EBS_freak

Absolutely ridiculous. And to be honest, if s/he wanted the "valve sound", a smaller wattage amp being driven hard would yield a better sound at a hell of a lesser volume. That's the point... when you have got guys in the band turning up with big amps doing that, you are fighting a losing battle. Aren't all the big metallers on the Kemper and Axe FX train now anyway? Got to be easier carrying your rigs on a USB stick and hiring the hardware for your world tours...

Stainless DR Hi Beam for sure.

Im in agreement with you - those completely inappropriate cabs are usually the domain of the pub guitarists found round my way (Birmingham). Either that or something Mesa Rectumfryer/Fender Twin related. I think the most inappropriate rig that I've ever seen was a dual 4x12 Orange stack. Stupid. Lets face it, an AC30 is ridiculously loud and completely inappropriate for most gigs... its only nostalgia (like for most iconic amps) that keep those things selling.

I never knew they were big into dealing in vintage and rare stuff.

Thats the point - modern advances has meant we now have more options. Guitar amp wise, things are pretty much the same as they were back in the 60s. Yes, speaker tech has come on loads... but it seems that guitarists still want something akin to what was available back in the 60s to what the modern speaker can give them. That's cool... that's the tone they are going for. However, the modern modellers can give you that through the modern speakers. At the end of the day - and I must stress this - there's no wrong or right... backline vs PA power are both valid... and as can be seen from this thread, theres a lot of opinion on both methods. I would argue both are comparably priced - it's just about figuring out what gives the best sound and works best for your own circumstance.

Did you use the Wayback machine or something?

Al - you are quite right, there is a whole barrage of viewpoints going on here. 1 I think in short, I am saying that a decent PA that can handle the whole band is the way to go. 2 You will need monitoring - my preference is inears... but you will need something to use as a monitor. For IEMs this could be as little as £100 (and certainly wins on weight and portability). You could buy a wedge... this can go from 100s to 1000s. Pete actually uses a small Genz combo that he already had prior to buying his PA. With less noise coming from the stage and the FOH providing all your volume, the onstage monitoring needs are greatly reduced... unless your drummer is a clown and still insists on banging seven shades outta of it as opposed to making use of the mics on his/her kit... 3 When you are playing with another band who still have a "dino" setup, you could use the PA tops as your backline instead of a traditional rig. I think that's the general underlying message...?

I don't think @charic will ever achieve that though... Think he needs more give in his 80s metal slacks.

If you plug it directly into the mains, absolutely yes.

Here you go Jack, This could be the answer you are looking for.

Exactly!

When you getting your NX15SMA?

Or you could use a preamp/eq pedal pre EQ if you still want to cling onto something outside of the PA... Graphic or Parametric EQ, whatever your bag, it's there on pretty much every digital desk... and unlike your standard analogue, thats on all outputs, whether it's for a monitor mix or for front of house mix. Why wouldn't you want that flexibility?

Err yes.

You haven't played with a Helix, Kemper or AxeFX have you? Actually, scratch that... the amp modeler on the Behringer mixers alone is far more tweakable than an amp.

The point is, with a FRFR solution, you can use it as either backline or FOH! The FRFR is their combo. The FRFR solution is your rig. So the guitarist turns up with a modeler and a FRFR cab/s. The bass player turns up with a pre/modeler with FRFR cab/s. The drummers do what they want anyway... usually turning up with a completely inappropriate kit for the gig.

When did you last gig? The 80s? :-p

And still nobody mentions the improvement in sound quality when you've ditched the amps. re:drums just for anybody interested, acoustic drums are still the preference for any drummer. A drummer that turns up to a pub gig with a huge kit and super bright and loud cymbals is the local village idiot. In terms of micing, for pub gigs a lot of the time you'll just need kick. For larger venues, you can successfully mic with two mics. I personally never mic the snare directly unless I am micing the whole kit. On a two mic setup, i would choose to mic the kick drum and a single condenser mic on a high stand behind the drummers right shoulder, pointing directly across the kit at the snare. (Assuming drummer plays right handed). This way it'll get a good coverage of the kit, (hi hats and splash included) not just the snare. It sounds great in the inears also - if you are using them. PS - entry level wired inear monitoring can be achieved for way under 100 quid per person for somebody using ME6s. For something a lot better, for a 200 quid setup, consider something like UE900s. Read about it in the inear monitoring thead if you are interested. Also, check out the inear recording I put up in there and ask yourself if that isn't something you'd like on a gig. That level of monitoring is now affordable even in a pub band given the pricing of digital desks now. Link - Theres always going to be dinosaurs stuck in their ways. Tech has moved on. Not too long ago, PA that would take a full band going through them was prohibitively expensive. This isn't the case now as the tech is becoming a lot more affordable. Whether people choose to embrace it or not is another thing. I'm convinced that the amp route is on borrowed time now... but that's just me. I like an amp like the next guy... but the convienience of a PA doing all the work, the better monitoring that it opens up, wins it for me hands down. I don't care if people want to go the same route as me or not - I just like to correct statements that suggest a route like that is prohibitively expensive. You only have to read through the IEM thread to see what a revelation it has been for the people that have made the switch. And to be honest, you don't even have to go with IEMs... a serious wedge with your own mix of the whole band in it, with the foh doing all the real work, is another great option. The crazy thing is, nobody batts an eyelid about paying crazy money for backline but if I said the best sound you'll ever have is if you changed your say, 1000 quid boutique cab for a 1000 quid monitor that has both you and the band going through it, most people would not be interested... Not saying my opinion is worth more than anybody else's - but I've done both routes in anger. My IEMs for example, cost more than most peoples complete backline... but that's how much I have been sold on the alternative method of getting a band sounding the best it can both in my ears and out front. The other thing is, my sound is consistent in every venue and I can hear exactly what I want. When I was at the drum show, I was having a similar convo with a drummer whilst at the IEM stand. If you were on a gig with IEMs, you can hear everything you want to hear at a volume you want to hear them. Percussion on a gig? Great! I want to hear that shaker and Indian bells they got going on. Chances of enjoying that on stage without IEMs? Zero. You'll be lucky to hear anything over the drummer. Anyway, the point is, is that this stuff is now available to all - whether it's on a stadium gig or a pub gig. - and I guarantee your audience will appreciate the band more if they can hear everything clearly through the PA. A decent PA yields better high frequency horns too - so getting your vocalist heard over the band is easier... and that is further cemented that the quieter band sound on stage means less bleed into the mics. As I say, Dinos can be Dinos for all I care... but it's interesting to see all these old guys advocating that nothing but an amp would do are all deaf and wired up with hearing aids... but each to their own.

It depends what line of thought you have when trying to make your point though. I know there's people that don't get it and that's fine... but you need to see the PA speakers as a replacement for a bass amp, a keys amp, a guitar amp (or 2) and the means to make a tiny portable drum kit sound huge. Oh yeah... and that's before you get to the vocalists. That's a huge weight and size saving across the whole band. And in terms of volume, you aren't deafening everybody onstage and outfront, your decent PA speakers are not going to run out of steam before your combo. Meanwhile, your band is going to project properly... e.g. So unlike those guys that are standing off axis to a guitar amp, those guys that are hearing the whole band through the PA are going to hear a balanced mix wherever they are standing. With regard to band ownership of PA, I own it all anyway... because I'd rather take a pair of tops and some in ears to a gig and know the band is going to sound great. If I'm playing with another band, I can just take a top or two to use as my rig.

Depends... a RCF 735/745, Yamaha DX15... they'll quite happily put out a shed load of bass...

Ooh! Does that mean we going shopping?

You need to replace your cables and plugs for black ones!

Nope - that's why I mentioned them. As a PA, a pair of either will do better than a lot of 2 tops and 2 sub setups.

Any high quality PA speaker is going to get your there. My current faves would be something like a RCF 735/745. Anything will do for guitar... but for bass, you need some tops that can take some abuse in the lows.

Whats your budget?