EBS_freak

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1491229952' post='3271372'] Can't see any problems with people using processingrather than amps to get their sound in this band. Gone are the days of pandering to " I need my amp to get my sound" or "I have to play at a certain volume or I can't get my sound" Those dinosaurs are quite welcome to go and join another band, the audience don't give a sh*t as long as your instrument sounds like what it's supposed to be and they can hear the vocals enough to sing along to. Back line is only monitoring as far as I'm concerned, the PA should do the work. If I can hear you amp out front over the PA you're too loud. [/quote] If they need their amp to get their sound, well, there's no excuse now with the likes of the modelling stuff getting so good. Kemper, Fractal, Helix... well... plenty of opportunity to get your sound with that sort of gear. Re: hearing the backline over the PA - completely correct.

Maybe get a really nice monitor and preamp - then depending upon the situation you have a kick ass bass rig or a kick ass monitor...?

Been having a think about this - the only thing I can think of is that your bass signal is actually distorting at the desk (or prior to getting to the desk) or you have a problem with the driver in your sub. Alternatively Is your bass active? It could be the case that you are driving the DI to hard? Are the batteries in your bass on the way out - a lot of onboard bass preamps will go into distortion before giving up completely... What is the exact signal path between your bass and the desk?

The thing is, the concept of running bass rigs without PA support is dated - but people have got used to it and not moved on. "We've been doing it since the 60s and it's never failed us" is shortsighted thinking. There has been massive advances in music tech, so why not embrace it? Just because it's not how you do it, doesn't mean you shouldn't be open to change. Anybody who says that "it's the only way" makes me raise an eyebrow - the very same condescending response is said to me when I mention inears and for them to say "it's rubbish" - and I then find out they have been using their phone earbuds. The average set of portable PA speakers driven with a digital desk (with some now available cheaper than their analogue counterparts) is now capable of supporting a band though it - whereas historically, there was no chance. Drivers are more robust, louder and lighter - and a hell of a lot cheaper! Spend a couple of thousand on a pro monitor and you'll soon realise that your boutique bass amp is loaded with toy speakers, built to a budget to fit an ageing ideal. And if the "But they use backline at Glastonbury is brought up" - yes they do... mostly as stage decoration. The sound that you hear on stage is going to be via IEM or a nice set of wedges.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1491210982' post='3271164'] I'm in several bands and do plenty of deps. The [i]only[/i] way to make this work is to bring my own sound reinforcement. I'm doing it just right thanks. [/quote] Come back to me when you've got permanent ringing in your ears and your back has given out.

I'm with Phil - good choices there. The uniformity of the HKs would be good from a visual aspect - but I'm not sure how their - what looks to be - proprietary mount works. With churches, there's a lot of consideration as just putting speakers in - how are you going to mount it? How are you going to get the cables there... powered, passive?

If you get your IEM system right, you'll wonder why they even bother selling bass rigs. The reason a lot of guys poo poo the solution is usually because their experiences have been with a poor solution. Your sound is only as good as what you put in - so you need a good DI, good processing if you are into your fx and EQ that is for your ears and EQ that is for front of house. Most sound guys are too old school or too lazy to bother doing this. Secondly, you need good monitors - we spend shed loads of money on bass rigs but a lot of people expect peerless performance from a set of ear buds that they got free with their phone. Cheap wireless IEM doesn't cut it. There your bass shelved and with a poor compander, everything sounds pants... that's if you aren't suffering with static and dropout. So in short, if you aren't looking at ditching your rig, you aren't doing it right. The same is with wedge monitors... a decent wedge monitor should easily see off a bass rig - if you put a top end bass rig and equivalent monitor against each other, then cash for cash, the monitor should wipe the floor with the bass rig. Again, it all depends upon being able to get your mix right... and of course, you have the advantages of being able to get a mix of the other members in your wedge. The crazy thing is, like most monitoring situations, there's loads of people who will be prepared to drop over 2k for a bass rig... but would only ever consider spending a couple of hundred on a wedge - and then state that their monitors are crap in comparison.

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1490981256' post='3269624'] Ah, so could you also use this with a desk with no direct outputs, using one Aux mix instead? [/quote] You could - but there would be very little point as if you are summing to just one aux mix, it would mean that you would lose the ability to mix the individual channels separately to front of house. If you wanted lots of people to share one common monitor mix, something like this would be the way to go. http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-MicroAMP-HA400-Headphone-Amplifier/6M0

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1490874517' post='3268665'] If i started gigging again i just wouldn't bother with the cabs at all unless i had to have one. Even for a pub/club band having a PA doing the legwork will give you a much better sound than trying to mix everyones amps. [/quote] Exactly. But nobody ever seems to want to invest in a decent PA. Surprising really, because PA cabs components typical far exceed the components found in a lot of boutique cabs. Likewise, the EQ and compression options on modern, low price digital desks, will blow away the offering from your typical bass amp or dedicated bass preamp. Go figure! Its amazing how much cleaner and less swampy an ampless band sounds!

[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1490873361' post='3268647'] i'm surprised no-one has mentioned OBBM and his rock-wire range of cables, no where near as cheap as the ones you've linked to but they're as tough as they come and made to the exact length you want. [/quote] Its cos he asked for an opinion on a specific make of cable. Ask about a Ford and somebody rabbiting on about a Renault isn't particularly helpful! Have to agree though, if you want a decent cable, you'd be hard pushed to beat the handiwork of OBBM.

It's designed with the 12AX7 in mind... however, if you wish to lower the gain factor, you can go for 12AT7, 12AY7, 12AV7, 12AU7 (that reads from most gain factor to least gain). That's not to say that the amp will sound good with a lower gain or not, you'll have to experiment because the valve doesn't necessarily just impact the gain aspect of the tone. Of course, to add complications, not all 12AX7s are equal; you may want to talk to somebody like Geoff at Watford Valves who will do a great job in advising you - some sound naturally warmer, some break up earlier, some are less prone to being microphonic, some have a very low noise floor. It's like hifi, you'll like what your ears like... theres not necessarily a clear answer to what works best for you. I have a TD650... I don't actually like the tube circuit - I would favour solid state. On guitar amps however... well... my guitar amps have all sorts of mysterious combinations of tubes to fine tune the amp to my preference.

[quote name='Treb' timestamp='1490735476' post='3267590'] Ernie Ball will not sell you pickups. Big Poppa himself says so. Want a new MM pickup? Hand over the faulty MM one. [/quote] It's a good job that Big Poppa doesn't work in the motor trade... Could you imagine the ballache? That reminds me, I need some strings, going to pop the old ones in a jiffy bag so he can do the necessary.

[quote name='MarshallBTB' timestamp='1490854183' post='3268459'] First go of in ears at practice last night... Awesome ! Kit wasn't mic'd but had kick as that's triggered for us anyway. Still a bit of learning/adjusting to do with the QU24 but so far so good. Enjoying the UE900s as well, not that I have anything to compare them to but the sound was nice and clear. Only thing I would like to improve is the fit; the smallest foam buds are too big for me and the smallest silicone are slightly too small, so stood up and moving a bit there's a little bit of leak. So far so good though, can't wait to gig it. It's not been cheap but I was planning on getting a new cab(s), this seems to make more sense given the gigs we do. [/quote] re:UE900, the obvious move for perfect fit is getting them put into a custom shell... but that may not be financially viable for you at the moment? If not, it's just a case of finding the tips that fit you. For me, I could never get any that fit just right - hence my start on the customs journey. You may have more luck than me! Sounds like you are onto a winner though. Let us know how you get on post gig. I've often said this to people - spending money on IEM is an expensive game... but if you consider them as a cab replacement, "Bergs for your ears", the cost isn't that different really. It's just that there's less sizeable goods to show for your money! If the PA is doing the grunt work (which it should be doing anyway), it makes sense to have better monitors in your ear as opposed to volume wars with a cab... and it will clear up your bands sound greatly. (No bass leaking into open mics etc)

Ah, OK, can't really tell how well they are made from the pics... you need to see under the plugs and check the quality of the soldering and heat shrink (if there is any). Maybe worth taking a punt for the money if you have an interest in them... and then report back!

Fabric cables are generally bad news in my experience... play one grotty venue and they pick up the dirt and are impossible to clean up. At least with rubber insulated cable, you can get a cloth and some washing up liquid and clean them all up.

I was talking to somebody about their potential IEM solution - they were looking for 5 individual mixes (preferably stereo) from an analogue desk. When they told me what the desk was (Soundcraft FX16ii) I told them that they'd be lucky given the number of auxes they had to play with. I did notice that this particular mixer had direct outs for all the 16 channels and suggested that they could get an extra mix by submixing to another mixer... but it would all be a bit Macgyver. But then I remembered seeing some products a good free years ago... (cleared ripped from Aviom! - true Behringer style..) So if you are one of these guys that don't want to go digital but want to explore IEMs further, I remembered that if you have a desk with direct outputs as above, then there is the nifty P16-i from Behringer for just short of 200 notes. Then, you can get up to 6 P16Ms to plug into it. Cheaper than a load of ipads/android devices but still gives you remote control over individual mixes from an analogue mixing desk source. And if you do turn to digital, there is an immediate upgrade path to the XR18 or X32 (the P16-I would then become obsolete) Just a thought to ponder on. The Aviom system is an alternative also - but would cost a substantial amount more - about double for the mixers and £750 for the input module... but if you go digital, its Dante so if your digital desk allows for that (usually a plug in card) ... then that is the sex. (For a small band however, this is still something that can be achieved with a desk with a high aux count)

[quote name='Danj' timestamp='1490399924' post='3264973'] On that basis here is my dodgy picture of the wired IEM solution I am setting up based on my conversation with Russ the main man: [url="https://s3.postimg.org/xu7pccbn7/IMG_1193.jpg"]https://s3.postimg.o...n7/IMG_1193.jpg[/url] [/quote] Dan - I would highly recommend changing the IEM/Instrument hybrid cables in your solution to OBBMs - OBBMs headphone cable is not made with moulded jacks and sockets for a start, so if you do have an issue, you have more of a chance of a decent repair without losing cable length.

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1490779173' post='3267824'] At last I have a solution for combo IEM cables. See Affiliates section for more information. [/quote] I thought that you had this nailed for a while? Anyway, great work. I'm sure that this will go someway in helping everybody make the move to IEM solutions. I bought a real of hybrid multicore off eBay - never found out who made the cable though - and OBBM is a much better at soldering than I am... so this is defo the route I shall take if I need a cable. I have never had one of his cables die on me... (probably because they are soldered properly unlike other guys/mass produced machine tagged solder joints). Now we just need to find a tiny headphone amp that will take up next to zero room on a pedal board... EDIT - something like this - https://www.gak.co.uk/en/electro-harmonix-headphone-amp/70768 ...but in stereo. (I can't find anything that states that is accepts a stereo input)

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1490780996' post='3267853'] Oooh! Is that a combined stereo feed from the mixer and instrument cable in one? [/quote] That would be it.

Im tempted to get a vehicle that I can't get stuff in the back... I'm currently adding 40 minutes onto every gig journey picking up band members and their equipment.

For an alternative, check out glow resin.

The majority of these small format mixers are great so first of all, I think you are going the right way in going digital. The X18 app for iOS is not as developed as it is for Android. Don't know if you are an iOS user or an Android user - but defo worth consideration. Great that is has a PC/Mac client though. Its certainly the most comprehensive on the outboard/fx route. The multitrack recording - if it's something that is of interest to you - is the killer feature that sets itself apart from the competition. Also worth chucking the 1608 by Mackie into the mix - but you will need to budget for a router also (and it is also iOS only) if you want to use wireless. I think it has by far the easiest to use interface out of all of them and with the latest two releases of Master Fader, it has a strong reverb available to it - which historically was the weak point of the Mackie stuff. The other big plus about this one... is that the iPad is dockable... meaning that if you have wifi woes, you have a physical connection easily available to you without carrying more external equipment around with you. All inbuilt wifi is pretty pants in my experience - defo one for having a play at home or rehearsal... but for live use, I'd definitely want a more resilient router. There will be as many people who will have an opposing view but there you go. Check out the Facebook forums for the Behringer X stuff and you'll see it comes up on pretty much a daily basis.

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1490464474' post='3265336'] ... and why on earth (Flat or Spheroid) two Jack speaket speaker connection, but only one Speakon? Does anyone still use jacks for speakers these days? [/quote] I suspect the guitar version will follow... Jacks take up less chassis room too.

As an alternative to TRS to XLR, you may consider using an adapter like this - http://www.ipswichpa.co.uk/trs-jack-to-xlr-male-adaptor-7855-201-p.asp That way you can standardise nose of your cables to XLR to XLR. No difference to the XLR to TRS in the grand scheme of things though.