EBS_freak

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380628341' post='2228009'] My first custom built basses ever, I searched on here and there was nothing to suggest any major problems with time keeping at Lettsbass in peoples reviews beforehand. So there seemed to be no problems, it's just unfortunate I am one who seems to have been taken advantage of. Maybe you could "Drop" the condescending attitude and baiting behavior? Which of course you'll deny and say "I was only trying to help, what a terrible thing for a moderator to say". Well all these posts are in a personal capacity anyway. [/quote] Nothing baiting or condescending from this camp I am afraid. I have spoken nothing but sense... how you chose to interpret my written word is up to you! I understand your frustration and if my words have made you feel uneasy, maybe buying bespoke products is not the route for you, especially if you are having difficulty in resolving the issues. Life is too short! Get out there and do some playing instead. I don't believe at any point I have said you were wrong for ordering what you've ordered. I am a fan of custom products... but I also know the nightmares that they can and often do bring. I do hope that they get sorted... but running people's names across the internet rarely get's things sorted... and sours any lines of communications further making resolution that little bit more difficult. "Terrible thing for a moderator to say" - you think I bother reading what is under people's avatars? We're all just people. Say what you want, moderator or not.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380627262' post='2227989'] When I went from Ashdown to Genz a few years ago I knew my playing was very sloppy within a few gigs, unfortunately it still is [/quote] At least the risk of fire is way down now.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380628103' post='2228005'] In reality what happens is the people who waited ages and got really sick of waiting then come back and say even after all the trouble it was worth the wait because its exactly what I wanted and no one else could have made it, so we are still in the dark really. We all know these things will take forever without people pointing it out IMO. [/quote] Isn't that how buying a BF cab seems to work?

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1380627147' post='2227986'] FWIW, Jon Letts hasn't been on BassChat since July so he won't read this thread at all unless someone points it out to him. He is still active though, as he posted some build pics this morning on FaceBook [/quote] You don't have to be logged onto BassChat to read this thread.

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1380627515' post='2227993'] Or they can make a decision whether the wait and hassle is for them and if not, get something else that is similar from someone else, something completely different or just not buy anything! [/quote] Is that the penny dropping?

I've spent many an hour trawling through head-fi. Some very informed people on there... some very not so informed too! I've checked a lot of average_joe's threads. Seems particularly clued up with real world experience - unlike alot of guys out there posting drivel on the internet!

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380625145' post='2227942'] I think the people that are missing the point are thinking a custom bass is a Jazz bass with a tort guard and a set of bart pickups rather than the point EBS freak is making where we are talking total one offs or items that hold a value to some people partly because of the name which could even be a dull Jazz bass that costs three times as much for no other reason than the brand. If you want Nike trainers then you want Nike trainers, a pair of Nuke ones off the market might even be better trainers but you still aint got a pair of Nike have you? [/quote] Bingo. For example, you can also buy a J bass from other places, not just Alleva Coppolo...but it won't have that ludicrous headstock with the squirly writing on it... and that may be a must have for you! If you aren't fussed about brands and just want a J bass that is made by a luthier... then the world is your oyster... and then you can certainly vote with your wallet.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380620974' post='2227853'] Tone is all in the fingers as long as those fingers are stroking some bookmatched diseased wood in the shape of a sperm whale with elephantitis. [/quote] [url="http://www.nado-guitars.com/nado-bass_en.php"]http://www.nado-guitars.com/nado-bass_en.php[/url]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380622731' post='2227880'] It's nice! Quite a pleasing design, but surely neck binding is not too much to ask? I was after a Mayonnaise Jabbahut that looked a bit like that, but in shell pink. Got that chrome Warwick instead. [/quote] I think it's a stunning take on classic meets elephant - and I'm not usually a SC fan. Customer pays for what the customer says... guessing this customer didn't want binding on his bass - these are all built to customer spec... and I love (most) of the ones that have come out of this luthiers stable.

[quote name='Prosebass' timestamp='1380585076' post='2227587'] Who is this? [/quote] The years haven't been kind to Eddie.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380620974' post='2227853'] Tone is all in the fingers as long as those fingers are stroking some bookmatched diseased wood in the shape of a sperm whale with elephantitis. [/quote] Meet you half way Mr xilddx? Been trying to put myself off this one for months now...

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1380616852' post='2227772'] I think it's a useful thread. If I'd have read this before ordering my custom build five months ago I would have thought twice about ordering it... ... then probably ordered it anyway thinking it wouldn't happen to me When I ordered the bass the plan was, if it turned out as I wanted, I'd order a similar fretless version on the back of it. I can say now that I definitely will not be ordering another custom build. Rob [/quote] I don't think the thread should put anybody off from buying a custom bass - far from it. Custom basses done right are beautiful things. I currently have 3 in my crop of basses and they are exactly what I wanted. I couldn't go into a shop and get anything remotely like the ones that I have right through to sound, finishes and electronics. But what I will say, is that I set it clear in my mind that these basses may or may not arrive quickly... and I talked with the luthier in great detail about what I did and didn't want. I played a lot of his basses and said what I liked and disliked about all of his basses. I even went as far as saying don't lacquer the necks until I had played them unlacquered because if the neck profiles weren't comfortable, I would hate the basses. I listened to his views of what and wouldn't work... and you know what, all three basses are amongst the best things I've ever bought. Everything is absolutely spot on. I think I echo some of the thoughts shared here about people not knowing what they want... or falling in love with the notion of buying a bass that will fix all their problems. More often than not, the problem is not the bass - but the player. And yeah, a J bass is a wonderful thing Nige! Although I'm not sure that I agree with the buying of a new neck ha ha ha ha....

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380620974' post='2227853'] Tone is all in the fingers as long as those fingers are stroking some bookmatched diseased wood in the shape of a sperm whale with elephantitis. [/quote] Dont forget that it has to be a non standard scale too. Oh. And don't forget the ramp.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1380616852' post='2227772'] I think it's a useful thread. If I'd have read this before ordering my custom build five months ago I would have thought twice about ordering it... ... then probably ordered it anyway thinking it wouldn't happen to me [/quote] :-p

http://www.bowfinishing.co.uk/

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1380566576' post='2227226'] So potentially out of the named and shamed only Jon Letts will see this. So actually only he will feel shame if he comes back on here! I wouldn't! It's not really an open letter then. It's kinda a letter to Jon Letts. Best pay for an ad in the Daily Mail. Have a go at the immigrants too! [/quote] True. This thread only seems to have had a purpose if a bass suddenly materialises because the majority of the content in here is widely being ignored.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1380571365' post='2227362'] Good business ethics is what we should expect from any business as a matter of course, not just luthiers, and we shouldn't have to "put up and shut up" [/quote] Agreed. Unless they are selling a unique product that you can't get elsewhere then you are kinda screwed. There seems to be an echo.

PS just to clarify, not saying that custom guys behaviour is right, just saying why it is like it is.

[quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1380582622' post='2227572'] This. [Disclaimer: Never bought a custom anything...] [/quote] Try reading the thread again.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1380564041' post='2227165'] What I don't understand is the business model most these UK based guys work on. With few exceptions I can't work out what their unique selling point is. I mean when I first started on basschat everyone was going mad about Shuker - and I'm sure they're good basses but I can't work out what makes them any different than a similar super jazz that someone else could make. ACG have their preamp and a bit more considered body shapes (I'm a designer/visual artist so that's where that opinion comes from) which sets them apart a bit, ... but apart from that I can't think of many who stand out of the "newer" builders - If you think of the slightly older UK builders if I said JD, Wal, Status or Overwater, then you can Imagine what the bass would look, and to a certain extent sound like. Some of the newer lot.... I don't get what it is that they are doing particularly. IMO it would make more sense to come up with something exceptional and sell that, rather than make whatever the (uneducated) punter wants. I guess I also think that a hand built bass isn't nesserally better than a 3D CNDed bass fretted by a robot (a la Warwick) when it comes down to the finished product... I'm guessing the tolerances on a computer can be far far smaller.... I get it. As an apendium, Most electric bass guitars are a bit more low tech than a new Morgan, and something like Wal inspired pickups could be built at home if you wanted too and put in the time/effort. [/quote] I don't get the J bass thing either. By their very nature they are a production line instrument. May as well get a Warmoth body and neck and customise to your hearts content. Of course this doesn't give the same birthing process that I think many crave. Warmoth will cater for your choice of wood and make pretty much anything you want within a standard j bass spec. Only if there is something truly whacky about your desired spec I could see why you must go custom. The thing is, luthiers can come up with something whacky... And it won't sell. People want the normality of a j bass but not the normality of a Fender. Time and time again you see luthiers start off with something out of the norm... Then plump for a j bass. Why? Cos it sells and is a timeless shape. I can see why guys like ACG, Wal, GB, Alembic and Schack to name a few, do well. Their usp is all in their electronics. Nothing else sounds like them and the full electronics package and pickups are generally not available for purchase to put in other basses. And quite right too. As for Morgan, it's not a literal comparison... But there are elements of a bass that are not as straightforward either. Take this for example... http://www.gbguitars.co.uk/images/innovation/detail/bass_preamp_lg.jpg That's years of r and d and each one of those circuits are hand soldered and matched to the pickups it will work with. That's not your normal plug and play circuit. I'd say elements of this are on par with a Morgan personally... Remember, Morgan don't build their own engines for starters. The actual production is vastly different but my stance on only a Morgan will do if the buyer wants a Morgan still stands. As for the Wal pickups, it's not as simple as that either. Where are you going to find a Wal pickup to reverse engineer? If you find one, are you going to destroy it in your quest to replicate it? Have you got the winders to make it a viable process? Are you going to invest the time and money to buy all the components (in small but expensive quantities) to test it all? And remember, the pickups are only half of the Wal sound. Yes, they could be built at home... But in reality they are not are they? Especially as a one off. That's why our New Jersey friend tried to make a business venture out of it. You make it sound like its easy... But it's far from that. If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it and cashing in.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1380559996' post='2227098'] I would've thought though that guitars are basically guitars and there's not much innovation going on and so no real opportunity for massive delays, excepting personal problems that might crop up. But when 'personal problems' become the norm and everything is always late you're left thinking maybe this guy isn't suited to self employment... [/quote] Yup, a bit of wood here, a bit of glue there, a few screws. Simples!

"ooh, imagine it in it's day..."

...in yellow.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380559847' post='2227094'] I was going to put a picture of a terrible Morgan style kit car on but I am on the works PC [/quote] Oh surely you'd buy an MR2 Ferrari?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380559645' post='2227092'] I'd just go somewhere else, probably cheaper too [/quote] Vera vs Morgan? There's only one winner!