removed dodge links to Amazon.

A 15 is not particularly optimal... (speakers can perform as well as other models both larger and smaller than it) it's more down to the fact that with the choice of the particular hf drivers and 15s in the RCF 735 and 745s, it allows for a lower crossover, which means the horn can do more of the work and free up the 15s to take care of more of the lows at volume. It's not any voodoo going on - it's just that RCF for whatever reason, have paired a phenomenally good horn and woofer together in those models... components of a specification that should not coexist in a box at that price point. Have a look out there and try and find anything remotely comparable. Even the new Yamahas that dood mentions, don't have components in them of comparable specs (and I would wager they are more expensive too! Although that Dante option is drool worthy in those Yammies!). If you want the larger VCs in a smaller 12 package, the 732 may be the route for you to take, although you will drop down to a 2.5" VC in the woofer.

You could do worse than the 735s - up to bass duties without subs without any issues. Just to clarify, it's not RCF in general - just those two cabs in particular due to the drivers that are in them. You could ditch your bass rig altogether if you went IEM too.

I've gigged regularly with a band that uses the DL1608. They are a very straight forward mixer to operate with decent processing and decent enough fx for what you'd want. The compressors and EQ shaping on the pres are great and obviously the aux count in a small package is a big plus. I actually tend to operate a pair of DL32Rs (one for FOH, one as a dedicated monitoring desk) over a GLD80 based on my experience of using the DL1608. When docked, there are obviously no dropout problems with the 1608 - but having said that, I have never really suffered with wifi drop out problems when using an Airport Extreme router. Alot of problems with wifi usually comes down to a units inbuilt router not being up to the job (Behringer XRXX I'm really looking at you here) or the external router in use being placed badly or again, not really being up to the job. Also, having the iPad docked also opens up a direct connection to Spotify etc, if you want to use that. In todays age, I would always recommend using a digital desk over an analogue desk. They are smaller than the analogue equivalent (especially if you take into account the racks and racks of outboard gear it would take to replicate the onboard DSP of the digital desk) - and the processing is unbelievably powerful. You have the FX engines, but also you have compression, EQ, and a gate on every channel... and a 31 band EQ (for getting rid of problematic feedback frequencies) on each output (so thats EQ for your FOH and every wedge). The other thing to consider, is that if you are using an iPad on your UI12, you should be able to hardwire an ipad to it using an Ethernet cable, one of these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DGDNL2G and one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00486070K

^gas

Youre right, you shouldn't sell out to Gregorian Chant. Be true to yourselves.

Now wouldn't it be interesting if said supporting bass player ended up going down a similar route...?

Perhaps you should branch out into Gregorian Chant?

How is the baroque scene looking nowadays?

Not bad result!

Has anybody commented, especially on the originals scene, why are you using a "proper" amp? How did your band take to it?

But when you are using the subs, you are using a crossover that takes up the bass duties away from the tops... actually making your tops more potent because it hasn't got to struggle with the harder to amplify bass frequencies. For bass guitar, subs are actually generally too subby for bass guitar in most smaller venues!