EBS_freak

http://www.custom-lynx.co.uk/ These guys made one up for me.

It's been a while since we had a good geek out in here and as a few people have asked what I am running from both here and various places outside of BC, I thought I would actually get around to getting it down on paper, so to speak... So here's a brief, high level overview. So, as I've mentioned in this thread, I run two desks and this seems to be my fave go to rig at the moment because it's so powerful and a really compact package to carry around. In reality, all of this weighs in at less than two decent wedges (12-15) and is about the same size. In this solution the backbone are the DL32Rs - the reason being is that they sound great, they support Dante and have all the I/O (that'32 channels in and plentiful amount of auxes!!) on board without having to buy a load of snakes or stage boxes. (For example, the X32 Rack is the same size but doesn't have all the I/O that it is capable of supporting without buying extra boxes/snakes). Front of house is used as you would any mixer... but I don't use any of the auxes for monitoring - this leaves all those auxes free for matrix mixes, delay lines, outboard fx etc. This means we can EQ, compress, use all the fx we would like to use as normal for FoH. Anything input into the Dante network, whether that be via a mic, line in, or another Dante device, is available to be used by any other device on the network. Just configure what channels you want to subscribe to and on which device. The Dante cards in the FoH and Monitor World mixers have two network outs - each of these go to a switch that in turn, provisions the two networks. These switches never share data between each other... although a replica set of packets is set to both set of mixers - meaning if any network is disrupted, there is no loss of transmission as the other network should be able to fill in any late or missing packets in the data transmission. To be honest, I've never had any issues with running Dante on just a single network...but I've always had a dedicated network for running this setup. (For example, if you were somewhere where there is already a network, you can just plug into that and it'll work alongside any traffic that is on that network... however, you will be at the mercy of that network... and you would hope that there is some QoS configured so the Dante traffic gets priority. Anyway, I digress). Note - there is no reason to have big rack mount switches like I have... I just like rack stuff, and wanted the availability to plug lots of Dante stuff in (for example, at a recent gig I did, there were a number of Dante enabled recording devices - getting the multitrack recorded was a case of just simply plugging in a laptop, subscribing to the required channels and then hitting record in a DAW). Anyway, 1 or 2 Cat5e/6 cables are better than a 32 way analogue split! Whatever is presented to the FoH preamps, is presented to the Monitor World desk digitally via Dante (it's literally a duplicate of the audio signal post the analogue to digital conversion but before any processing has taken place on it at FoH). What this means, is that I can apply separate processing, completely independent of FoH. Additionally, it opens up a whole new set of FX engines that you can use for your inears... you don't need to be compromised by using the return from whatever the FoH is using. Guys that are taking just an aux off a FoH desk probably find an unprocessed bass quite clanky... in MW, I can EQ and compress so the inears users have a more studio-esque sound. Similarly, having the ability to control the bass drum is another great plus... if you are running with some big subwoofers, it's unlikely that you'll get away with boosting the lows to the point where you want it in your inears without killing everybody in the audience (and lets remember, most people wont have that sort of control anyway because most auxes (depending upon the desk in question and the routing) are sent preEQ and processing. (You can get around this by splitting channels digitally on the FoH desk and having an IEM channel and a FoH channel - but that eats into your channel count!). All the inears users are controlling their mixes (via iPhone/iPad) via the auxes on the MW desk - either to the IEM transmitters, or to a hardwired pack. There's a wireless router that is connected on the primary network - this provides the DHCP for the connecting clients and also passes the control data from the apps to either of the desks that you want to control. The top laptop is used to configure the Dante network (if its configuration needs to be change - e.g. if you are adding devices etc - but for the most, it's stays static for the setup you see here. This first laptop also has Dante Via installed - quite a clever piece of software - means you can put the output of a specific application on the Dante network and assign it to a channel/return on a desk. For example, if you run a DJ app, you can run that app and only the sound of that app will appear on the Dante network and nothing else. (Surf YouTube, watch Facebook and all the sound apart from the DJ app comes out the laptop speakers/headphone socket but not the PA!) The second laptop has Dante Virtual Soundcard and Waves Multirack on it. This means you can record the gig straight into a DAW (although to be fair, you can record straight to a USB hard disk on either of the desks). The later bit is the interesting bit - that enables you to use plugins, that you would in your DAW, on your PA... so all those nice compressors, modulations, SSL EQs... all there. There is one caveat however, the latency is maybe just a little too high for inears without the PCIe card and caddy - but for front of house, it certainly works well! The dotted line is to say I don't tend to use this as to be fair, the DL32R has it nailed unless you really want some special processing that it can't give you natively. What is really cool... if you run out of auxes in MW, you can add another monitor desk by plugging it into the Dante network and duplicating MW into another MW. No analogue snakes or splitters here. Just keep adding desks! Of course, if you wanted to, you can still use the auxes on FoH for monitoring as you would without a dedicated monitoring desk. Additionally, indicated by the dotted lines going to nowhere - you can keep plugging Dante devices into the switch... so for example, as mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I did a gig where Dante was feeding multiple desks - one for mixing for an online broadcast, one for IEM users, one for wedges where the players are just not interested in IEM and of course, didn't need all the processing, FoH... and then all the various laptops that we were using for recording, Waves etc. So there you go... good enough for stadiums yet still small enough for pubs. Overkill? Maybe. But it's fun and the inears mixes never fail to bring a big smile to my face.

I take it that you didn't read the thread then? :-p

Not cheap are they. Suspect you need a crossover at some point too.

I think you are talking about Bluetooth multipoint - it seem to intelligently switch between devices but not allow concurrent connections to flow. Eg what happens when you try back audio from your laptop and phone at once? I suspect one device would win out over the other (probably the phone as the manufacturers assume you'll want to take a call?) Pleasureboards are great but I'm reluctant to replace the cab that I've got rid of with another sizeable thing to cart around.

I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality when I opened it! I think BT is strictly one to one on the pairing. Funnily enough, I'd already questioned this - but for a different application where I want a large number of devices listening to just one transmitter.

@knicknack - this should give you a better idea...

Yes - via their kickstarter project but they do sell direct off their website.

You wouldn't need a split. The woojer has a headphone amp (a very good one at that) built into it. so signal chain would be - Stereo/mono aux->woojer->headphones or Stereo/mono aux->wireless pack->woojer->headphones

It has a mini jack in socket in addition to a bluetooth link. So you'd run it from the aux on your desk or after a belt pack (or whatever else you may be using)

Indeed - I was at the very same venue a couple of weeks back. Scary to think I was there at the same place that horrible, horrible act took place. For Ariana, I guess she will always have that burden to live with. :-( Not her fault in the slightest but I know I would find it very hard to come to terms with.

You mean you haven't tried it yet?!

And when you realise that the design of the 735 and 745 means that the vast majority of the vocals are going through the horn and not the woofer because the horns in those boxes can do way more than those typically found in their competitors. (Much lower crossover points) You also can't say that a 12 is better or worse than a 15 in a PA box - that depends on the horn that it is coupled with and the design of the box it is in. A QSC 12 will not keep up in the lows with either the 735 or 745. Yes, you can add a sub to extend out - that's more to carry... but you could also add a 8003 to your 7x5 - which compared with to a QSC with sub will still be easy sailing. I get that you dig your QSCs but the 735 and 745 are completely different beasts compared to the other cabs mentioned here. Check out cabs with 3 and 4 inch horns and you'll see what I mean. The thing is, you won't find those sort of horns in 1. A plastic box (apart from the 735 and 745) and 2. Under 1k (or even under 2k) - apart from the 735 and 745. That is why these particular boxes are killer. If you must have a 12, check out the 732 and report back - truthfully. I wouldn't run the 732 without a sub though - unlike the 735 or 745.

OK - I've taken a Woojer on a proper gig. In fact, the whole four piece band were all sporting Woojers. Here's the scoop. EVERYBODY BUY A WOOJER NOW. Freakin' incredible. Compared to the difficulties that I was having with the setup whilst running a "virtual sound check" with my rig, when running the setup with a full band, there was no real headaches. I was driving straight off an aux, no compression, no EQ, just straight out the box and everything was kicking hard. I'm not sure why I was getting different results with my virtual sound check but I'm confident that in even the most simplest setups it works. Setting up was just a case of watching the aux output and making sure that it didn't peak past 0dB - but crucially, ensuring that if running a headphone amp or wireless amp into the Woojer, it was up high enough to register a firm sensation with the woofer but without distortion. Within 5 minutes I got it exactly where I was wanted. I played with the app and set the response to 3 o'clock which gives the Woojer some extra sensitivity... but I found myself winding it back down a tad on the physical device in the end. After the gig, it felt really weird not having it on anymore. I can't actually see me gigging without it now... and I never was one for missing the "trouser flap" thing. With this round my pelvis, it feels like theres a truck load of air being blasted right at my pelvis. Amazing sensation. Everybody in the band agreed - even the sceptical singer. The drummer thought it was awesome too - and a much more portable solution than the P&D throne/Buttkicker. The headphone amp in this thing is great... it drives headphones very loud! (In fact, I'm sure you could drive it straight off an aux (as I've stated previously) and it would be great and negate the need for a separate headphone amp). BIG BIG BIG SMILES. PROPER EXCITED BY IT ALL. >>> THIS IS A GAME CHANGER <<<.

Also, if using active speakers with a mic/line switch, make sure it is switched appropriately. With regard to the green lights on a channel, memember that a mixer is summing all the channels... so that if all your channels are registering near 0, by the time they are summed at the LR, they could send the main output into clipping... so be careful where your LR is placed. In other words, don't push that LR too hard.

Ha ha. No need to do that. There's guys on here using the Soundcraft UIs, RCFs, Behringer XR16/8s and X32s, Mackie DL, QSC Touchmix, A&H GLD and QU series stuff... amongst other things!

Im guessing you haven't read through much of the thread then?

OK - so I've had about three hours playing. Here's my Woojer findings... In fact, don't read the crossed out text... jump down to my next post. 1. To make this work nicely with an inears mix takes a lot of perseverance. Don't expect a plug and play result. 2. The Woojer, when running it behind a radio receiver of headphone amp, is quite (very) picky when it comes to input from that. Any signal that is too hot results in a particularly nasty clipping sound. Running straight from an aux is better... but remember - there has to be enough oomph coming from your source for the Woojer to action pulsate... So running a low signal and trying to boost it at the Woojer isn't particularly successful. In short, the gain staging has to be bang on... and this can take a bit of work... especially under the pressures of a gig. (Monitors always get the least time, right?). Even if you get things hitting exactly unity however, the results may not be what you want... read on. 3. The Woojer seems to like stuff under 100Hz, which is understandable - after all, it's meant to be doing the job of a subwoofer. Problem is, on a standard aux feed (eqing on the main out - whilst watching you don't go into clipping) , if you boost too much, two resulting things are at risk - your inears can't take the bass (I was experimenting pushing circa 10dB), or the resulting sound in your inears is just mush. Better results are achieved through subtractive eq... eg. leave the bass where it is (or maybe just boost a little) and bring everything else down. 4. As I alluded to above in my pre monitoring desk predictions, to make this device great, you have to really consider your live mix as a studio mix - so we are looking at running compression and appropriate gain boost before it is summed on the (non clipping) output. Trouble is, for most desks, this is achieved in the post DSP, or post Fader function... so what you do the mix for your inears will impact front of house. What sounds great in your ears may sound too squished for front of house, or vice versa. If you can run a mulitcomp (Behringer guys - Combinator) on your mix, you are going to have a much greater pumping mix to hit your inears chain post the desk. As soon as I started introducing a limiter/compressor, things started to really tighten up and pump on the Woojer. The problem with this is though, for vocalists, you don't want to start compressing too much... or all of a sudden, you'll find that the singers will start backing off the mics as they are a lot more present in the mix. 5. You can get around the issue of 4 by running either a. duplicating channel inputs and assigning to different channels (or direct from your amp maybe - but then you may not get the most feedback due to the lack of compression), so you have an inear channel that goes onto the aux (post DSP) and a front of house channel as usual or b. run a split and use a separate monitor desk. I appreciate that b. is a costly option that doesn't suit everybody, their budgets... or if their aim is to keep things portable. 6. Running a separate aux for your Woojer is cool... so you can put say kick and bass in a separate aux and mix that to your hearts content and send that straight to the Woojer. Downside of this is - more auxes used... or if you are running radio, you have to run two radio to keep your stereo mix... or use focus mode so you have mono going to your ears and the other channel going to your Woojer. Of course, if you are already out of Auxes, this isn't great either. So in short, compression is the order of the day... and for anybody without a digital desk, with enough channels so they can split etc... it's a big extra complexity in the setup in order to get it working as good as I think it should be. Without doing all of this, the Woojer is a very weak tremor at best. But I have to say, with where I am at the moment (two desks with all the compression lined up and everything EQed nicely so it sounds great) it's a really good device. It has however, taken me best part of three hours of battling to get there... and I have a lot of processing, auxes, radio etc available to me, which I appreciate is not in the domain of most. On a gig, any slight deviation in gain structure and I don't know how long I would entertain it for before I got sick of adjusting the signal to it... and that's if just me had a Woojer... what about if everybody in the band had one. Anyway, I'm going to stick with it and see what I can learn in the field, so watch this space. Have a look down a few posts for my real world, in the field, experience...

My tongue was firmly in cheek

Thats where education has to come in - quieter on stage sounds, let the PA do the work. Less bleed into the mic, less stage rumble... better sound out front for the punters and less chance of you going deaf. But as I said, that is where education has to come in.

All the guys wanting a Wooojer update, I know that Gunsfreddy is looking for an update... I'll be putting it through my monitoring rig tomorrow night so will give it a good in depth review of how well it will work as a monitoring tool on a stage. I've been enjoying some music with it... some definite faves of mine to try, mostly because the Woojer really enhances what the music is doing but... Can't Stop Playing (Makes Me High) - Dr Kucho! & Gregor Salto [Oliver Heldens Vocal Edit] ((I think this is what the Woojer was designed for! If you haven't browned your pants after this one, your Woojer isn't up loud enough) Have to say though, Anne-Marie's Do It Right, is a bit of a belter on the Woojer also... although far from being one of my fave tracks. Anyway... My only concern at this time is all these tracks that I am listening to have been compressed, mastered and then limited so the tracks, especially the bass, punches hard. So just a short collection of pop stuff I've listened to (just thinking off the top of my head and remember as being quite fun with the Woojer on), e.g. Ghost - Ella Henderson, Come and Get It - John Newman, Shape Of You - Ed Sheeran, Symphony - Clean Bandit, Feels - Calvin Harris, 24k Magic - Bruno Mars (this one is cool), Can't Feel My Face - The Weeknd, What Do You Mean - Justin Bieber, Stitches - Shawn Mendes, Shake It Off - Tayor Swift, Can't Stop The Feeling - Justin Tumberlake, Ariana Grande - One Last Time (PS no taking the fosters out of my choice of music... anyway, Ariana Grande is a badass... check out her isolated vocals... up there with the best). I guess I'm sub consciously focusing on pop at the moment as I seem to be doing a lot of pop gigs at the moment (makes a change from the usual function fodder and disco - not that I'm complaining, I love playing the disco classics) All of these tracks kick the bass hard... yet if you go back a bit to not so modern recordings... things aren't quite the same... For example, I also listened to Chaka's version of We Can Work It Out... and the bass doesn't hit nearly as hard - it's a mere tremble in comparison in comparison. It's there but not in the same capacity of songs that have been mixed in modern studios. Same with Stomp! - Brothers Johnson... But having said that, songs like We Are Family, Car Wash,.... the hit hard....And if you want a song that you cant make your mind up about, try Never Too Much - Luther Vandross... it's like that bass is in and out (oo-er) throughout the song at random points (VERY RANDOM!!). So given that the majority of people that may be using the Woojer in a monitoring capacity are going to be using a mix that is likely off an AUX, it's likely that the mix is going to be pre DSP (e.g. no compression or EQ) with only a sprinkling of EQ that is off that aux out (if at all). SO.... my prediction is that in order to get the most out of the Woojer, you'll need to split a channel, probably for your bass and ideally the kick drum too, compress it hard and send that to your ears mix. By blending both the compressed and uncompressed signals, you are going to get an intelligible bass that kicks hard. Some people have probably gathered that I run two desks, one for front of house and one for monitoring so I can have a full on DSP enhanced ears mix independent of Front of House... so I'll report on that, as that is going to be similar to what you'd get from say a mastered recording with some compressors kicking hard in the lows... but I'll also talk do a review for you guys from one desk using just the aux and also doing a split as mentioned above. I've got high hopes for the Woojer, especially as a portable alternative to a big feedback board... but I suspect it may take a bit of tweaking to work so that it hits hard. Meanwhile, listening to music on it, is an absolute hoot. I'm currently sitting in a hotel room, past midnight, inears in, with my donkey shaking as if I'm sitting on a big 18 subwoofer. If you can pick one up at the right price, it's got to be worth it for that alone . The inbuilt amp seems great too... certainly has no problem driving my JH Roxannes LOUD. I shouldn't think it will have any issues with quality loss or being run in line with a EW300 or PSM900, or headphones amp. (Come to think of it, the Woojer may just replace the need for a headphone amp anyway... I'll test it out). I haven't tried it wired yet... only with bluetooth - which has been faultless... although for live use, the bluetooth latency will render it unsuitable for live use... so wired to the desk/inears pack it will have to be! PS - my current preference for the placement of the bass shakers, is with one on each of my hips. The sensation, weirdly enough, just seems bigger there than in the chest. I think Tonyf has come to the same conclusion. I am guessing that this will be where it will be most comfortable when wearing a bass too... and it should certainly give more sensation of a BIG speaker behind you when playing. So... I guess until later, the message is... Stay Tuned. Hope this helps.

I'm sure Doug will be sure to take the OP's advice, after all, It's clearly held back his career.

Many congrats! Nice work

The only things you have to consider are 1- monitoring (wedge, small rig or IEM 2 - are your foh pa speakers actually up to the job of putting the bass out as well as the rest of the stuff that has to go through then.

You need to look for effects cases... they are typically around 35 cm deep. Perfect for what you want. So... http://www.flightcasewarehouse.co.uk/manufacturer/product.asp?item=spider-3u-rackmount-flight-case-360mm-deep-5793-6631 Is a contender for starters. https://www.thomann.de/gb/thon_rack_3he_economy_ii.htm is another... The gator is a good call also - although strictly speaking, it's 1 cm too short, so the amp will overhang a gnats ck when the back door is off.