Lord Sausage

I like this he did with half Duran Duran and chics drummer. Well 80's but cool. http://youtu.be/rgYqIvnPvqQ

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1397158355' post='2421352'] Ditto. The only reason it was formal was to be clear! Either way, music theory is FUN :-) [/quote]Word!

You say Hemiola, I say potato! i ain't arguing pal. I said this if you remember. [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Obviously wiki isn't definite proof, neither is someone with a weed addled memory. [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]But it seems correct.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why is everything so formal, it's just a discussion [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It's just I've played it off a score where it's mixed meter. In the end though it doesn't matter. As long as you are getting the 6 then 3 feel it don't matter the rest is just semantics. Music is passion not academia![/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I apologise if this comes over as arsey, it's not supposed to....it's just sometimes i do. [/font][/color]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1397073407' post='2420470'] Actually it's not quite correct :-) It's a hemiola and they are not the same thing. An alternating meter would be written as 3/4 followed by 6/8 (or visa versa) but that is not the case with 'America'. That particular piece features a hemiola and is written as a continuous meter of 6/8 but the accent of the beat changes so that it SOUNDS like two meters when it's not. It's actually a very specific musical device where three beats are placed into the space of the two that SHOULD fall within a compound time signature. Two sets of three quavers (or two dotted crochets) followed by a crochet, two tied quavers, and a final crochet (changing the two dotted crochets into three crochet sounds through accenting changes). The accents lie like this; (ONE, two, three, TWO, two, three, ONE [two], THREE [one], TWO [three]) In reality it would be counted as: (ONE, two, three, TWO, two, three, ONE [two], ONE [two], ONE [two]) Apologies if that got a bit too music theory geeky for anyone! [/quote] Wiki disagrees. To be honest i did too as i was sure hemiola rhythms were played at the same time. We did some latin percussion lessons at college. i couldn't quite remember as i smoked a lot of weed since then ha ha. Plus as i said when i played song from west Side Story at a theatre gig i'm sure the score was written alternating. Obviously wiki isn't definite proof, neither is someone with a weed addled memory. But it seems correct. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_(West_Side_Story_song"]http://en.wikipedia....Side_Story_song[/url]) [color=#252525]From a technical standpoint, the alternating of 3/4 (three quarter notes) with 6/8 (two groups of three eighth-notes), while the value of the eight-note remains constant, is a distinctive characteristic of the song. This rhythm has been called both a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemiola"]hemiola[/url] and a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habanera_(music)"]habanera[/url], although it is not really either. The "two" and "three" bars alternate, but they are not superposed, as in a hemiola. The alternating two and three is similar to the aria "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habanera_(aria)"]Habanera[/url]" from [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen"]Carmen[/url][/i], but "America" lacks the distinctive characteristic underlying rhythm of the habanera form. The composer's tempo instruction is "Tempo di [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huapango"]Huapango[/url]"[/color]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1397050061' post='2420119'] There is much music written that has varying emphasis within the composition, all encompassed by a common time signature. I would not expect the TS [i]alone [/i]to give all the information required; that's the job of the notes and annotations within the piece. That the TS give a reasonable idea of how the piece should be approached would be enough, I feel. Sometimes even the annotations are not sufficient, either, and the final 'feel' is given by the conductor or band leader. This is not necessarily a Bad Thing, and can, indeed, be intentional on the part of the composer. All is not to be interpreted as literally as seems to be the impression given here, imo. A TS will not [i]always [/i]be 'counted out' in the same way throughout the work (although most often it will be, indeed...). [/quote] Exactly!

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1397048427' post='2420094'] As someone else said in one of the related threads (and possibly here as well) these "rules" are more like widely-followed guidelines than scientific laws. Depending on whose transcript you pick up, for example, I've seen Pink Floyd's [i]Money [/i]written out in both 7/4 and in 4+3 / 4. (Somebody told me this was because conventionally, 7/4 is emphasised as 3+4 / 4. I don't know whether I believe this person, particularly because I didn't think there was enough music written in 7/4 for there to be a broad "convention" on the matter!) [/quote]i think it can be either way. 4 then or vice versa. like 5 being 3 and 2 or vice versa.

Kind of written (well written might be stretching it, it does contain a lot of samples) something and recorded it. I intended it to be slow dark funk but sounds more Rap/hip hop. So it would need that kind of vocal which is beyond me. Don't really know anyone to do it maybe the singer in my band who is into all that. But she's would be to busy. It would be boring to turn it into an instrumental. So prob gonna have to leave it.

I've just dug some music out, printed official by music publishers etc where i know there are parts containing bars of 9/8 that isn't compound. It's notated as 9/8. I think you should get on the phone to 'em and Portnoy. I ain't saying it's not compound, I'm saying it doesn't have to be and that it doesn't always get used as that. I've done plenty of reading gigs where it isn't. It's like language. things and meanings can change over time in English, why not music. Plus it's not that big a deal. I bet loads of musicians think of 9/8 in compound and simple. It's not a problem. Why do you need it to be just compound?

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1396981023' post='2419460'] You say that you've played a few things, and there is a lot of prog, where 9 is straight. By 'straight', do you mean simple time? E.g. beats divided into two? In which case, you can't have 9/8, but could have 9/4, as 9 quavers can't be divided into two, but 9 crotchets can be. As is the belly dancing music further up. Or do you mean that you agree with Mike Portney, in saying that 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 / 8 is 9/8? Is that what you mean by 'straight'? That 9/8 is a compound time signature is very widely accepted. So, people can describe non-compound time signatures as 9/8, but that raises the question of whether that description is right or not. If the groupings are shown in the music, then it won't prevent musicians playing it correctly. But if the meanings of time signatures is weakened by widespread mis-use (assuming that this is mis-use), then they lose descriptive power. As if we see 9/8, we won't know immediately which 9/8 the music means, and we have to guess it from other information. That's why I've decided to use additive time signatures rather than 8/8. Because 8/8 is ambiguous, while additive time signatures aren't. And therefore they are much better at conveying information. [/quote]I agree with portnoy as there are 9 quaver beats in a bar. The groupings would be defined by how it's written down or a note at the beginning of the piece. With regards to lessening descriptive powers i think you maybe over thinking it. You wouldn't have to guess which 9/8 it meant. you could just tell by how it's written. (the whole piece)

I may be wrong as it's been a long time, 17 yrs, but I'm sure i played America from West side story and it was written bar of 6/8 bar of 3/4. Not some crazy time.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1396944775' post='2418890'] I'm not sure I agree that the time signature there is 9/8, as 9/8 should be compound. Depending on how you classify the last eighth (it sounds like a beat to me), that would make the time signature: 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 / 8 or: 2 + 2 + 2 + 3 / 8 [/quote] i wouldn't say 9/8 has to be compound I've played a few things in nine where it's straight. You would just have the feel written and the beginning of the piece. You'd be able to tell by how the quavers were grouped when written. There's a lot of prog where 9 is straight. Why over complicate things? Just write things as easy as possible. So that the message gets across to the musician easier.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1396646226' post='2416142'] Wow... !! Lighten up a little !! No need to go on the defensive. It's all the same to me whether you are for or against theory. I was merely trying to make a point by way of an analogy. Take it or leave it....doesn't matter. [/quote]ha ha. Didn't mean it to come across like that.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1396625691' post='2415826'] I am not sure I understand what you are getting at here. Lets take the alphabet/scales analogy a little further. The letters of the alphabet are the building blocks of the English language, as scales are to music. When we are at school we learn our spellings and how to pronounce words etc. When we have learned all this, we can then arrange all these letters into words to be creative and to communicate with others. There are no "rules" as to what word should follow what. That's entirely up to us. However, in order for things to make some sense, the actual letters must take on a certain pattern in order to compose words. So it is not correct to say the the alphabet (scales) itself is limiting. The only thing that limits us is our lack of knowledge and creative ability. Once you know how to use the alphabet, the sky is the limit. [/quote] I was saying notes are like letters. The smallest denomination. Scales are like phrases or sentences or grammar. Which doesn't have to be perfect as long as you are getting your message across. everyone has there own lingo ya know. The rules bit i was saying had nowt to do with the analogy just about music fact. We are starting to sound like this now http://youtu.be/QplCetQYYKw Look pal. I have nothing against theory. I'm big on it, a nerd almost. It's just my approach and feeling of it. i don't see it as a dead academic thing.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1396615537' post='2415712'] I struggle to see how any of it would make any sense without knowing how it all fits together. TO be blunt, a lack of knowledge of scales usually means that a massive amount of music is unavailable to you and that just seems a shame. I find that, as an improvising musician, the more I learn, the more I hear and the more I recognise, the more I can respond to intelligently. Charts make more sense, improvising becomes more creative and I also enjoy listening to music more. Bludnering around with pentatonics got very tedious for me very quickly although there are those who can still make some beautiful music with those alone. But the edge that I look for in players is rarely found in the 'intuiitive' player and more often in the 'informed'. The irony is, the basics are not that hard to learn (the interestingly titled Neopolitan, Balearic, Constipated etc scales are VERY uncommon and are more often than not basic scales with notes added or left out so, if you knwo the basics, the rest is easily picked up in real time). Major, Minor, Dominant, Diminished, Augmented and Blues scales is about all you need. It's a week's work at most. [/quote] that's what i was saying. The bigger harmonic picture. I'm not ignorant to theory. Quite the opposite!

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1396606379' post='2415579'] Saying that scales are b*****ks and locks you into certain things is like saying that the alphabet is b****cks and does the same. Scales are the building blocks of music. It's how you use them that's important. As for "rules", theory does not consist of rules, just guidelines. [/quote]no it wouldn't. It would be like saying notes are bollocks if using your alphabet analogy. It does consist of rules....and guidelines. Baroque harmony is theory. No consecutive fifths or octave between notes etc. Serialism has specific theory rules. Scales have rules, intervals that decide them etc

I used to know lots and used to make a point of learning them. But the more theory and musical ideas I consumed made me realise scales were bollocks and tend to lock you into certain things and phrases. I think a wider understanding of harmony, notes relating to current chord that you are on and where you are going with a hint of relation to the key or tonal centre, whilst knowing all the notes on the neck and intervals etc is what is important. Also your ear....f*** the rules. When i used to hear Eddie Van Halen say the chromatic scale is the most important i used to think what a cop out, what's he talking about....he's right!

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1396002164' post='2408800'] I tried. What i am pissed off with is a site called Get Me In. They are affiliated to Ticketmaster and sellin tickets already for £800 plus a ticket. It is shameful as there are things in place to try to stop touiting, and they are the biggest culprits. [url="http://www.getmein.com/rock-and-pop/kate-bush-tickets.html"]http://www.getmein.c...sh-tickets.html[/url] [/quote] Word! It's a scandalous crime really. I'm so pissed off I won't be listening to Kate Bush for a while!

If you pardon my french it's f***ing bollocks! Was in at 9.30. By the time got through security and and all that to be told there were none available when you when back they were all sold old apart from tickets for £400. No chance i'm gonna pay ridiculous money for tickets. It's a Joke.

Think it's bollocks personally. I've been playing 20 yrs. just done a pro UK theatre tour using a Yamaha BBN5 which i bought for £400 about 17 years ago and an ESP LTD 5 String fretless which i bought for about £400 last year. Both play and sound great. The amount of great comments i got for the sound of both of them is unreal. I don't believe all that over a £1000 guff.

My dad was into Rock, Fusion and Blues. My Mum was into Kate Bush, Jacko, all pop really. So i grew up listening to [media]http://youtu.be/VFqPMzFV5fM[/media] And http://youtu.be/wp43OdtAAkM Pretty much my taste in music today exists between all this.

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1393873269' post='2385365'] That's interesting... we generally get feedback that people prefer landscape photos because they allow for lots of different interpretations, rather than being too 'literal'. But it's something to bear in mind in future [/quote] I don't necessarily mean here's a scene do the music. But maybe something abstract, lots of different shapes, trippy etc.

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1393964636' post='2386418'] I get where you are coming from. There is a comp going on until sometime in April you might like. It is based around layering (used in games music). Although aimed at their games and film scoring courses, it is free and with some prizes. You have to sign up, no obligation to get the comp link. [url="http://www.scorbit.org/contest/"]http://www.scorbit.org/contest/[/url] Garry [/quote]Cheers pal. I'll take a look.

I've entered before a couple of times. I thought of the tree idea but couldn't bring myself to do it.

Not gonna enter again this month. No disrespect i just can't get into these 'Still' pictures that are being used. Just doesn't do anything for me. But best of luck to everyone. I will listen and vote at the end!

http://youtu.be/PBAl9cchQac