EBS_freak

Barts actually really work for me... For me, I don't like the top end of the East circuits, Audere or Sadowsky (in isolation at least - I should state that the Sadowsky sound really cuts through in a band situation and sounds great) - but theres plenty of people that make them sound great. I would say stick with the Bart preamp before looking at anything else - but that's just me. The biggest change in sound is going to come from a change in preamp... they defo do sound different as they all spec different frequencies for their treble, mid and bass - and different qs. I think Bart are really underrated - and have become stuck with an image that they are the "off the shelf option" - there's a reason why a load of luthiers use them. They do the job great.

The mixer would give you the front of house mix, not an aux mix but if only vocals are in question, that may be enough... but what you certainly don't want is an ambient mic going through front of house.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1483961140' post='3211366'] Is it possible to use a single mic front centre of stage to feed a very rough overall backline stage mix of the band into the IEMs? Seems it would be less hassle than micing/DIing and subsequent mixing of the whole band. [/quote] Yes - AKA as ambient mic. Ambient mics (preferably condenser mic due to their pickup pattern) can be placed wherever you need them to be - facing the backline, facing the audience... they are typically panned left and right when running stereo IEMs to give back the 3D image which performers often complain about being lost.

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1483958246' post='3211336'] Would not rule out option 4 completely - desks like the Behringer X18, Soundcraft Ui16 and RCF M18 can provide individual mixes for less than £500 new if you shop around... I'm umming and ahhing about pulling the trigger on one of these at the moment.. [/quote] Option 4 is a bit of a joke I have with Jim - it is actually the most correct solution. If you go into the monster IEM thread in the accessories forum, you'll see a lot of mixers, including some of the ones that you have mentioned, have been talked about at great length.

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=3][color=#000000]OK - so you probably have figured that the best way of using IEMs is putting the whole mix through your ears but it reads like you don’t particularly want to go this route. (Be aware that you can have your backline going through your desk for monitor purposes, without going out to front of house so if you want to use your backline for front of house without using the PA speakers, you still can).[/color] [color=#000000]Guitarists are always against IEMs and can never give you a proper reason why they shouldn’t use IEM. Let them learn - I’ve managed to get even the most stubborn guitarist onto IEMs. (I put a talk back system in place and he felt out of it when the jokes were being cracked and he couldn’t hear them).[/color] [color=#000000]In theory - and to some extent in practice, you can use an IEM system for vocals only - but your results will vary and be unpredictable. The reason I say this, is that if you aren’t micing up your backline, putting a vocal feed into your ears and you are still wanting to hear the backline, the success depends on how much of the backline you are picking up through your vocal mic… and how leaky your inears are. The second point is the key one. If there is too much isolation on your inears, you aren’t going to be hearing your backline. At which point, you’ll be tempted to take one of your inears out. From a protecting your ears point of view, this is one of the worst things you can do because you will then start pumping up the volume of the inear that is in your ear and you run the risk of permanent damage to your ear. Isolation is not necessarily a bad thing - I would rather have isolation than a swampy sounding stage. Conversely, with careful placement of ambient mics, there is no reason why you can’t have a natural sounding environment in your inears. Basically, the best IEM solution is that which occludes everything from the outside world and the only thing that you can hear, is what is piped into your ears through the mix. If you want ambient sound, use ambient mics.[/color] [color=#000000]A common thing is read on here about inears not giving people what they want is because they can’t really do it on the cheap. You need a good source - what you put into your desk is what is important. Crap in, crap out. You need a good desk with an appropriate number of auxes with ideally an EQ on those outputs. You need good transmission of that output to your ears, whether that is wireless or wired. Go wired because cheap wireless doesn’t cut it. Finally, what is in your ears is crucial. Apple buds are not quality inears. They will not give you the seal and bass response that you crave in a live situation. You only have to look through the latest entries in the monster IEM thread in the Accessories section of the forum to see peoples views on that who have been there and subsequently upgraded. Basically, if you can't meet the requirements of any of those steps, you are destined for a sub standard, even miserable, IEM experience.[/color] [color=#000000]The good news is though, if you are looking at wired for a starting point, it will cost you very little to experiment to see if a minimal setup can work for you.[/color][/size][/font]

Yup, any small mixer will do the job for you.

Hootenanny backstage...

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483871744' post='3210685'] Yeah - this is gloriously simple but it screams 'Pot luck'. If there's a bit chunk of money involved, I'd be reluctant to take the risk on this method. [/quote] Perhaps - but the company involved had said to me that they had never any issues with the process so who knows?

It's not as difficult as it is being made out above. Check out the below - [url="https://www.fedex.com/gtm/pdf/USF076.pdf"]https://www.fedex.co.../pdf/USF076.pdf[/url] (Document is 19 CFR 10.1 - Domestic products; requirements on entry.) I returned an £2k item (insured shipping was £100 - ouch!) to the States and it was pretty straightforward... you fill in the above item and send it with the item. A similar form is completed for the return journey by the vendor. My post office were pretty clued up - but I would wager it's pretty much pot luck on that front. No hold ups or anything - it did get checked - and it was all like clockwork. Hope this helps!

http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/reshells-remoulds/reshelling-remoulding-service-for-in-ear-monitors.html Check the above for reshelling in the UK through Paul at the CIEM company. You'll need to get some impressions done of your ears... choose your design... submit your donor IEMs... and wait. Payment will factor into there at some point too!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1483796026' post='3210182'] No U2 have chosen in ears for the windmill gig tonight [/quote] How very unsporting.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1483795687' post='3210175'] Can you make the tickled trout tonight for £50? [/quote] Are the d&b monitors not out elsewhere then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUu1bYDz5GU Ah yes, the old drumming on the bass trick. This is a fully loaded GB Rumour with full sound to light system that was loaned to Mika's bass player for this tour. It was retuned to Bernie with big dents through to the wood in the paintwork, cracked pickups and generally looking pretty fked all over. It required a full strip, fill, refinish, two new pickups... and resulted in a bass that can never be sold due to the amount of filler in the wood under the paintwork - It would bring all of Bernie's basses into question if the paint was ever removed... When questioned wtf happened to it, apparently the bass players bangles were hitting the bass whilst he played. MC - he must think we are all stupid. The Internet has a strange way of revealing the truth.

Jim, cheapest approach would be a XLR splitter. Method 1 Mic -> Split1 -> Desk -> Aux send to IEM Mic -> Split2 -> Monitor (assuming powered monitor - if not, tell me more about what your setup is) Method 2 Depending upon what the IEM system is, you can have two inputs into the IEM mixer and run it in stereo focus mode. This means from the pack you can blend she can blend how much she wants to hear of herself in relation to the band mix which is coming in on the other feed. Then you can do a pass through on the out from the transmitter into your monitor for just the vocal into the wedge. Method 3 Little mixer in front of main mixer. Mic goes into this little mixer. Left out goes to the desk, right out goes to the monitor (or IEM depending on which way round you want to drive your monitor feeds). [s]Method 4[/s] [s]Get a desk with more auxes and satisfy everybody with their own mix.[/s] PS it sounds like you are getting shafted on the mix by the keys player.

These are custom pickups... yamaha is your best bet... or if you can get them rewound, or you are looking at a complete ground up custom. Epoxy cast would probably be best, using your original pickup to create the impression.

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1483695434' post='3209278'] My biggest problem when playing was the isolation the IEM's gave me, so be careful. The custom moulds will be even more isolating than the cheap IEM you have just now. Our desk had no more channels for ambient mic(s) and even when I did manage to try an ambient mic, it picked up so much stage noise it was hardly worth it. Because of this, our keyboard player eventually went for the ACS Live! system but at over £1000 it ain't cheap. I went for the new Westone AM Pro 30 IEM as a compromise. Fantastic, giving me a 12db noise reduction so I can still hear the other guys/girls onstage when not playing or when someone from the crowd speaks to me but when the music starts it's the band mix I hear. Triple drivers which aren't perfect, I know, but still giving a decent bass response through them. [/quote] Some people like the isolation. I'd take isolation over a boomy, highly reflective stage. I'm trying to understand you ambient mic problems - what was the major problems with it? The only reason I say this, is that if you can't get on with ambient mics, the Live! systems is unlikely to help you out either. Theres no reason, for a static position on stage, ambient mics through the desk can't actually be better than the Live! system. With proper condensers, panning and shelving EQ, a decent set of ambient mics should blow the mini mics on the ACS ears out of the water. I'm not talking theoretical, I have the ACS live system... and although I do think it's a great concept, I do also think it is flawed for high SPL or for people that crave bass (distortion city). (The fact that ACS don't do dual low inears is a bit of a downer too - although that's not likely to change any time soon as the MD doesn't subscribe to the idea of having that much acoustic energy being pumped into the ear drum - means that for drummers and bassists, ACS don't deliver as well as the competitors in the lows). I know we've talked about the Westones and their ambient abilities. I still want to try them out as experience has shown me that any ambient port to the outside world means a loss of bass response... I know the Westone blurb contradicts this.

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1483683812' post='3209211'] My UE900s arrived yesterday. Got them from Toby deals for £174.99 inc delivery but the trade off is it took 12 days for them to arrive. As mentioned before I've been using mee m6s until now. Initial impressions are that the UE900s are a big step up. Just a much stronger, more balanced and more detailed sound with bass that is solid and not boomy. Not as comfortable as I had hoped but I'm having them re-shelled into custom moulds at the end of the month anyway so a moot point for me. I'll update once that's done. [/quote] £174.99 is a good price. So which re-shells are you going for? Inearz? Please do post the before and after pics of the reshell!

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483700598' post='3209332'] The real truth could be anything. The fact is, we don't know what it is. [/quote] I don't know if it could be anything - there's certainly a lot of evidence in the performance that points to technical failings. I suppose the fact of the matter is that it's unlikely that we will ever get to the bottom of what those failings were.

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1483694973' post='3209275'] I don't get it. Even the most prepared technical crews can get it wrong, or have failures that happen out of their control. You must know this if, like me you have worked in pro audio. How do you know the wedges were working, to a point where they were useable? I too would always defend my fellow professionals when I can, but to say they are blameless, I think is wrong. I'll sum it up like this (like EBS_Freak has been doing). From the clips I've seen, she walks on stage and moans that her in-ears aren't working. She pulls them out to see if she can hear the track from out front or wedges but either she can't or it is too confusing with echo/acoustics etc. She walks to the front of the stage and tries to listen to the monitors, but doesn't seem to like that either. This doesn't smack to me as someone who has always had it perfect and has never dealt with tech issues before. She was trying. Whatever your opinions on the professionality of how she dealt with it, something obviously wasn't right. I have done shows for local cabaret acts who have had bigger diva strops than that, but it was usually because something wasn't working, or heaven forbid after an exhausting 11 hour day I'd missed a mute button somewhere in the chain. Not something I'd be proud of, but I'd resolve it and then hold my hands up and apologise afterwards. On the clip I saw, she did suffer it for a while (more than one song) before she walked off. If that was my crew, I'd have had someone on stage with a spare beltpack or with their ear to the wedges in minutes - I saw no evidence of that. I'd also say that if her version of events is true, then if she repeatedly said "they're not working" backstage, and her crew or whoever told her "they'll be fine when you get on stage" - then that person/persons needs a good kicking, IMHO. [/quote] That's exactly how I see it too... Mariah's actions seem to be entirely genuine and point to a technical balls up. I reread the list that Wiggybass posted and a number of things started to ring bells. I'm not having a go at anybody anywhere, just trying to provide a reasoned response to some of the statements that have been made. RF is not a static thing - just because the airwaves were clean at soundcheck, doesn't mean that they are going to remain clean. The additional lights, TV crews etc... will all have had an impact on the RF throughout the day. Just because the frequencies were booked out to them, doesn't mean that they weren't going be suffering with intermodulation issues when other RF sources came online. With regard to the monitors working and the IEMs working, the sound company can say what they want as they know full well that there is no way of anybody being able to validate this statement. Anybody tach side/onstage who would go against this story, is unlikely to ever be hired again and probably not even allowed to comment due to the the NDA that they apparently signed. How you react in a problem situation - as huge_hands states, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of reacting going on from the tech team. Standard response is to have a backup IEM pack going onstage to her. The different mixes... whatever mixes were being sent, that would appear to be a secondary problem - there was clearly something more fundamentally wrong with the transmission, rather than the content. "They'll be fine when you get on stage" - yeah, because 30mw/100mw (depending upon what system they were using) radio transmissions (e.g. pretty strong) is fussy about front and backstage. If they are using the Shure systems, it may even be as stupid as somebody not re-engaging the RF transmission switch... so the routing is all there... but no radio! I guess the real truth behind it all will be covered up in favour of making Mariah looking like a diva... or giving her a good kicking because she actually has more talent than most modern pop acts.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483657636' post='3209165'] Well, she's made gazillions of quid out of doing it her way, but now it's bitten her on her the arse. [/quote] And that's a big bite. Still comes down to the fact she is more in a theatre role than the stuff the majority in here can relate to.

I agree with all of the above - but unless MC is very good at acting, there's defo something going on with the feed to those IEMs.

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1483650948' post='3209069'] EBS_freak - is that because you're freakishly an expert on Every Bloody Subject? [/quote] I know nowt about football if that helps.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1483638715' post='3208958'] Putting aside the fact that there's probably nothing in those cabs, when your on-stage monitoring is at worst a combination of wedge monitors and side-fills and more likely in-ears and FoH is handled entirely by the PA, I don't think the dispersion characteristics of the bass rig are even remotely relevant. [/quote] I don't think he cares about that either.

Can't help you on the speaker front... but man, what an unsung hero of an amp. Had a LC15R for about 3 years. Still regret selling it.

Its all about the clay dots!