Four E-strings on one bass?

[Beedster]

I'm reading 'Shakey', the outstanding Neil Young biog, and at one stage it's mentioned that Bruce Palmer, bassist with Buffalo Springfield, played with 4 E strings on his bass, all pitched differently (although it doesn't mention whether they were pitched conventionally, which I kinda doubt, or otherwise). I've always hated the thinness of Ds and Gs, so can kinda understand where he was at (if it was true). Anyone tried it, or able to shed some light on the idea?

Cheers

C

PS this is one great book!

Edited August 24, 2010 by Beedster

[Clarky]

Neck must have ended up like a banana!

[Cat Burrito]

First I'd heard. I have a Buffalo Springfield biography on the bookshelf awaiting to be read so it'll be interesting to see if there is any mention of it.

Looking at the attached picture seems to support that

[Colledge]

using an e string for D & G would have massive tension, pretty sure they would snap, and yeah, easy way of making a longbow.

[wateroftyne]

Bruce is a great player. And absolutely bizarre.

[Beedster]

Just found the passage in question:

"[he would] start fingering the four fat E strings he'd put on a violin bodied bass, and whip out James Jamerson Motown-styled melodic runs that would propel the band up into the stratosphere" (nice to see JJ getting some all too rare credit).

So, it being a violin bass probably addressed some of the potential neck problems? Probably won't be doing it on my '64, but I'd love to try something along those lines, even if a smaller drop in gauge than normal for ascending strings?

C

Edited August 24, 2010 by Beedster

[charic]

Interesting idea, would be quite unnerving to play I imagine

[wateroftyne]

I'm suprised a violin bass could handle it!

[wateroftyne]

By the way... If you like Shakey, get I'll Sleep When I'm Dead, about Warren Zevon next. It's fab.

[Beedster]

[quote name='charic' post='934785' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:08 PM']Interesting idea, would be quite unnerving to play I imagine [/quote]

Certainly make you think twice about slap eh! Four E strings, short scale violin bass, slap, gotta laugh haven't ya!

Perhaps they should be de-rigeur at all bass bashes


[quote name='wateroftyne' post='934799' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:14 PM']I'm suprised a violin bass could handle it![/quote]

I was thinking it would handle it better as less of the scale length is neck than on a traditional bass, but I'm probably wrong!


[quote name='wateroftyne' post='934804' date='Aug 24 2010, 02:16 PM']By the way... If you like Shakey, get I'll Sleep When I'm Dead, about Warren Zevon next. It's fab.[/quote]

Cheers Michael, I'll look it up. My contemporary music reading journey, which started with Peter Guralnick's 'Lost Highway' about 8 years ago, is now in the laTE 60's, although I recently read Barney Hoskins' 'Low Side of the Road' (Tom Waits biog) a little out of order! Next on my list is Greil Marcus' "Listening to Van Morrison", about which I'm very excited and a little curious, and having seen mention of Zevon - who's never really been on my radar musically (Werewolves of London is no doubt not the full extent of his work) - in several other books about people who are, I'll be getting that as well.

C

Edited August 24, 2010 by Beedster

[tauzero]

Searching round the web, it appears that Palmer invented a tuning for 6-string guitar of E E E E B E so could there be some confusion with that?

[Beedster]

[quote name='tauzero' post='934919' date='Aug 24 2010, 03:57 PM']Searching round the web, it appears that Palmer invented a tuning for 6-string guitar of E E E E B E so could there be some confusion with that?[/quote]

He probably did both, he was an accomplished guitarist (Young describes him as the best blues guitarist he ever played with, which is saying something given Young's CV, and saying even more given that Palmer mostly chose to play bass). The book is extremely well researched so I doubt there's an error. Of course, he might have tuned it E E E E!

C

[arthurhenry]

Billy Sheehan did the same thing on his double neck Yamaha for the guitar/bass duet on the Mr. Big reunion tour. Paul Gilbert had 4 E strings as well. Well worth looking up on youtube.

[Deep Thought]

I've just finished reading 'Shakey' as well-thoroughly enjoyed it, although it appears that like a lot of great artists, or, I suppose, like most of us, Neil Young can be a bit of a git. I'm also on a heavy run of rock biographies, before that it was Nick Mason's 'Inside out', which is a scream, recent ones also include Stephen Davis's 'Jim Morrison', Mark Putterford's 'Phil Lynott:The Rocker', and my favorite, Mick Wall's Zep bio, 'When giants walked the Earth'. I've been eyeing up the Warren Zevon book lately, now I think I'll give it a go. Several Johnny Cash and Dylan ones around-anyone read any?

[Stu-khag]

Very intriguing! I'd love to have a go. I've had a little project where I've been intending to finish a little collection of songs into an EP which I was going to call the People's Key-P. Essentially all the songs are in the key of E played on a guitar tuned EBEEBE. Perhaps a bass with 4 E strings would be the catalyst to finish it!
Going to check out the buffalo springfield book, still haven't finished the krautrock book I've been reading since christmas though

Edited August 24, 2010 by Stu-khag

[Mickeyboro]

Michael

I've spent most of my working life interviewing 'rock stars' and I'm afraid I have to report that Mr Zevon was the most egocentric and downright nasty. All the more disappointing since I was a big fan of his work.

The book explains a lot!

My choice for a rock book with balls if you can find it (and I know this is off topic) is Papa John by John Phillips - a lovely interviewee, incidentally! Don't be fooled by the Mamas and the Papas' image - he was a real hellraiser.

Never met the late Bruce Palmer....

[thebeat]

[quote name='Mickeyboro' post='935240' date='Aug 24 2010, 07:54 PM']Michael

I've spent most of my working life interviewing 'rock stars' and I'm afraid I have to report that Mr Zevon was the most egocentric and downright nasty. All the more disappointing since I was a big fan of his work.

The book explains a lot![/quote]
Yeah, being a lover of his music and lyrics i was kinda disappointed to find out how much of a shitheel he was...at least according to Crystal that is.

[jezzaboy]

He may be a talented player, but he was out to lunch! If you ever see a Bruce Palmer album called The cycle is complete, run a mile, please don`t buy it. Had it years ago and it was out there! And in those days, I was out there myself! And it still sounded sh*t! Having said that, it`s more than likley worth a few bob now.

If anybody wants to try out the 4 E string idea, I`ve got a EB0 bass that I gave away but has been returned to me.

Jez

[SuperMaximo]

I'll do it if I get to keep the bass afterwards
Four E strings baffles me... Why would anyone want four strings the same pitch?!

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='SuperMaximo' post='935729' date='Aug 25 2010, 10:43 AM']I'll do it if I get to keep the bass afterwards
Four E strings baffles me... Why would anyone want four strings the same pitch?![/quote]

Maybe he plays with a barre for the fattest sound ever.

[Beedster]

[quote name='SuperMaximo' post='935729' date='Aug 25 2010, 10:43 AM']Why would anyone want four strings the same pitch?![/quote]

As I understand it, they were tuned to different pitches, I'd be interested to know which. I could imagine that a down-tuned bottom string to C, normal tuned E, A flat, C might just work, although the tension on the high C would be considerable!

C

[spinynorman]

Old thread on Talkbass, isn't a lot of help, but suggests it's confused with "Bruce Palmer Modal Tuning" for guitar, which Steve Stills used in CSN.

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526981"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526981[/url]

Edited August 26, 2010 by spinynorman

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Mickeyboro' post='935240' date='Aug 24 2010, 07:54 PM']Michael

I've spent most of my working life interviewing 'rock stars' and I'm afraid I have to report that Mr Zevon was the most egocentric and downright nasty. All the more disappointing since I was a big fan of his work.

The book explains a lot![/quote]

Oh, hell aye.. It's clear that the man was nasty beyond belief. Part of the reason it's such a great book...!

Back on Bruce Palmer, for a vague idea of how he sounded in a more modern environment, find Neil Young's Berlin DVD, recorded on the Trans tour.

Bruce is in the band... he looks like a tubby, sinister uncle, but his playing and tone are fantastic. He's playing one of them there Kramer aluminium basses.

It's mentioned in Shakey, I think.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='939178' date='Aug 29 2010, 08:56 AM']Oh, hell aye.. It's clear that the man was nasty beyond belief. Part of the reason it's such a great book...!

Back on Bruce Palmer, for a vague idea of how he sounded in a more modern environment, find Neil Young's Berlin DVD, recorded on the Trans tour.

Bruce is in the band... he looks like a tubby, sinister uncle, but his playing and tone are fantastic. He's playing one of them there Kramer aluminium basses.

It's mentioned in Shakey, I think.[/quote]

<Hijack apology>

WTF is going on with you having Michael Manring as an avatar? I couldn't think of a more [s]obscure[/s] [s] inappropriate [/s] [s]oxymoronic[/s] [u]ODD[/u] avatar for you!

Unless (and I apologise if I am correct) Mr Manring who was in Dads Army has just passed away and this is an oblique tip of the hat to him?

BTW passing by yours later so time permitting may get the chance for that cuppa.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='939202' date='Aug 29 2010, 09:32 AM']<Hijack apology>

WTF is going on with you having Michael Manring as an avatar? I couldn't think of a more [s]obscure[/s] [s] inappropriate [/s] [s]oxymoronic[/s] [u]ODD[/u] avatar for you!

Unless (and I apologise if I am correct) Mr Manring who was in Dads Army has just passed away and this is an oblique tip of the hat to him?

BTW passing by yours later so time permitting may get the chance for that cuppa.[/quote]
Michael Manring represents everything I love about music. Challenging stucture and composition, pushing his instrument to the edge of its' capabilities and beyond, a burning desire to educate his audience, and good hair.