EBS_freak

My EBS rig is 2 x 2x10s... (actually, it's 4 2x10s) - but the combined size of the two cabs is quite a bit taller than the 4x10 if fitting into a boot in in play. 78cm vs 69cm

I knew you'd get sick of the weight of that 410! The 212 is my favourite neo cab from EBS if that your thing. That selenium tweeter is the secret sauce of the cab, really makes that top end ping and is a monster for slap. Dont go for 2 EBS 1x12 cabs. I've always found that they fart out. If you are struggling with the car boot - then the 212 from EBS probably not going to help - it's just 8cm shorter in height.

^ top advice. The Rumble 500 is a great option too.

This - https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_block_300b.htm And any bass speaker you can find. There's this - https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_solidbass_210t.htm - but it's quite a weight. Its quite a small budget for getting something that will do well at a gig - but the ICE power amp in the Harley Benton 300b is giving your a decent enough foundation in the power amp department. (Found in pretty much all the 300w class D offerings). If you can get Peavey BW cab (1x15 at 4ohm enabling you to throw all 300w at it), that would probably be recommendation for a 1 cab solution. I know you asked for combo... but you know, throwing it out there. Something like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-Black-Widow-18-speakers-115-BX-BW-bass-cabinet-In-excellent-condition/324566682352?hash=item4b91ae8af0:g:NUUAAOSw4UVgN9FS EDIT: FFS, forgotten VAT trap again. That may be blowing the budget somewhat.

I did some more reading as my (not particularly in-depth) list didn’t seem to be received too well (I didn’t think I would be marked upon it - it was merely a quick example). Seems there’s quite a lot of 5ghz units out there - I would wager they are all using the same 5ghz system that can be probably traced back to one factory in China where it’s is just put into generic units for rebranding. People may/may not be interested to know that this wireless is a rebranding of a Chinese origin unit - the Aroma ARG-07 http://www.aromamusic.cn/en/products-62.html Seems like they (Aroma) has got a good range of products for the price. If you like to partake in Chinese import from source, there’s a lot of cool stuff for not a lot of money. Thomann done well to spot this example I reckon - and having the HB and Thomann link will give people the confidence to buy. Not that this is new - a lot of HB is similar to this... as was Nusonic (rebranding of Chinese goods) and laterly Swissonic. Anyway, looking forward to the review - I’m sure that it will operate just fine - but I must admit I’m intrigued by the tuner performance as this is clearly going up against the GLXD on a budget.

Dayum. Somebody is a bit tetchy today.

* it's a joke. It's a joke. *sigh*

They won't hear a slap back Al! They will just think you can't play in time! To be fair though, I did read about the guy who was running two moderately high latency wireless units from his bass, to his helix... and then from his helix to his amp head. I think the band had completed the set before his first note was heard*

Man, I feel for you. And people still hate on Amazon. You know when they say "we aim to be the Earth's most customer centric company", they certainly got the courier bit sorted. And the buying experience. And the returns experience. In fact, it's going to be difficult for even the likes of Thomann to compete with Amazon when this is the sort of stinky poo show that is going on. They just need to work on the bit where their workers are involved.

I'm talking about the additional latency that is added on top of your playing. That 10ms you talk of is already there, even when you are using a cable. Now add your latency on top of that - say ....10ms of delay. Now take that into Logic and tell me you can't feel the latency. Or maybe you can't. Everybody is different to how susceptible they are to latency. I added the 10ms as the industry standard of acceptable IEM latency. The target figure is actually more like 7ms. Slower network doesn't come into it. Propagation losses on a 5Ghz network are substantially higher than a 2.4Ghz when comparing like for like performance in a typical venue that is brick built with more than it's fair share of metal work with which the radio waves have to contend. This isn't me just throwing random comments out there - this is science that is underpinned via the Friis transmission formula. The reason that speed of the network doesn't come into it, is that both radio waves operating in both frequencies can carry the payload of a digital stream of a 24bit 48k digital audio signal with no issues. The latency figures are largely down (e.g. pretty much all of it) to the the DAC conversations (analogue to digital and back again). So in short, 2.4Ghz is actually better than 5Ghz for insuring a stable signal. Trouble is with 2.4Ghz, is that there are only 3 truly intermod frequencies out there... and there's so much noise from wireless access points, that you can be unfortunate that you are likely to have interference problems. So yeah, you can go to 5Ghz and have less chance of interference - but then bit of metal, thick walls - even people standing in the line of sight, can mean that you get drop out. If anybody is wondering about how the pro domain gets around this, it's because the operating figures run from 550-850Hz (taking into account world wide spectrum) - so the radio waves can pass through more dense objects more freely than the 5000 and 2400 frequencies. You are completely forgetting that a bass note is not made up of it's fundamental but what we hear are mostly it's harmonics. Put a sine wave in your favourite DAW at 40hz (bottom E on a bass) and tell me whether that is anything like what you hear from your bass. Probability is that your bass cab can't even produce that note cleanly anyway - nor would you want it to to if you are using your bass on stage anyway... but that's a completely different discussion. Oh, I understand now. I used the Helix and SmoothHound as an example of where you could run into trouble with IEMs going through a digital desk. If it works for you, that's great. Nobody is disputing that. Other people may not have the same sort of tolerance for latency as yourself - which is why I called it out in the thread. I am also aware of people that have run exactly the same setup and ditched the Smooth Hound due to the latency issues. If anything, from what I have read, I would be more concerned that you are saying that your timing is coming from your fingers rather than your ears... but hey, I'm not one to judge. I would have thought your ability to listen is a key part of locking in. But anyway, we digress. If it works for you, that's cool. If you are happy with the results, all gravy. That''s me not being a b4stard. It's sharing information so people can make an informed decision and not spend money on stuff that runs the risk of not working for them. PS transmitter

I'm not running the product down by any means. For a wireless unit, it ticks a lot of boxes. It's affordable, it's 5.8 Ghz, it's digital so you won't need to worry about a rubbish analogue compander. Likewise, I was addressing a certain issue that is greatly misunderstood and people contemplating purchasing this, or other wireless systems may not be aware of. Hell, I'm sure if you see the Smooth Hound posts where people talk of there being "no latency" - well, that is a complete nonsense... and all those folks that have tried using them with Helix setups will tell you that. If they don't, that's more of an observation on their sense of timing. There's no escaping that the latency figure is pretty high - but in the right setup, it is more than acceptable. So if you aren't utilising a lot of digital, and / or IEM, I am sure that it's great. Just looking through Andertons... FWIW, the G10 is on sale at Andertons for £119 - <2.9ms AKG DMS100 (with encryption also- that adds to the DAC overhead and introduces latency) - £113 - <2.9ms Behringer ULG10 - £73 - <5ms Mooer AP10 - £99 - <5ms and for completeness, the popular Xvive -£109, 6ms All of the above are running on 2.4 Ghz, so not ideal. However, the 5ghz Vyre wireless is an interesting prospect - £99, <5ms In in the interest of fairness, the HB has a tuner - but again, how good it is, especially tracking a low B, is unproven at the moment...

It's not always as simple as stating that, as it takes away from some of the main issues that come with latency... Some players can feel latency as low as 7ms. 10ms is deemed to be the common ceiling for IEM use. If you factor in any digital pedals (in series) and latency from a desk, units that are taking nearly 6ms of latency out of your 10ms working limit, put you not in a great position. Knowing what your use is going to be is pretty imperative when working with IEM. This unit in isolation - from bass to amp for example, is going to be great. Start adding in digital pedals, a desk, IEM... well, I would say that figure is pretty high, considering that there are units available with sub 3ms latency for not too much more. Having a delay directly into your ear, is much different to one from a cab. Well, for me anyway.

They could - but it would also set a very dangerous precedence. Thomann arguably have the financial ability to absorb the overhead in running such an operation. What about the small one person independents? What happens if the rest of the world suddenly decides that this method of tax collection is a good idea? Complete disaster.

Ah. Another (a)”woke”(n) thread.

It’s ok, they’ve got a spare... oh.

In which case the engineer will just roll their eyes 😛

It’s common to use an external DI independent from the amp - so if the amp does die, the show can still go on. These may be a nice powered DI, or a passive/phantom DI. If the former and the DI dies, a quick change from the stage hand sorts it.

I wouldn’t say that personalities are the key driver. The sound reproduction needs of a bass and guitar are very different. The use of low frequencies from a bass player isn’t totally comparable to the sounds being reproduced by the guitarist. I know there are some exceptions - eg White Stripes/Royal Blood. 1 more mic could wreck a mix. Every time you double the mic count on stage you are losing 3dB of headroom. So if you are crammed on a small stage/performance that is subject to a lot a lot of reflections, chances are you are going to run into problems sooner or later. This is why it is super important that all the mics on the drums are gated as much as possible as they are singularly accountable for the most open mics. It’s not great to gate all mics when not in use. Gated vocals tend to sound clipped at the start - you can kind of get away with it on backing vocals but certainly not on lead vocals. This is what the video I posted of the guy riding the faders is effectively doing - taking people in and out the mix to avoid spill and greatly reduce the chance of feedback. Makes the mix sound way better. Naff vocal mic technique is another area where you can lose a lot of headroom. If your singers are not “on” the mic, you are pumping the gain and reducing to pickup the singer but also raising the amount of spill into your mix. In a pro environment, a sound engineer will always use their own choice of mics - not one that has been carefully selected by the bassplayer. From an engineering point, it is important that you know and trust your mics and their behaviours. Some mics will have naturally hot frequencies - and it’s about knowing that to be able to counteract them and avoid potential feedback. An open bass mic is particularly annoying is that you can’t high pass it as you want to capture the sub frequencies to FoH. Those low frequencies have to be present from the cab in order for the mic to pick them up - hence you are going to be introducing that low end mush onto the stage that makes hearing yourself more difficult and also increases low end spill into other mics. Yeah, you can high pass - but if you start hi passing evening, your mix soon starts sounding thin. As pointed out earlier in the threads, a male voice for example, has a lot of low end content that you don’t want to high pass. As an extreme example, imagine Barry White this a high pass filter on his mic. It just wouldn’t have sounded like Barry White. So yeah, you could lift the bass coming out of your cab speakers to avoid these issues - but foh will want a DI to have those low end frequencies for use. Anyway - back to the “if your rig tone is pleasing to the band mix on stage it will not be out of place in the room mix.” - this is all founded in a big assumption that the bass rig is not heard over the sound of the PA - and that it is not being detrimental to the foh mix (through spill) I’m not sure what you are quite saying in the last para - typically and EQing to the room would be via pink noise and prior to the audience coming in. Naturally the sound changes again once the audience is in so a good ear from behind the desk should be able to notch out any trouble some nodes. Of course, the big advantage of silent stages is that the sound of the room becomes the only major variable.

It is regularly done - Kemper, Axed FX, Helix is becoming more common place. Metal bands - eg those with historically loud stages - were amongst the first to cotton on. Have a look at my Katy Perry vid previously. Have a look at Metallica’s setup. They are backlineless - predominantly IEM with the odd wedge. Additionally, for touring bands that can’t afford to travel with their own kit, digital modelling is a god send. A rig can be carried on a USB stick abs loaded onto any hire kit.

Richard, you’re fired!

Bloody love Robocop. Nice one, Murphy.

I think I whizzed them off with a pic and a posting of Stephen Fry. Awkward.

Good news....! Cue the dormant BC accounts.