EBS_freak

[quote name='BassX2' timestamp='1452704438' post='2952663'] The fact Dave Swift is well known on the UK scene, on or off the TV, definitely must have some influence on sales.[/quote] why? [quote]His credibility means that people know he wont endorse or recommend anything he wouldn't use or is not using .[/quote] How can you be so sure? Perhaps Dave is a gear whore like the rest of us... and if he can get an endorsement on anything ("enwhoresement" as some may know it) to get gear either free/artist rate, why wouldn't he take the opportunity? I would like to think that he pays the same price for "the majority" of his custom basses - but I suspect he is in a position where he can negotiate a discount to "work with" the manufacturer to "boost" their brand. A mutual benefit between the two parties if you will. How can you measure how much DS has boosted Aguilar? In any other industry, the guys at the pursestrings would want quantifiable figures. [quote] Considering the high profile gigs he does, Jools and multiple others, obviously the equipment he uses has to be not only adaptable but the best. This must be helping sales? [/quote] Aren't we in the position now where most equipment would fulfil those requirements? How adaptable does bass gear have to be - especially for the tones that Dave requires? [quote] Regardless of the player, surely any high profile player who can be heard on TV regularly will be helping people to choose and secure those sales. [/quote] You'd think? But I'm not too sure it translates to actual sales.

A good point! I would also wager that what you hear coming out of your TV on Jool's show actually has little to do with the Aguilar. It would be uncommon if the sound engineers didn't take his DI (which I can see that is used from his Aggie) preEQ so that ultimately, they are in control of what the listeners hear. In fact, I'm quite surprised to see that the DI isn't taken before the amp such that if anything were to happen to the amp, the performance can go on uninterrupted. As for studio recordings, all bets are off anyway - because with the amount of processing available in the modern studio, it's kind of inconsequential what bass preamp, amp, etc that are using... You can squish, expand, tweak, poke the sound to be pretty much anything you want. For me, I guess the biggest "sellers" of amps and basses are the layman guys already using it. For staters, there are no questions raised about whether they have been given their gear for free/discount. You only have to look on here to see the reputation that Barefaced/OBBM have got - and to my knowledge, they have no "hard hitters" in terms of endorsers.

[quote name='Alec' timestamp='1452700475' post='2952582'] Surprisingly low capacity, 16kg, mind. Maybe no surprise that it's failed if that's the spec of the original, given that the cab is 24kg. And, of course, would be better to be able to order from a UK source... [/quote] 16kg isn't low really - That's a 32kg loading capacity between the two casters on the bottom of the cab. 12kg to spare (e.g. half the weight of the cab again) is pretty generous. UK source - don't think TCH is common in the UK - Adam Hall and the Chinese rip offs seem to have that sewn up. Besides, the cost of the components and getting them to the UK isn't going to break the bank - especially when it's for a like for like replacement... shouldn't even be liable to customs charges.

Really? Not being an arse here, but I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is true. I've never met any bass player who has said they have bought anything because of "x" player, let alone Dave Swift. But then again, I'm not a marketing guy or in charge of purchasing for a shop so what you saying could be true! My viewpoint, and I may be pretty ignorant here, is that Aguilar have a set of products that are loaded with selling points - which in themselves make the products sell. The DB750... what's their competition? Well, theres not many big block amps like that to choose from certainly... and the THs are great products which sound very different to the MarkBass, TC, Genz etc with what they are competing against. Aguilar seemed to have nailed that "vintage influenced but lightweight" in terms of their class D stuff. I would have thought that alone would be a bigger selling point... How many people have bought Dingwall, Citron, Sadowsky, Fodera, Rob Allen, XYZ because of seeing/hearing them in Swifty's hands on the TV? I would wager that those people are in single figures, if present at all. Conversely, Berg have zero endorsers... yet seem to have put them in a position of high visibility and with a great reputation. Now whether they as a brand are selling cabs in a comparative number to Aguilar, I wouldn't know. My gut feeling is that the endorsement thing is primarily to score points over a different brand - "we've got x player" - but I don't think the consumers really care... but I do think consumers are impressed by pages full of endorsers - as stated before and in your last paragraph Barrie... especially if they are guys that they have heard of. I still don't reckon there's many people buying on the strength of one person using it, with MK being the notable exception.

[url="http://www.tchweb.com/tchstore/product/511-2295/c854/2-5-8--Recessed-Edge-Mount-Caster.html"]http://www.tchweb.co...unt-Caster.html[/url] http://www.tchweb.com/tchresource/files/pdf/511-2295854-CUST.pdf

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1452642319' post='2952050'] I had Schaller but they kept coming loose. [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/70420-schaller-strap-locks-and-how-to-fit-them-properly/

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452615001' post='2951689'] Choosing a bass is so much easier when you first start out... Is it made of a quality tonewood, is it a respectable brand?, decent pickups / preamp? The weight, any neck dive, high action etc? Who cares about any of that crap? ...It is Sparkly Silver? Yes it is... job done... Mikey who? [/quote] I had to look him up too. My Chemical Romance it would seem.

[quote name='linear' timestamp='1452615181' post='2951692'] That endorsement seems to be of a less common kind, where it's not so much that he plays the bass himself. The idea that he would happily use the basses professionally is there, but the main selling point is the idea that he was personally involved in the design of the bass; that it's the kind of instrument at a particular price point that he wishes was available when he was starting out. It's more 'Miller approved' than 'as played by Miller'. [/quote] Like the Flea bass I guess.

There's only one string advert that has made me sit up and take note... but mostly because I started thinking about how that practices like this can't be good for your teeth! Still... it sticks in memory so the advert working on that front... and I can also remember that it was for Elites. And it was Cass Lewis. Would it make me want to buy the strings? Not really. And floss is a much more sensible choice for the application shown in the picture.

[quote name='Luulox' timestamp='1452614072' post='2951674'] Marcus Miller seems to be shifting quite a few sires on here [/quote] But does Marcus actually use it? I know there's the video suggesting that he does.... but he's certainly remembered for his Fender bass over a Sire...?

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452613260' post='2951656'] Are you allowed to say that about your own thread But yes, quite an eye opener. [/quote] It would have been a bit pants if nobody had engaged in conversation! (Most people just ignore me, so this is kind of a novelty!)

PS Ace thread by the way, enjoying it immensely.

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1452611714' post='2951640'] Warwick seem to do most of their ads as endorsements. This months BGM has an up and coming Bassist 'Adam Clayton' ( never heard of him) on P3 and on p 89 12 Professor Bassists for their imminent Bass Camp. Last month Warwick had 'Robert Trujillo' in BGM, Aquilar had Paul Turner[...] [/quote] That reminds me... having Warwick and a Jamiroquai bass player next to each other... Zender shifted a lot of Warwick basses in his Jamiroquai heyday... Not sure if he has much influence now... I don't think so. The Zender signature doesn't seem to have sold in great quantities either - not that I'd know, just that I know I haven't stumbled across any on the forums.... The only one I do know of, is the red one Stuart had made for him... and that is now in the hands of a mutual friend. I don't think Paul Turner is influencing sales much...? Maybe Barrie knows differently?

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452610589' post='2951617'] but does suggest to me that it is a pretty healthy market (far bigger than I expected when I first weighed in on the thread)! [/quote] Agreed - quite an interesting discovery!

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452610283' post='2951609'] A hell of a lot of people I would think, when they're starting out at least. The reason the first ever decent bass I bought was a Rickenbacker 4001 is because most of the players I was into used them & I loved the sounds they got out of them. You have to start deciding what gear you want at some point, and lots of people base that decision on what their favourite players use or what their favourite bass sounds are. Seems perfectly logical to me. [/quote] For me, it was Macca and the violin bass. Still never owned one though... because as my playing progressed, I realised that a Hofner was not for me for what I wanted to be doing. Who were the 4001 users that gained your interest?

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1452610151' post='2951607'] Is there a difference between endorser and signature model, in that the former is a user of a product whereas the latter is a version of a product with someone's name on it (that they may, or more than likely may not, use) ? [/quote] There can be an overlap. If you have a signature, chances are you are an endorser! Edit : Unless you are Richard Bona and Tecamp.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452610019' post='2951604'] For who? Not the manufacturers. If you check those charts I've just posted, Thomann's sales volumes are amazing. My pal used to manage GAK, and they couldn't hold a candle to Thomann, who were selling nearly as much Fender and Gibson gear as the whole of the UK. [/quote] Those charts don't give you sales figures though... and I've offered up a theory above as to why Thomann shift signature models. Maybe the number of reviews are more telling as to how many units are being shifted? I dunno... But Thomann's marketing is second to none. It's the fact they carry so much stock... and stock from budget to top end... and sell a much wider range of products than GAK. That gets you a lot of buying power... the ability to factor in a lot of discount... and voila, a lot of disgruntled competitors who can't compete.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452610005' post='2951602'] In the unlikely event I was in a position to command endorsements, strings would be number one on my list of useful things to not have to pay for.... [/quote] Damn right!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609695' post='2951598'] Interesting thread EBS_freak, you've got me researching now. Thought of Steve Harris, and then remembered Thomann do a sales rank. Here is there P Bass sales ranking, so it looks like these signature models do sell well - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_rank.html?ar=355172&sid=95fb154e4a4f36e2bdbbe6a1994d2386"]http://www.thomann.d...dbbe6a1994d2386[/url] [/quote] Wow - Nate Mendel at number 11. This now makes me think that people go to Thomann's to buy signature models because it's generally the case that the standard stuff that is stocked on the high street - and people buy there and only go to Thomann because the signature model is available to buy there and then? But this Thomann list doesn't give you the number sold... it's ranking by popularity... maybe a Fender AM Vintage 63 P-Bass 3CSB at position 10 outsells a Fender Nate Mendel P Bass at 11 at a rate of 10:1?? Oh-oh, we're into maths and stats now.

I'm beginning to think endorsements are on the whole, a waste of time!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609271' post='2951584'] Signs of a few signature Status basses having been bought - a quick look at the Statii forum (not the easiest to browse), and certainly, for a low level production, high cost bass, some people have been buying them. Sure, not the high levels of your OP [/quote] Statii forum is very niche though - thats the place you would go to look for Status specific stuff I guess. In comparison - You don't have to go very far on here to stumble across a Kingbass/Sire/Marcus Miller Signature/Pino Signature/Jaco Signature..... I don't recall ever stumbling across a CW bass on here or Talkbass.

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1452608896' post='2951575'] Those endorsements will help sales to new people picking up the instrument more than seasoned players, at least when it comes to current Fender. I doubt many veterans will bother buying a Clayton Jazz bass, partly because they probably already own a j, and partly because he isn't much of an inspiration to that many seasoned players. U2 fans tend to be older and will be more likely to afford a USA jazz even if they're just starting out. And the various Squier and Mex endorsements are also aimed at the Rock guys who are new to bass and need a reliable / recognisable point of entry. The Marcus bass is different, but like the Geddy it isn't a new phenomenon and is from a very different era. Endorsements that sell basses will only work as long as there are new emerging artists that appeal to a wider audience beyond bass players I think. Mark King was a pop star with wider appeal beyond bass, and had an undeniable influence on bass and probably continues to help sell stuff, but very few people under 45 know who he is now. For those endorsements to work, the word needs new Mark Kings. (not literally as that would be terrifying). Whether new musical virtuoso icons are even a possibility in a dying music culture and industry remains to be seen, but it might be at the root of the problem. Mainstream appeal or at least underground coolness is the key, and there's almost nobody new there who is visible on bass at the moment. [/quote] I think - and I alluded to this earlier I think - that MK is a dream endorser... because he is still current with the fanbase... who are now of the age where they have mostly paid off their mortgages, kids left home and now have the loose change to buy the expensive gear. If MK solely appealed to teens, then his worth as an endorser is greatly diminished because even though he may be making the brand more visible, the guys that want the gear haven't got the money to buy it. As for underground coolness... I think thats the aforementioned Vanderklay plan. I notice he is hitting the London session bass player scene pretty hard...

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1452607008' post='2951536'] I would say Dingwall would have developed a fair amount more interest since Nolly (Periphery) started using them. [/quote] Actually, that's a good point. I don't really listen to that genre of music... but a bass player mate of mine, who I hadn't spoken to in ages talked about this guy using Dingwall... and how great it sounded with (I think he said this) some Darkglass fx - so I guess he noticed!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452607299' post='2951543'] Too many.,.. and amps and cabs, IMO. [/quote] It's OK saying that... but... Examples?

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452607902' post='2951553'] I'd have thought Chris Wolstenholme has been responsible for a few sales - although not sure if they would be of endorsement/signature items. [/quote] Certainly the Deep Impact. I wouldn't like to say re: his signature Status - I wouldn't have thought so. I don't think I've ever seen anybody apart from CW with one. The same certainly can't be said about the Kingbass!