EBS_freak

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452610019' post='2951604'] For who? Not the manufacturers. If you check those charts I've just posted, Thomann's sales volumes are amazing. My pal used to manage GAK, and they couldn't hold a candle to Thomann, who were selling nearly as much Fender and Gibson gear as the whole of the UK. [/quote] Those charts don't give you sales figures though... and I've offered up a theory above as to why Thomann shift signature models. Maybe the number of reviews are more telling as to how many units are being shifted? I dunno... But Thomann's marketing is second to none. It's the fact they carry so much stock... and stock from budget to top end... and sell a much wider range of products than GAK. That gets you a lot of buying power... the ability to factor in a lot of discount... and voila, a lot of disgruntled competitors who can't compete.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452610005' post='2951602'] In the unlikely event I was in a position to command endorsements, strings would be number one on my list of useful things to not have to pay for.... [/quote] Damn right!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609695' post='2951598'] Interesting thread EBS_freak, you've got me researching now. Thought of Steve Harris, and then remembered Thomann do a sales rank. Here is there P Bass sales ranking, so it looks like these signature models do sell well - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_rank.html?ar=355172&sid=95fb154e4a4f36e2bdbbe6a1994d2386"]http://www.thomann.d...dbbe6a1994d2386[/url] [/quote] Wow - Nate Mendel at number 11. This now makes me think that people go to Thomann's to buy signature models because it's generally the case that the standard stuff that is stocked on the high street - and people buy there and only go to Thomann because the signature model is available to buy there and then? But this Thomann list doesn't give you the number sold... it's ranking by popularity... maybe a Fender AM Vintage 63 P-Bass 3CSB at position 10 outsells a Fender Nate Mendel P Bass at 11 at a rate of 10:1?? Oh-oh, we're into maths and stats now.

I'm beginning to think endorsements are on the whole, a waste of time!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609271' post='2951584'] Signs of a few signature Status basses having been bought - a quick look at the Statii forum (not the easiest to browse), and certainly, for a low level production, high cost bass, some people have been buying them. Sure, not the high levels of your OP [/quote] Statii forum is very niche though - thats the place you would go to look for Status specific stuff I guess. In comparison - You don't have to go very far on here to stumble across a Kingbass/Sire/Marcus Miller Signature/Pino Signature/Jaco Signature..... I don't recall ever stumbling across a CW bass on here or Talkbass.

[quote name='project_c' timestamp='1452608896' post='2951575'] Those endorsements will help sales to new people picking up the instrument more than seasoned players, at least when it comes to current Fender. I doubt many veterans will bother buying a Clayton Jazz bass, partly because they probably already own a j, and partly because he isn't much of an inspiration to that many seasoned players. U2 fans tend to be older and will be more likely to afford a USA jazz even if they're just starting out. And the various Squier and Mex endorsements are also aimed at the Rock guys who are new to bass and need a reliable / recognisable point of entry. The Marcus bass is different, but like the Geddy it isn't a new phenomenon and is from a very different era. Endorsements that sell basses will only work as long as there are new emerging artists that appeal to a wider audience beyond bass players I think. Mark King was a pop star with wider appeal beyond bass, and had an undeniable influence on bass and probably continues to help sell stuff, but very few people under 45 know who he is now. For those endorsements to work, the word needs new Mark Kings. (not literally as that would be terrifying). Whether new musical virtuoso icons are even a possibility in a dying music culture and industry remains to be seen, but it might be at the root of the problem. Mainstream appeal or at least underground coolness is the key, and there's almost nobody new there who is visible on bass at the moment. [/quote] I think - and I alluded to this earlier I think - that MK is a dream endorser... because he is still current with the fanbase... who are now of the age where they have mostly paid off their mortgages, kids left home and now have the loose change to buy the expensive gear. If MK solely appealed to teens, then his worth as an endorser is greatly diminished because even though he may be making the brand more visible, the guys that want the gear haven't got the money to buy it. As for underground coolness... I think thats the aforementioned Vanderklay plan. I notice he is hitting the London session bass player scene pretty hard...

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1452607008' post='2951536'] I would say Dingwall would have developed a fair amount more interest since Nolly (Periphery) started using them. [/quote] Actually, that's a good point. I don't really listen to that genre of music... but a bass player mate of mine, who I hadn't spoken to in ages talked about this guy using Dingwall... and how great it sounded with (I think he said this) some Darkglass fx - so I guess he noticed!

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452607299' post='2951543'] Too many.,.. and amps and cabs, IMO. [/quote] It's OK saying that... but... Examples?

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452607902' post='2951553'] I'd have thought Chris Wolstenholme has been responsible for a few sales - although not sure if they would be of endorsement/signature items. [/quote] Certainly the Deep Impact. I wouldn't like to say re: his signature Status - I wouldn't have thought so. I don't think I've ever seen anybody apart from CW with one. The same certainly can't be said about the Kingbass!

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452608627' post='2951571'] I shall retire to youtube and investigate... [/quote] The question is... will he make you want to buy Vanderklay gear?

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452608448' post='2951565'] To me yes definitely ... although on the subject of Mr Vega I've never heard anyone sound that good with a pick before, so the demo video inspired me to check out some more of his stuff. So in a way it was Mesa that put me on to him not the other way round [/quote] If you like his stuff, you may enjoy Cody Wright... emerging pick player.

[quote name='ern500evo' timestamp='1452607945' post='2951554'] I'd say in the case of signature basses it can even have the opposite effect. For years I wanted a Yamaha Attitude Ltd but always felt that if I turned up at a gig with one, people would be expecting masses of two handed tapping through a stereo rig at 500mph! Having said that, I'm at the age now where I don't really care about that, which is probably why I can't stop looking at Torvic's sea foam green ltd in the ads section! [/quote] I had a similar conversation with somebody about swirled Ibanez guitars. If you got one of those out at the local pub, you better make damn sure you can sweep, pick and tap to hell to avoid any cringe...

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1452608129' post='2951559'] Judging by Fenders current range there must be some sort of significant commercial mileage in signature models. Although who actually buys them is a bit of a mystery as most people I've come accross seem to be in the 'I don't want people to think I'm a wannabe suchandsuch' camp. Having said that I would love a Dee Dee precision or the latest Adam Clayton jazz, but that's because I find both models particularly aesthetically pleasing. [/quote] From what I understand, there's a lot of collectors of signature models... guys that can't really play but like to have a collection of guitars that are as "played by their heroes". Remember having an argument with an investor of these instruments once that a generic 60s strat would be a better investment than a modern day custom shop model. I can't see the sort of returns on vintage models being realised on signature models... But I guess not all collectors go for that. As for the Dee Dee and Clayton basses - would you prefer them without the signature on them though? - from what I understand, the artist association with these instruments is of no interest to you?

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452608002' post='2951557'] I had no idea who he was until I saw the video... So no but, I was definitely influenced by the sound the rig made when he was playing thorough it. Of course it wouldn't sound half as good with my picking technique though [/quote] Ha! So you could argue that his (presumably) endorser status is meaningless. Get any tasty player that could play in the same style would have hooked you. So... isn't great demos on Youtube (or at trade shows) more important than who is using them?

Just another thought - the power of endorsements... I guess it's not all about the individual themselves being able to shift gear - but the suggestion that a brand is good when a punter opens a catalogue and sees a load of pro players in there... Generates the "well, it must be good if all these guys are using it" thought pattern... So if this is the case, why would Aguilar push a full page spread of DS in a magazine as opposed to a full page spread of a few handfuls worth of "name" players ...?

Good call on amps... Again, MK has probably been responsible for selling enough TE, Ashdown and TC in his time... Did Flea do anything for Acoustic when he flirted with them briefly. Is he responsible for increased sales for GK? Does (did) Macca shift any Mesa 400s due to his using of them? If so, I'm guessing it would be insignificant compared to the bass sales that he's generated for Hofner...?

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452607403' post='2951545'] Having said that, I wanted to buy a new mesa subway rig after I saw this on youtube... [media]http://youtu.be/Q_2fqm73wGE[/media] [/quote] But was that because of Bobby Vega? If another unknown bass player had played exactly the same lines and sounded exactly the same... or it didn't disclose it was BV playing or his his identity, would you still be interested? What I'm trying to say, is your interest in this product influenced anyway because of Bobby Vega?

Yes - the Sire is probably a good example. The Flea bass is another good example... and I would actually wager he was responsible for selling a few Stingrays and Modulus in his time too. As for the Pino example, I guess we can add the Jaco fretless in that bag too.

Stemmed from the Scott Devine post, its got me thinking... Who, as a player, is big enough to influence a great number of people to buy the equipment that they are using. The only one I can really think of at the moment, is Mark King and Status. It doesn't really matter what the bass is, if it's a Status and MK uses it, you can guarantee theres a queue of people waiting to buy... many times without even touching the bass in question. Do other players really have the might to sell equipment like this? Dave Swift for example - loads of endorsements... but does anybody actually buy this stuff because Dave Swift uses it? How many extra units has Aguilar shifted because of his using of their gear. What about MXR? (Does DS actually require the effects pedals that he has to do the Jools gig?). Dunlop strings? And what about the streams of custom built basses that he's had over the years? Have any luthiers actually sold basses because he uses them? Has Dingwall sold more because of Lee Sklar using their gear? I suspect not...? And then we have the signature gear... do people really buy the signature stuff because somebody uses it... or do they buy it because a certain player uses it? I loved my BBNE2... but I think I would have preferred it without the (Nathan) EAST inlay... Nathan is a great player but had nothing to do with me buying that bass. What about Marcus' jazz? Do people buy that because of Marcus... or because it offers something that other jazz basses don't and the Marcus link is of no consequence? Just thought - I guess Macca has been responsible for the sale of a lot of Hofners... C'mon, who are the players that could encourage sales of gear due to them using it?

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1452604781' post='2951494'] Excellent post [/quote] Thanks Looking at your signature has made me think of another aspect. Status for example - sell a lot of basses due to the strong ties with Mark King. Buying a King Bass certainly won't make you play like Mark King... it won't necessarily make you sound like Mark King... but if Mark King is your hero, having a bass, or a collection of basses as used by your bass hero has got to be reason enough to buy one for some... In fact, Mark King is one of the few endorsees that I can think of that can actually sell gear. I'm not convinced there's another player that can shift gear like Mark King can. I think that's partly down to his notoriety in the bass world and the fact that the majority of fans are now of the age where they can spend generous quantities of money on basses. In fact, this has made me think of a new topic....

In the past, I've done the Jam Man thing. Now, I've delegated to a SPD-SX in the drummer's domain.

I guess a lot of it is to do with the fact that a lot of people get a lot of joy out of buying different instruments, even if the latest j bass is just a take on the same old bass we all know. This bass thing we do, is not all about the playing for some people. I've met countless players who can't play for toffee but have the most immense collection of instruments... and you know what, I'm not one of these guys that subscribes to the thoughts of "nice basses deserved to be played by great players" because these basses can bring a lot of joy to some who just like them hanging on the wall. There's enough people that buy super cars that can't drive the cars to anywhere near their potential - or desire to - but like to have something in their garage which represents the pinnacle of engineering and is something nice to own. In reality, people do get caught up in pickups and their positioning, preamps, neck profiles etc etc... but hey, people get different pleasures out of the bass. Some by playing, some the social aspect of being in a band for example... and I guess having a fleet of super basses is achievable for more than a garage full of super cars. I think Scott is targeting the people who think that buying the latest bass will somehow lead to improving your playing. Hey, it may do, or may not... but you have to have a reason for getting a purchase past your other half right? I don't really think anybody really subscribes to the thinking that a bass can replace practice... but there's so many different reasons for buying a bass... and the playing of it may actually be pretty low down on the list of reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7icGpchTH4c @2:05 "My c**k is still sore from last night" Player.

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1452180928' post='2947349'] Check out this Ken Smith... not sure about that at all! [/quote] That's a bass that has been made into a single cut as opposed to a bass being designed as a single cut. Yak.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1452510872' post='2950527'] As if the bass can change your playing or make you a better player. Only dedication, focus and study can do that. [/quote] Not sure if I agree on the "change your playing" bit. A hollow body bass with flatwounds, makes me play very different to how I'd play an uber modern slap monster. Some instruments simply command that you play it differently.