Rickenbacker owners....4001? 4003? Best copy?

[cetera]

Sorry if this has been covered in detail before...

I'm interested in adding a black Rickenbacker (style) bass to my arsenal, but I have a couple of questions....

1) What is the main difference between a 4001 and a 4003?

2) I don't/won't have the cash to buy a real one so, of all the Japcrap etc copies over the years, which is/are the best/most authentic copies and what should I expect to pay for one in excellent condition?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Edited August 26, 2010 by cetera

[yorick]

Calling Bassassin.........

[lojo]

[quote name='cetera' post='937201' date='Aug 26 2010, 02:49 PM']Sorry if this has been covered in detail before...

I'm interested in adding a black Rickenbacker (style) bass to my arsenal, but I have a couple of questions....

1) What is the difference between a 4001 and a 4003? According to the specs on Rickenbackers own site there IS no difference...

2) I don't/won't have the cash to buy a real one so, of all the Japcrap etc copies over the years, which is/are the best/most authentic copies and what should I expect to pay for one in excellent condition?

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks! [/quote]

I did some of this research during the months before I brought my 4003 last year, I did find it very hard to get more than vague info on specs, anyway there seemed to be a pretty strong suggestion that 4001 older models where hit and miss as to neck issues etc, and as I could not run all over the country to check out the few that come up for sale 2nd hand, I waited for a newer model to come up locally, fortunately for me someone on here sold a fairly new 4003 in the finish i wanted, and they lived only 1/2 hour from me. Its a top quality instrument in every respect, but I may pass it on soon due to coming to the conclusion I am a fender guy first

Not sure thats much help, but good luck

[Bassassin]

Real Ricks: main difference between the 4001 & 4003 is the neck & truss rod system. 4001 necks are pretty delicate & really don't get on with high-tension roundwound strings, which ironically, are what sound best on a 4001. The truss rods cannot be adjusted as one would adjust any other truss rod - and attempting to do so can cause massive damage to the neck. Hence there were many 4001s with massively damaged necks, and after several decades of this, it occurred to someone at Rickenbacker to update the rod design & beef things up a bit. Presumably once they'd got the heresy trial out of the way, this happened and the 4003, with a somewhat more robust neck appeared.

Pretty much everything else about the 4003 is exactly the same as most 4001 versions, they look the same, sound the same* and as much as any 2 Ricks can, feel the same.

*Pre '84 Ricks have a capacitor in the bridge pup circuit which boosts the treble and is responsible for the classic "clank". Many players bypassed or removed this & it was discontinued until 2006. Subsequent Ricks have the cap in a switchable circuit.

JapCrap copies: which one's best is very much a moot point and really depends on how well they've fared over the years. With the possible exception of the Korean-made Hondo, there really weren't any cheap & nasty Rick copies, however they were all regarded as throwaway back in the day, and many have been abused. They're fairly delicate instruments to start with so it's not unusual to find damage/delamination at neck-body joints, which because of the way the basses are built can be a major, and often irreparable problem.

The huge majority of Fakers have ended up with their original branded truss rod covers replaced with Rick ones, so there's not a lot of point really in talking about different brands & factories and the differences between them - there are probably at least 20 different copies & variations knocking around and they can be quite tricky to identify. It's also the case that the most popular colours are natural & fireglo - black ones do turn up but they're not too common.

Even in these cash-strapped times, expect to pay £400 - £500 for a Jap copy in good original condition.

To be honest, if what you want is a Rick-type bass, and you're not too picky about absolute authenticity, you might be better off considering one of the current ones - the Anniversary & Rockinbetter branded ones are good instruments, by all accounts and pretty cosmetically accurate. A fair bit cheaper, too.

Jon.

[Soloshchenko]

I don't suppose there is a good answer to 2 as it all depends on condition and especially what state the neck is in. Plenty of decent, fairly faithful Rick copies have horrible and rather difficult to adjust actions and as such they are pretty useless. Lots of companies such as Ibanez, CMI, Cimar and Greco made excellent copies (and I'm only scratching the surface).

As far as authentic goes, it depends whether you mean in terms of appearence or construction. There are lots of bolt on neck versions and more faithful thru neck ones. Some like like CMI look very similar to Ricks whereas an Ibanez has a very different look due to the pickups.

Check this out for a few images of the differences:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=623072&page=3"]Talkbass Rick thread[/url]

[Cat Burrito]

A lot of the copies are good but the originals are great. I just got rid of my 4003 & it was / is a fantastic bass - I just decided I was a Fender player & couldn't justify keepimg such an expensive bit of kit for occasional studio work. The prices seem to have come down second hand with the recession. The new / current ones are great but then I like the vintage mojo of the 4001s too